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China's Plan for World Domination in AI Isn't So Crazy

144 点作者 bipr0将近 8 年前

13 条评论

gkanai将近 8 年前
One of the prominent Chinese VCs, Neil Shen from Sequoia China, was on the Economist&#x27;s podcast recently talking about AI in China. When the host asked Shen about the Chinese state&#x27;s use of AI in monitoring the citizens of China, Shen clammed up. It is an amazing bit of audio (starts around minute 8.)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acast.com&#x2F;theeconomistasks&#x2F;theeconomistasks-howdoyouwintheairace-" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acast.com&#x2F;theeconomistasks&#x2F;theeconomistasks-howd...</a>
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lispm将近 8 年前
&gt; The government also revealed in 2015 that it was building a nationwide database that would score citizens on their trustworthiness, which in turn would feed into their credit ratings<p>The wet dream of an authoritarian government.
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l5870uoo9y将近 8 年前
The advantages that the article claims China has aren&#x27;t unattainable for the West, but it does – as with other political issues — require new political movement that allows us to change our society to benefit from vast opportunities that technology brings and to avoid the dangers. China&#x27;s ruthless pragmatism and decisiveness highlights the lack of political leadership and visions in the West. And those political movements we have are of little use, be it right or left.
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joe_the_user将近 8 年前
Well, on the actual topic...<p>China&#x27;s state may have a huge store of data but it seems fairly likely they will want to heavily restrict who gets access to this data - secrecy is the other side of surveillance.<p>Similarly, AI in the West seems to have advanced a lot by having open research sharing and a high level of intellectual integrity. China&#x27;s authoritarian state seems to often encourage poor research - not that all science is bad in China but there&#x27;s a lot of news about a lot of bad science there. Ironically, a lack of openness can make cheating more common (a Chinese team was caught cheating in AI challenge recently, just for example though of course these aren&#x27;t necessarily restricted to China).<p>Also, the Internet is a huge store of data, imagenet is pulled from the Internet. Other huge data sources are youtube and so-on. Maybe all the data a huge surveillance state captures would be a good source but that just seems like one dimension in a multidimensional competition where the rest of the dimensions might not be in favor of Chinese efforts.
georgeecollins将近 8 年前
In the 1980&#x27;s Japan had a &quot;fifth generation&quot; computer project which was a huge commitment to AI. AI appeals as a project for governments and large organizations (IBM) that want to direct goals from the top down. It is difficult to do, understandable as a goal, and could in theory serve many purposes.
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peter303将近 8 年前
I have been around enough to remember a similar A.I. hype in the 1980s involving Japan, expert systems, and logic (Prolog) supercomputers. This time it is China, deep learning, and deep learning accelerator hardware.<p>The 1980s was a commercial failure, but expert systems never really went away. One interesting project was Cyc a massive comon sense rule system, sort of like a thesarus; now into its 4th decade. Another is IBM&#x27; Watson which is a hybrid of rules and statistical large data.<p>The difference this time is that deep learning appears to work in some cases and getting fast enough to operate in real time. One application is environmental object classification for self driving vehicles. The deep learning systems do as well as explicit algoritms and are easier to program. Secondly, I saw some papers at the recent SIGGRAPH where they replace procedural portions of graphics flows with deep learning and obtain good results. Whether deep learning can solve every problem under the Sun as some hypers claim is undetermined.
low_battery将近 8 年前
Ah China and AI.. Just remembered this nice piece of paper: Automated Inference on Criminality using Face Images, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;1611.04135v2.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;1611.04135v2.pdf</a><p>At best they will become an Orwellian nightmare then they currently are, World domination? Please...
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AndrewKemendo将近 8 年前
I&#x27;m of the mind that China has the best shot at building AGI in the near future for the exact reason that if they choose to, they can mandate collection and processing of vast amounts of user data.<p>They also have a pretty amazing group of ML developers, even if they haven&#x27;t made the most public progress or had as much notoriety as Bengio, Russell, Lecun et al.<p>One thing I find striking is that Ng left Baidu with very little discussion of why given how much progress they had been making. It&#x27;s possible that he felt his role was to start and grow the Baidu AI enterprise and then move on. However I would speculate that Baidu was increasingly collaborating with the CPC and he might have not wanted to be as heavily involved in that, given that he is more Western, being raised in London and was Hong Kongese rather than culturally Han.
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agibsonccc将近 8 年前
Hi, I&#x27;m actually one of the vendors involved with the healthcare project mentioned<p>in the article (my cofounder is quoted)<p>If you are curious about anything, AMA.<p>More info below: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15016850" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15016850</a>
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TypedInt将近 8 年前
&gt; Historically, the country has been a lightweight in those regards. It’s suffered through a &quot;brain drain,&quot; a flight of academics and specialists out of the country<p>Wouldn&#x27;t it be crazy if a brain drain from the west to Asia arised?
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jorblumesea将近 8 年前
I wonder how you contest the classification of &quot;dissident&quot; if it&#x27;s generated by a ML algo?
thinkfurther将近 8 年前
Of course it&#x27;s crazy. Just like the guy on HN who told me they have to build AGI in the shadows because people just wouldn&#x27;t understand, and with the other corner of their mouth talked about how &quot;we&quot; should go into &quot;oblivion&quot; peacefully once AGI makes us obsolete, is crazy. High-functioning, probably a model citizen who helps the elderly across the street, but still batshit insane on the level where push comes to shove.<p>&gt; <i>The whole concept of alienation found its first expression in Western thought in the Old Testament concept of idolatry. The essence of what the prophets call &quot;idolatry&quot; is not that man worships many gods instead of only one. It is that the idols are the work of man&#x27;s own hands -- they are things, and man bows down and worships things; worships that which he has created himself. In doing so he transforms himself into a thing. He transfers to the things of his creation the attributes of his own life, and instead of experiencing himself as the creating person, he is in touch with himself only by the worship of the idol. He has become estranged from his own life forces, from the wealth of his own potentialities, and is in touch with himself only in the indirect way of submission to life frozen in the idols. The deadness and emptiness of the idol is expressed in the Old Testament: &quot;Eyes they have and they do not see, ears they have and they do not hear,&quot; etc. The more man transfers his own powers to the idols, the poorer he himself becomes, and the more dependent on the idols, so that they permit him to redeem a small part of what was originally his. The idols can be a godlike figure, the state, the church, a person, possessions. Idolatry changes its objects; it is by no means to be found only in those forms in which the idol has a so-called religious meaning. Idolatry is always the worship of something into which man has put his own creative powers, and to which he now submits, instead of experiencing himself in his creative act.</i><p>-- Erich Fromm, who also said<p>&gt; <i>The fact that millions of people share the same vices does not make these vices virtues, the fact that they share so many errors does not make the errors to be truths, and the fact that millions of people share the same form of mental pathology does not make these people sane.</i>
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davidreiss将近 8 年前
Why is it that every article about china reads like a propaganda piece. &quot;World domination&quot;? Was our investment in AI about &quot;world domination&quot; also?<p>It is strange how propaganda spins the narrative about the same thing so differently.<p>Anyone know if chinese media&#x2F;propaganda does the same thing in regards to the west? Do they say &quot;America or Europe&#x27;s plan for world domination in AI Isn&#x27;t So Crazy?&quot;.