Why a Universal Basic Income Would Be a Calamity

Though I don&#x27;t agree with all of it, the article makes some valid points on the social problems that may erupt from UBI.<p>I suspect that reason UBI has the following it does today is because it&#x27;s socialism dressed in a funny mask. &quot;Hey, no socialism here! Private industry still does everything! The money to pay for it all just happens to come from large taxes on the super rich&quot;. The left like it because it&#x27;s socialism, the right like it because the government doesn&#x27;t do very much at all except distribute the wealth.<p>I tend to argue instead for actual socialism over UBI. Socialized health care, public education, infrastructure, etc. Once you stop presuming the government <i>can&#x27;t</i> do anything well, you start to see real possibilities.<p>(Bias: Canadian, enjoying my relatively efficient and effective health care system and public education)

The article doesn&#x27;t give me any convincing arguments against UBI.<p>The author uses Saudi Arabia as an example as a country with UBI that works badly. First of all, I have no intimate with if there is any implementation. The author does not provide any sources, so that&#x27;s not much help. A cursory Google search leads me to doubt this claim [1]. The author claims &gt;50% unemployment in the country, again doubtful [2].<p>Then, the article states that proponents of a UBI claim that it allows people to self-improve and take risks, equating this with a transition from a low skilled worker to a high skilled one, which seems a far stretch. Of course automation removes low skilled jobs; but more training does not automagically turn everyone into PhDs with un-automateable jobs.<p>Then there are even more wild claims about it leading to a demise of the American democracy, where I don&#x27;t even begin to see how the author came up with it.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;Is-Saudi-Arabia-an-implementation-of-basic-income" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;Is-Saudi-Arabia-an-implementation-of-b...</a><p>2: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aljazeera.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;07&#x2F;saudi-arabia-unemployment-rate-climbs-127-percent-170730163025234.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aljazeera.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;07&#x2F;saudi-arabia-unemploym...</a>

Using Saudi Arabia as an argument against UBI is like using Somalia as an argument against libertarianism -- oil money or lack of government oversight are not the problems there.

Right to vote was disconnected from financial contribution in the western countries quite explicitly by the implementation of general suffrage roughly a century ago, where it usually replaced capital, class and gender based limitations. It would be quite a political throwback to reverse on this. Granted, the political shift was in part to pacify and commit critical industrial workers to the established financial order, but was driven in part by the general humanistic spirit.

- Money already rules politics and we have to fight for true democracy either way<p>- Most people are not egomanic workaholic persuing their carreer and don&#x27;t need the job as a centor of life and pride. Why not let them play video games or do sports or anything they want?<p>- Isn&#x27;t automation able to replace the booring jobs?<p>- Nerds still want to play with tech, give them 15h work weeks and some good pay and they will keep doing their job. High payed professionals today also would not have to work much for the equivalent ammount of money that UBI would give them and yet they still work.<p>---<p>What I really wonder:<p>- if an inflation would happen<p>- how many are really incapable of finding purpose for themselves (I think most will do very fine, even if they just play video games with friends)<p>- if a country stays competetive with other more exploitive countries<p>- how much we&#x27;d have to pay people doing shitjobs so they stay attractive enough and if this is realistic to do

Alternative link: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;luxlibertas.com&#x2F;why-a-universal-basic-income-would-be-a-calamity&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;luxlibertas.com&#x2F;why-a-universal-basic-income-would-be...</a>

All the warm, fuzzy pro UBI articles gush about how tech giants are generously willing to support UBI in the face of jobs going away. They then paint glowing pictures of how useful that money will be for underpaid workers doing &quot;good work,&quot; like teachers and social workers.<p>They never go into how bleak a dystopian future we are talking about if large numbers of jobs that pay $20k-$50k or so disappear and now you have to live on $10k-$20k with little or no hope of ever getting a job again while inflation steadily erodes the real value of your UBI. Glad to see one article exploring that (dystopian view), though it fails to mention this aspect of UBI.<p>We need to resolve the widespread lack of affordable housing in the US and we need to fix our broken healthcare system. That would give ordinary people substantial relief.

Sure, but it&#x27;s the only way I can conceive of offsetting the effects of automation and AI. If there are no jobs then capitalism will essentially break. Only the extremely skilled and technical workers will be able to find jobs and the wealth disparity will grow to previously unimagined proportions. What is the alternative? There are literally no solutions in this article.

I was skeptical about UBI until listening to michael munger&#x27;s interview about it on econtalk<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econtalk.org&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2017&#x2F;01&#x2F;michael_munger_3.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econtalk.org&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2017&#x2F;01&#x2F;michael_munger_3.ht...</a><p>I think one of the biggest flaws of capitalism is the assumption that those are the bottom of the pile are rational economic actors, when in fact they often have factors like substance abuse problems, low iq, disability, miserable abusive upbringings, etc which prevent them from making smart decisions or functioning at the level required to get ahead in a competitive capitalist system. We can afford to, and are morally obligated to look after them. A starter UBI is a great way to do that. It also opens the door for employers to pay these people low wages, which can help them get a leg up in the job market, without risking losing benefits. Eg. a really low intelligence person sweeping floors for $2.50 an hour is moral when they get a reasonable UBI &amp; if taxation of corporations and wealthy individuals means they get healthcare and education for their kids etc.<p>So overall, socialism for the people at the bottom of society, and capitalism for the people with a high enough level of function to be able to thrive under that system.

The embrace of UBI seems entirely too eager for many. It&#x27;s as if the huge, unpredictable and ambitious nature of it isn&#x27;t fully felt. Attempts to refactor giant economies according to high modern ideals has been tried to disastrous results, and it is completely valid to bring this up. Most disasters for which the UBI is supposed to handle aren&#x27;t even particularly present yet, and may be mirages.

<i>How long before the elites decide the unemployed underclass shouldn’t have the right to vote?</i><p>It&#x27;s really hard to justify the time investment in reading a piece that starts off with an implausible scare tactic like this.<p>One can only expect it to go downhill from there.

Does anybody have a link to the complete article, I&#x27;d like to read it.<p>And who is Dan Nidess? I don&#x27;t know a whole lot about economics, but I do know that semi-knowledgeable people like myself are usually wrong about economic issues.

The universal right to vote is likely among the few things preventing the citizenries from violently overthrowing their governments. A right to vote provides at least an illusory hope of changing a government from within. Take that away, and you&#x27;ll be lighting a fuse leading straight to revolution (of a likely-violent nature).

Governance had become too complicated already, people with higher knowledge in governing and econ should have higher vote weight.

Paywall. What is their proposed alternative?

Usual problem. If automation is taking jobs then why does the retirement age keep going up?<p>Because the simplest solution that works is to progressively lower the retirement age.<p>It never happens does it because that would be a burden on the workers.<p>And that&#x27;s because the problem has nothing to do with automation and money. The problem is that we are a reciprocating species. If you want the carrots I&#x27;ve grown then I need to see you do something of social value and benefit to me before I&#x27;ll let you have any.<p>Hiding behind the money illusion doesn&#x27;t fool people for long. You bought what I laboured to produce <i>and</i> you spent time on the Xbox. So you consumed my time and yours. That&#x27;s seen as unfair and rightly so.<p>Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth. What we need is a social system that ensures everybody can make that rent.<p>And for that we need a Job Guarantee not a hand out.