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Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

311 点作者 gbarc888将近 8 年前

30 条评论

naturalgradient将近 8 年前
What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people.<p>I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian.<p>Not the Tweeters shaking with anger and demanding for him to get fired.<p>Not the Ex-Google guy with his medium rant about how people would punch him in the face and he would understand.<p>Not the diversity officer reaffirming the commitment to diversity in a dystopian way.<p>It is scary, it really is. We have all grown up learning about regimes like this, we are all aware, yet seemingly nobody can help themselves.
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eco将近 8 年前
&gt; Media outlets like TechCrunch, Gizmodo and Motherboard jumped on board to declare the memo an “Anti-Diversity Manifesto.” It appears that the ideological echo chamber extends beyond Google’s campus.<p>As I look up and see this article flagged on HN (since unflagged).<p>The points and ideas from his memo may be wrong or they may be right (or anywhere in between) but more important than this incident has been the reaction to it. I don&#x27;t understand the attempts at shutting down conversation about it. If you think he&#x27;s wrong, you share your opinion and persuade others. You don&#x27;t shut down the conversation and pretend the issues don&#x27;t exist.
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ithilglin909将近 8 年前
Here, here. I’m a software engineer who happens to be a woman. Mr. Damore&#x27;s piece didn’t offend me at all. There were parts I agreed with and parts I didn’t agree with. I’m more bothered by Google’s response(s) which seemed to reveal an incredible lack of critical reading ability, and far more disturbed by the levels of harshly enforced group-think that seem to increasingly dominate supposedly intelligent circles.
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throwa34943way将近 8 年前
The problem here is the people assuming &quot;diversity&quot; means actual diversity.<p>Just like &quot;inclusiveness&quot; or &quot;safe space&quot;. They do not mean what most people unaware of the political use of these expressions mean. These expressions are politically loaded.<p>The confusion is orchestrated, on purpose, by the ideologues who redefined these words. Who can say he is against diversity? inclusiveness? safe-spaces, off course people want to be safe! these are positive words. Until you actually understand that a safe space isn&#x27;t a physical safe space but a ideological safe space, where dissidence is prohibited.<p>For the &quot;ignorant&quot;, they mean one thing, for the ideologues, they have a complete different meaning.<p>I too was completely fooled by the post-modernist double speak and engaged in the attack of the people who were against these &quot;concepts&quot;, I too engaged in witch-hunts, before I truly understood how these words were politically loaded and didn&#x27;t mean what I thought they meant. It is extremely subtle and cunning. Redefinition of words is an extremely effective and manipulative weapon.<p>People say, well, keep politics out of work and you&#x27;ll be fine. But if the internal rules at work use expressions such as diversity, inclusiveness or safe-space, these are politically loaded at first place! your work environment IS adopting the intersectional ideological framework.
sidlls将近 8 年前
What&#x27;s more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?
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jshevek将近 8 年前
&quot;If the goal was to confirm Damore&#x27;s thesis, Team Google is doing a great job.&quot;<p>Yes, indeed.<p>This is something we, as a culture, need to look at more carefully.
blfr将近 8 年前
Has he set Google up for this blowup or do Americans just usually have complaints to federal regulators written and ready to send?<p><i>Before being fired, Mr. Damore said, he had submitted a complaint to the National Labor Relations Board claiming that Google’s upper management was “misrepresenting and shaming me in order to silence my complaints.” He added that it was “illegal to retaliate” against an N.L.R.B. charge.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;07&#x2F;business&#x2F;google-women-engineer-fired-memo.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;07&#x2F;business&#x2F;google-women-eng...</a>
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gobugat将近 8 年前
&gt; &quot;Companies don’t have viewpoints.&quot;<p>They do. Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Many would want to think that these issues are apolitical, or scientific, or anything &quot;neutral&quot;. They are not.<p>Make no mistake. This is a fight. A struggle between two visions of the world, maybe more. Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. Sooner or later, one must take a stand, which is exactly what Google executives just did.
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rwcarlsen将近 8 年前
Here is a link to the guy&#x27;s original memo (with all his references that have been removed from much popular media coverage of its content): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;assets.documentcloud.org&#x2F;documents&#x2F;3914586&#x2F;Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;assets.documentcloud.org&#x2F;documents&#x2F;3914586&#x2F;Googles-I...</a><p>You should read it before you draw any conclusions. Although I don&#x27;t necessarily agree with everything he says (and how he says it), he does make some interesting points in a way that I would hope can promote constructive discussion. I definitely don&#x27;t think he should have been fired <i>just</i> for the memo - maybe there is more to the story? - or maybe he shouldn&#x27;t have been fired?
jorgemf将近 8 年前
I find it funny he was fired by &quot;promoting gender stereotypes&quot; when what he wants it to evaluate each individual without taking account any stereotype. And then Google has policies for increasing the minority diversity (like helping women to get in tech). Just the fact you have programs target for specific demographics supports the fact that there are &quot;gender stereotypes&quot;. Not to mention all the analytics tools that split the population by gender.<p>I would find more helpful if companies have programs to increase the tolerance and respect inside the company. Because the problem of sexims or racism are not the women or the black people, the problem is the people with prejudices. Adding to the company people of minorities is useless if the internal culture is a shit. At some point they will leave the company. I think Google made a step in the wrong direction and promote a worse culture with this action. People now will not talk about issues afraid of getting fired, even when they do it with respect.
trequartista将近 8 年前
Google is in a no-win situation here. Fire the guy - get these kind of reactions about not listening to opposing voices. Not fire the guy - incendiary reactions from the general public.<p>If Google had not fired the guy, a large majority of women (and men) in Google wouldn&#x27;t want this guy (as brilliant as he may be) in their teams - that would create an unnecessarily hostile and uncomfortable workplace.
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danschumann将近 8 年前
It&#x27;s hard to say things that can easily be misconstrued. The wage gap: guess what, women don&#x27;t take high paying dangerous oil rigging jobs. Men suffer 90% of workplace deaths. Those deaths are high paying. It&#x27;s unpopular, because it sucks, but it&#x27;s true, so lets not tabloid-ize it.<p>The same people saying there is a wage gap are saying that every rich person is too greedy. So, if they&#x27;re greedy and only care about money, why wouldn&#x27;t they hire only women? They can pay women less and they only care about money. Are they saying that the only things ceos care about more than money is men? Doesn&#x27;t add up.<p>This is a single issue, a single &quot;one liner&quot; that won&#x27;t die. Remember the old story &quot;if you flash your headlights at a certain gang, they&#x27;ll follow you and shoot you&quot;. Sometimes lies are more viral than the truth. It&#x27;s much easier to fool someone than convince them they&#x27;ve been fooled. It hurts to be told you were fooled, it feels fun to be a fool.
tevonsb将近 8 年前
I find it rather sad that, before writing this comment I had to reconsider what I wanted to say , because, as a young engineer, I am worried how my opinions will effect my job prospects.<p>When I am afraid to say what I believe, for fear or ramifications, it flies directly in the face of what Google and others profess to trying to do: &#x27;create a work environment in which all people, regardless of political affliation, opinion, or creed feels safe.&#x27;<p>The worst part for me, is that many in the valley (particularly on university campuses like Stanford&#x27;s) have used the disguise of promoting diversity to battle ideas they disagree with. There is not enough emphasis on diversity of ideas.
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grey-area将近 8 年前
<i>It’s worth noting that the author has a Ph.D. in systems biology from Harvard University.</i><p>This footnote is incorrect according to Harvard he never completed a PhD.
dangerlibrary将近 8 年前
Is any organization of meaningful size (# of employees, revenue, market cap - pick your metric) handling diversity issues in a way that completely satisfies the &quot;proportional representation of the population&quot; metric? Are there any success stories that one could use as case studies?
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tptacek将近 8 年前
This Bloomberg blog post doesn&#x27;t add anything more to the discussion of what happened than would any &gt;100 word comment, drawn at random from the biggest HN thread on this fiasco. All it&#x27;s doing here is giving us a license to pointlessly recapitulate the same debate we had yesterday and the day before.<p>Stuff like this is what the flag button on the site is for.
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macspoofing将近 8 年前
I am surprised how big this &#x27;manifesto&#x27; got. Is it really <i>that</i> big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from &quot;Head of Diversity&quot; and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more?<p>The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.
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positivity89将近 8 年前
Does no one see what&#x27;s happening? This whole thing is a massive sign of progress. Men are deeply scared of an increasingly growing population of female developers. This is a pretty significant moment of anxiety and fear. That&#x27;s good. It means there&#x27;s change. It&#x27;s no coincidence that more women are joining CS AP courses than ever before:<p>&quot;HIGH-SCHOOL GIRLS ARE taking more Advanced Placement computer engineering exams than ever before, according to a new report from Code.org and the College Board. In 2017, largely thanks to a new test aimed at expanding the reach of engineering classes, female participation in these AP tests increased at a faster rate than young boys’ participation on the exam in 2017.&quot;<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;ap-computer-science-2017&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;ap-computer-science-2017&#x2F;</a>
jungletime将近 8 年前
Apparently Jordan Peterson will have an interview with the google memo guy on his youtube channel today. Just curious how this will go down, since youtube already took down Jordan&#x27;s channel last week, before brining it back without explanation, fueling many conspiracy theories. Jordan is probably the first to layout a coherent logical, scientific argument against Identity Politics, that seems to have inspired the google memo.
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skylark将近 8 年前
I don&#x27;t have strong feelings about the original memo, but the media coverage has been an absolute circus.<p>Google&#x27;s hand was forced because of the negative PR storm that happened, not because it systematically suppresses the voices of its employees.<p>&gt; This algorithm is tuned by an internal team of evaluators. If the company silences dissent within its own ranks, why should we trust it to manage our access to information?<p>I&#x27;m almost convinced that this is satire.
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baccheion将近 8 年前
My time at Google many years ago led me to the conclusion that they are completely full of it. Many employees are repulsive, off-putting, and enjoy treating others like nothing. They also couldn&#x27;t care less about diversity.<p>Based on their diversity report, only ~200 (of ~20,000) software engineers are black, which is still likely an exaggeration, as I bet many are software engineers in test.
Mikeb85将近 8 年前
I&#x27;m glad that there&#x27;s still at least some truly liberal voices out there.<p>Regressive neo-liberalism is a cancer on society.<p>Edit - also sad that this keeps getting flagged. Dissenting opinions and debate is good for society.
tomohawk将近 8 年前
This guys mistake was thinking that his organization was interested in learning. Learning requires admitting you didn&#x27;t know something or that you were wrong about something. People who are in diversity leadership positions are often dogmatic, true believer types. The last thing they will tolerate is someone trying to tell them that the belief system on which their position is based might be faulty in some way.
dvfjsdhgfv将近 8 年前
I find it disturbing that they still link to the censored Gizmodo version. They should know better and use the original, either the PDF or <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;diversitymemo.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;diversitymemo.com&#x2F;</a>
neo4sure将近 8 年前
Wow so many hit pieces on how to tolerate sexism.
illuminati1911将近 8 年前
If companies&#x2F;people REALLY want to solve the diversity issue, we have to have open discussion and let even &quot;stupid&quot; opinions be openly shared&#x2F;discussed.<p>If you are right about something you don&#x27;t need to silence&#x2F;censor others. If you are not, then you do. The witch-hunt has to end.
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canoebuilder将近 8 年前
Who wants to discuss the suppression of content on HN?<p>163 pts in 37 mins, but flagged off the front page as soon as it appeared.<p>Does the number of flags required to trip the [flagged] trigger increase with the number of points and speed of those points on a story?<p>If not, why not?<p>Yes one could say rapid point accrual on a story of this nature is telling of a hot-button issue that and thus likely to create discussion not up to our desired standards.<p>But what I think is really being shown here is that this is an issue many feel is in much need of attention and the fact that a small group can just flag these so quickly when the rest of the community is saying this is important seems strange.
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caiob将近 8 年前
Wish I could paste that Michael Scott &quot;Thank You&quot; gif here.
Froyoh将近 8 年前
Oh the irony...
danharaj将近 8 年前
What else could Google have done? He made himself a visibly toxic employee to have on most teams. This might be weird to some people, but at work you have to work with other people, and while it may be OK to hold &lt;X&gt; belief in general, advocating for it at work can make it harder for you to work with others.<p>Abstract free speech crashes and burns in any situation where you can&#x27;t select your peers.
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