Heh? The Docker company line seems to be that Swarm has been and will continue to be faster-evolving than Kubernetes. That feels really disconnected from reality. For one, the ground-up rethink of Swarm that happened last year felt mostly like an attempted to rebase Swarm on more Kubernetes-like ideas. Further, the specific example given in the podcast seems to be factually incorrect: The Docker guy says that secrets are an example of something that was added to Swarm first and then later added to Kubernetes. However, Kubernetes had support for secrets in its 1.0 release all the way back in 2015, while Swarm just added secret support in February.