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The Hungarian Approach and How It Fits the American Educational Landscape (2015)

174 点作者 _culy超过 7 年前

13 条评论

loriverkutya超过 7 年前
As a hungarian, I&#x27;m pretty surprised by this article, since the quality of hungarian education is getting worse and worse, thanks to the &quot;reforms&quot;, which basically means they are spending less and less on education on all level. And however in the past, math education was world class, now the &quot;old school&quot; teachers are retiring and other than a handful of elite schools (Fazekas, Eötvös, Radnóti etc) most of the schools are way below the european average.<p>(source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.compareyourcountry.org&#x2F;pisa&#x2F;country&#x2F;hun" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.compareyourcountry.org&#x2F;pisa&#x2F;country&#x2F;hun</a> )<p>Also usually only one or two hungarian university manage to get to any of the &quot;best 500 universities in the world&quot; list.
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leni536超过 7 年前
I would like to point out two of my favorite high school competitions in Hungary.<p>One is KöMaL [1]. It&#x27;s a monthly journal, one has to send back solutions to the problems. The competition is during the whole school year. It has problems from math, physics and computer science, these are separate contests. I did the &quot;P&quot; (theoretical physics) competition. Sometimes I took a look for the &quot;B&quot; math problems and I could never solve a single &quot;A&quot; math problem, those are freaking insane.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.komal.hu&#x2F;info&#x2F;miazakomal.e.shtml" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.komal.hu&#x2F;info&#x2F;miazakomal.e.shtml</a><p>The second competition is the Eötvös Physics Competition [2]. Unfortunately the problems are not translated to English. This is a single round competition for the whole country. There are three physics problems fitting on a piece of A4 paper (single sided). The students can use anything (any number of books, calculator), the competition is 5 hours long. All high school and first year university students participate in the same contest. It&#x27;s designed to filter out the very best physics students in the whole country (typically only one or two students can fully solve all three problems).<p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;eik.bme.hu&#x2F;~vanko&#x2F;fizika&#x2F;eotvos.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;eik.bme.hu&#x2F;~vanko&#x2F;fizika&#x2F;eotvos.htm</a>
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niftich超过 7 年前
I took my first eight years of math in Hungary; admittedly, some time ago. Though I&#x27;m not sure if things have changed since then, or were different at higher levels, the way the article describes it very much reflected my experience. Starting out, there was a balanced mix of rote learning the basics (as it was done in other subjects), then moving towards creativity and gradual, independent rediscovery, and it was done so in a way that didn&#x27;t feel stifling if you somehow knew to do it a different way.<p>Ultimately it&#x27;s a small country; there was a math bee you could compete in at a local level, and then your district would send the best representatives to the countrywide event. It was a prestigious event, and pretty stressful, but ultimately fun. The questions asked at the national competition were always really oddball and obscure and required both creativity and judicious use of everything you&#x27;ve learned.<p>Come think of it, the culture of the competitions in various subjects made school really fun.<p>Some other aspects of my primary school education in Hungary were not so stellar. In other subjects, there was very much a focus on facts in isolation, without really understanding or delving into context, notably in History. Literature I also found limiting, as much emphasis was placed on poetry analysis, which I found to be subjective; nonetheless, diverging from commonly accepted analyses was did not result in a good mark. When I came to the US, I found an emphasis on critical thinking in the Humanities, which was a breath of fresh air.<p>But in math and science, the quality and method of instruction in Hungary was top-notch.
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gizmo686超过 7 年前
I would to see this approach applied more in the sciences as well.<p>I my college syntax (linguistics) class, most of the teaching was done by the teacher giving us a (carefully curated) set of data to explain as homework.<p>Class time was spent making sure everyone got to the same answer and understood the arguments behind it. When there are multiple reasonable answers, they also made sure that students understand the other ones and why we rejected them (sometimes the reason is as simple as &#x27;we need to pick an answer, lets just vote&#x27;; other times it is &#x27;both are reasonable explanations, the field went with B, read Chomsky 1987 if you want to know why.&#x27;). We would then generally talk about problems we still have (especially if the data was English, and students could come up with new data that didn&#x27;t work as nicely).
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maksimum超过 7 年前
&gt; After the student investigation, the teacher highlights important ideas embedded in a concrete problem, and summarizes and generalizes their findings. In particular, the teacher’s summary makes sense and is meaningful, because students have had the experience of playing around with these ideas on their own before coming together to formalize them as a class.<p>It&#x27;s important for students to get their hands on examples and play with the ideas we&#x27;re trying to present on their own. One issue I have is that this takes so much time. If you&#x27;re introducing concepts that the students don&#x27;t have good intuition about, you have to go so slowly. Even then it feels like some students can&#x27;t follow.<p>I think it&#x27;s beneficial when it&#x27;s possible to get students to engage with the material on a daily basis as reading or homework. Hard to do when they&#x27;re expected to take 4 classes (college) or 6-8 (high school) and dedicate study time to each of them.
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jonsen超过 7 年前
Math is much more than what I was taught in school. I discovered that as a child when stumbling upon this Hungarian math book at the local library:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Playing-Infinity-Dover-Books-Mathematics-ebook&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B00A73IWVY&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Playing-Infinity-Dover-Books-Mathemat...</a>
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chx超过 7 年前
Let&#x27;s make this very clear: this is <i>not</i> a typical Hungarian approach. This is what Fazekas and to an extent a few more similar specialized high schools do. The typical Hungarian approach is frontal instruction with no respect to the learning speed differences.<p>Source: Personal experience. I am a Fazekas alumni and have a Hungarian maths teachers masters as well. I am bankrolling a very small reform school in Hungary so I am in contact with current Hungarian teachers every day and also I am obviously very interested in what&#x27;s going on so I read a lot.
karllager超过 7 年前
A friend of mine enjoyed her first years in school in the Pannonian basin; I am not sure, whether they did something special - but it was enough to get her into a selective German high-school specialised in maths and sciences later in her life. Always admired her for the experience, as she repeatedly speak of it if it has been fun and games.
chatmasta超过 7 年前
My high school did something similar [0]. We never had math textbooks, only a book of problems. Each night we had 10 problems we had to solve. When we showed up in class the next day, each student would present a problem on the board and discuss their solution.<p>It worked well for the really disciplined, rigorous kids who were super interested in math and already had a solid background in it. But for someone like me, who never quite did all the homework, it became a game of getting to class first so I could present the one problem I did last night.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Harkness_table" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Harkness_table</a>
otakucode超过 7 年前
There were 2 documentaries produced by famed documentarian Frederick Wiseman called High School and High School 2. In one, a group of average students are followed through a typical high school in a middle class predominantly white area. In the second one, a group of students are followed through an experimental high school in a predominantly impoverished area with mostly a Latino population. The &#x27;experimental&#x27; nature of the school was that every single class, every last one, was completely restructured to center around one thing: critical thinking. Teaching by fiat (&#x27;this is how it is because I say so and I am the authority&#x27;) was banned. Every bit of teaching was through asking questions and having them answered, students challenging teachers on an equal intellectual playing field (unequal in specific knowledge of course, but equal in capacity to reason and challenge assumptions).<p>The experimental school produced the highest proportion of students to go on to receive college degrees (not just attend college, but finish) every seen in the country. The results were absolutely amazing and tremendously good. But... it&#x27;s harder for teachers to teach that way. They can&#x27;t plan ahead. They have to know their subjects inside and out, not just read off of a lesson plan. If a student asks a question that the teacher can&#x27;t answer, the teacher has to admit it and try to figure it out with them, which many teachers are not emotionally mature enough to participate in alongside an adolescent. It gives a great deal of power and agency to adolescents, and our society is obsessed with stripping adolescents of every iota of control over their own life and denigrating them as much as possible. So widespread adoption of such schooling cannot gain much support at all.<p>The documentaries also did a good job showing how the &quot;traditional&quot; schooling methods broke the &#x27;spirit&#x27; of adolescents and sucked the love of learning and figuring things out right out of them, turning them into disinterested husks of human beings, while the experimental school left them as vibrantly full of a love of life and learning as they entered it. Such things are of course difficult to measure and generally distrusted by our &quot;pleasure is a sure sign of hidden dangers&quot; mentality.
AJRF超过 7 年前
I&#x27;m not &quot;bad&quot; at math per se, but would there be much benefit in going from the ground up learning in the Hungarian form?<p>I guess you could blow through the first 7~10 years of schooling in less than a year of dedicated study, but teaching yourself just up to before college level would take you a few years, right?<p>Is there any online courses that have this content?
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tioga超过 7 年前
I grew up and studied math in Hungary and graduated from Fazekas, the school mentioned in the atricle, and its &quot;special math&quot; high school class. I also spent a year in high school in the US so I have some basis for comparison.<p>My experience was pretty much exactly as described in the article as well and I am forever grateful for the school and my teachers for giving me a foundation I could build on later in life. I&#x27;d like to point out a few things though, others have already touched upon some of these:<p>First, similar to why it&#x27;s hard to replicate the Silicon Valley startup model elsewhere (or at least why it takes such a long time), the issue is somewhat similar here. The method of teaching is just one part of the equation. It was a whole &quot;ecosystem&quot; of fantastically knowledgable and respected teachers who could anywhere else be university professors or researchers, publications (such as KoMaL), camps, competitions and other extracurricular activities aimed at elementary and high school students, and a culture of math and science being interesting and fun vs. the stereotypical hard and boring.<p>The way of teaching feels a little bit more of a consequence of this culture rather than the source. You can pick your own preferred origin story for how that culture emerged: a booming industrial economy in the age of the Austro-Hungarian empire, a multi-ethnic, liberal (in the original sense of the word and given the context) country, the migration and resulting concentration of Jews in Budapest, or a series of exceptional teachers and mentors. The highly visible world-wide successes in the first half of the 20th century then later provided an on-going narrative that benefited the national ethos and hence made plenty of funding available in the second half (conveniently forgetting the austro-hungarian, the economic boom, the liberal or the jewish part of the story). But in any case the culture and the support system is (or at least was) there and that one is very hard to replicate at a broad scale, although certainly easier within specific communities. As someone mentioned, even in Hungary it is not broadly present and is limited to a certain set of top schools.<p>Also, there is a flip side to this story. Personally, I really liked math before going to high school and completely lost interest by the time I finished. Partly because a lot of kids around me were much better so I felt like a failure, partly because I was more interested in computers and programming and also in finance, all of which was looked down upon. The prestige of winning a programming competition was nowhere near the same as placing well in math or physics. Working as a developer on the side was considered a distraction. I think this was for the better for me personally. A decent number of my classmates got burnt out and had severe depressions due to the pressure. You were almost expected to win a gold medal at the International Olympiad and eventually become a world-wide math celebrity. I can&#x27;t shake the feeling that a lot of them &quot;peaked&quot; at the end of high school, although perhaps that&#x27;s partly the result of the rapidly declining university system.<p>Again, I&#x27;m very grateful for what I got but it&#x27;s more in terms creative thinking and problem solving than specific math skills. In fact, I got to learn other subjects, such as history and literature through the same method which I now realize is very unusual in a country where those subjects are usually heavily biased toward insitilling a national identity as opposed to fostering independent thinking.
kvch_超过 7 年前
For some reason I never knew that Hungarian Maths teaching is so outstanding. My high school teacher who came from Romania to Hungary always told us that he learned topics much earlier than we did. For example he learned equitations in grade 5 and we learn them in grade 7. So I figured that Romania must be better at teaching Maths.<p>Having gone through all levels of Maths in Hungary, from elementary school until BSc of university, I want to point out that this method sounds good as long as the teacher is able to keep the attention of the class. In my school, a few teachers were unable to do that and it was a disaster. Children were playing, talking and doing nothing in classes. Even preventing others from learning the material. Fortunately, I have never had these kind of teachers. However, if someone did they were doomed at university, because the expectations were too high for them. So I think it is quite a big disadvantage in Hungary. If you miss out in high school, because you were busy being a rebellious teen, there is a good chance that you never make it. You only realize it after you started university, because it is pretty easy to get into science courses of top universities in Hungary and very hard to actually graduate.