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How Evil Is Tech?

174 点作者 monsieurpng超过 7 年前

30 条评论

mephitix超过 7 年前
My humble, personal opinion that I have been reluctant to share:<p>I am embarrassed by what has become of some parts of the industry I love. For as much as Silicon Valley professes that it wants to &quot;make the world a better place&quot;, you can also find<p>- social media websites that feed on people&#x27;s addictions, almost forcing them to post and share as much as they can instead of simply enjoying moments in their lives.<p>- the proliferation of fake news; this one stings a lot. When I was younger the internet seemed like such an incredible learning tool. Many years later, walled gardens driven by algorithms intent on feeding narcissistic tendencies allow people to fall deeply into their own confirmation bias. This is a kind of &#x27;anti-learning&#x27; that has developed out of FUD that is only getting propagated throughout all these social networks.<p>- big tech companies where employees are sold on &quot;making the world a better place&quot; but instead become completely dependent on attaining fake labels like &quot;senior engineer&quot; - and yet have never actually talked to a single user.<p>- games that are no longer fun, but are now environments deliberately set up to trap users in their own Skinner Boxes, pulling levers and pushing buttons to open loot boxes that slowly drain out their bank accounts<p>- the outright denial of many people in the tech industry that any of the above is a problem. Simply read through the comments on this HN page. Identifying that any of these things are problems is the first step in fixing them.
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blfr超过 7 年前
The social atomization trend in the west began long before facebooks and googles even existed, before the Internet was available to the general public. They, and Facebook in particular, probably aren&#x27;t helping but they didn&#x27;t cause it either.<p>What bothers me the most about these tech giants is the complete about face on free speech. Companies that couldn&#x27;t exist without it, that couldn&#x27;t have been founded without the open web (Google) and belief in freedom of communication (Twitter), as bastions of free speech (Reddit) are now busy coming up with new ways to censor their users. This is part of their progressive culture mentioned in the OP but a very specific one.<p>I don&#x27;t know how many people still care but this is how they lost all my goodwill towards them.
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lacker超过 7 年前
If you got all your information from this article you would be surprised that, for example, 82% of Americans have a favorable view of Google. It&#x27;s like the old school media is trying to manufacture negative opinions of the new school.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnet.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;googles-approval-ratings-best-apple-facebook-twitter&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnet.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;googles-approval-ratings-best-appl...</a>
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KKKKkkkk1超过 7 年前
We&#x27;ve been seeing this type of articles from the New York Times on an almost daily basis recently. Given that the New York Times considers Facebook, Google and Apple as direct threats to its business model, I think the use of words like &quot;evil&quot; in this context is an insult to their readers&#x27; intelligence.
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confounded超过 7 年前
Using the word “tech” to describe the business practices of unregulated monopolies is really starting to grind on me.<p>It’s not necessarily journalists’ fault; that’s the term these companies have used to market themselves for years.<p>We (the engineering classes &#x2F; actual <i>technologists</i>) need to do more to brighten the line between the <i>technology</i> and the <i>motivations and incentives</i> of the people putting up the capital (and the executives&#x2F;lawyers&#x2F;lobbyists they control).<p>And, possibly, to recognize our latent power to influence certain decisions.
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skrebbel超过 7 年前
Somewhat a tangent, but &quot;How evil is tech&quot; is a nice Trumpian headline. Looks like NYT is catching up with the times.<p>By formulating is like this, NYT implies that everybody agrees that &quot;tech&quot; is evil to some extent, and that the only discussion is about exactly <i>how</i> evil &quot;tech&quot; is. Don&#x27;t forget that NYT is in pretty direct competition with some companies they call &quot;tech&quot;. This article is not unlike Coca-Cola publishing a press release titled &quot;How evil is Pepsi?&quot;.<p>(Note, I did not share any opinion about whether &quot;tech&quot; is evil and I don&#x27;t necessarily disagree with the premise of the article. I&#x27;m just trying to highlight that this kind of writing appears to be the new baseline and it&#x27;s not just fake news and the alt right who do it anymore and that bothers the crap out of me because I feel like I can&#x27;t trust anyone anymore)
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oh-kumudo超过 7 年前
Very evil apparently.<p>Tech is the greediest industry at this point, even comparing with Wall Street, all under the philosophy of GROWTH. Too many pretentious people get into this industry to chase the hot money, it slowly degrades to this toxic, selfish, out of touch culture, that benefits no one except the tech people and their pocket. Worst of all, they lack the blessing of self-consciousness to see it.<p>Tech is changing the world, but it probably not making the world a better place.
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wpietri超过 7 年前
I am torn between my desire to see the numerous legitimate criticisms of the tech industry given deeper consideration and irritation at the eternally lazy way David &quot;Applebee&#x27;s salad bar&quot; Brooks tackles anything.<p>The &quot;destroying the young&quot; thing is especially tiresome. Every new thing has been destroying the young. That&#x27;s true at least as far back as the novel [1], and probably back to prehistory when elders complained that fire was making kids soft, what with their &quot;cooking&quot; and their &quot;warmth&quot;.<p>It&#x27;s also deeply self-defeating of him to be complaining about the lack of &quot;cohesion&quot; and &quot;focused attention&quot; in a sub-1000-word opinion piece that tries to make a half-dozen points, none particularly well. And all that in a daily newspaper, which is built to contain small amount of a great variety of things, and which makes a lot of its money from distracting its readers with ads. [2]<p>[1] e.g, point 4 of <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mentalfloss.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;52209&#x2F;15-historical-complaints-about-young-people-ruining-everything" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mentalfloss.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;52209&#x2F;15-historical-complaint...</a> and <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;09&#x2F;14&#x2F;when-novels-were-bad-for-you&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;09&#x2F;14&#x2F;when-novels-wer...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;01&#x2F;business&#x2F;media&#x2F;new-york-times-earnings.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;01&#x2F;business&#x2F;media&#x2F;new-york-t...</a>
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beaner超过 7 年前
I feel like none of the problems described are really symptoms of Big Tech, they&#x27;re more symptoms of technology itself along with the fact that we haven&#x27;t yet adjusted to it psychologically as a species. None of the problems that the author describes are problems that would not be there if &quot;Big Tech&quot; didn&#x27;t exist and were replaced by decentralized systems or other alternatives.<p>I think the author missed a really good opportunity to explore the developing relationship between the human psyche and the overflow of information that this age has provided us with, and instead made it political and blamey.
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oldandtired超过 7 年前
Technology of any kind is not inherently evil, not guns, computers, genetic manipulation, not even nuclear bombs. Evil only arises when man uses and formulates technology for evil purposes.<p>Too often, people get &quot;a bee in their bonnets&quot; over some form of technology when it is abused and misused by other people. They don&#x27;t separate the tool from the tool user and associate evil with the tool.<p>Sometimes there is a case for not developing some form of technology because the development requires the destruction and damage to people and the environment. Here the problem is still people not the technology itself.
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palad1n超过 7 年前
&gt;Imagine if instead of claiming to offer us the best things in life, tech merely saw itself as providing efficiency devices.<p>Hear hear.
markbnj超过 7 年前
&gt; Their technologies are extremely useful for the tasks and pleasures that require shallower forms of consciousness, but they often crowd out and destroy the deeper forms of consciousness people need to thrive.<p>Boy that&#x27;s a hell of a label to stick on all the technology produced by Google, Facebook and Apple. How do you even get all three of those companies into one bucket without just making it a stupidly big bucket? One is a search and advertising company with a bunch of side business, another is an innovative hardware company with a bunch of side businesses, and the third is an addictive social network. They&#x27;re all &quot;tech&quot; and they&#x27;re destroying our deeper consciousness? Ok.
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yannis7超过 7 年前
just another attempt by the witch-hunting media trash to portray tech people as the &quot;new bankers&quot;.<p>it is amazing how similar those &quot;respectable&quot; metropolitan left-wing newspapers are to their populist-right counterparts:<p>for the latter &quot;immigrants are gonna take your jobs and globalists are evil&quot; and the former &quot;robots are gonna take your jobs and techies are evil&quot;.
megaman22超过 7 年前
Literally my job is to make software that increases productivity, in a blatantly Taylorist sense, for a segment of business that is almost universally considered a cost center. More throughput with less people, and ideally the software enables using the cheapest people possible. I&#x27;m tasked with creating metrics that line-managers can use to drive their workers like oarslaves on a corsair galley. In a perfect world, from the business&#x27; perspective, I&#x27;d utterly replace the people with some conglomeration of AI buzzwords that could do the job at 65% of the efficiency of a human, at less than the cost of one minimum wage salary.
hjorthjort超过 7 年前
There is a lot of statistics about how social media causes depression&#x2F;unhappiness in the article. But I didn&#x27;t see sources, and from what I can tell (without looking at the studies) it&#x27;s just a correlation. I do believe social media impacts depression rates and creates some unhappiness, but the claims in the article seem unsupported. Surely, depressed kids would have spent more time alone in all ages, hanging out in their room, watching TV, maybe reading. Honestly, even if social media made you HAPPIER, I&#x27;d expect unhappy eight graders to spend more time on social media than those with a sunnier disposition.
pgl超过 7 年前
I think the question should really be, &quot;How Evil Are The People In Control Of Tech?&quot;
HumanDrivenDev超过 7 年前
I dunno, how evil is the media?
uptownfunk超过 7 年前
The article brings up three critiques of tech:<p>+Tech is destroying the young via social media<p>+Tech is causing the social media addiction deliberately to profit off of it<p>+Tech giants are monopolies (Apple&#x2F;Google&#x2F;Microsoft) that invade privacy and impose unfair conditions on content creators and smaller competitors.<p>Then at the end the author proposes a rebranding of tech:<p>&gt; Imagine if instead of claiming to offer us the best things in life, tech merely saw itself as providing efficiency devices. Its innovations can save us time on lower-level tasks so we can get offline and there experience the best things in life.<p>&gt; Imagine if tech pitched itself that way. That would be an amazing show of realism and, especially, humility, which these days is the ultimate and most disruptive technology.<p>So rebranding is going to make everything right? Who is he writing to, the public or the tech companies? Is he trying to give them advice on how rebrand themselves to appear to be less evil? I can understand his critiques of tech, but his proposed solution falls quite short of the mark!
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otalp超过 7 年前
1)Comparing the tech industry&#x27;s effects to the tobacco industry is a bad joke.<p>2)Of course monopolies exist in tech and are bad, but that&#x27;s the nature of the protectionist state capitalism in the US over the last few decades, and is not restricted to technology alone. Unfortunately corporations have more influence on the working of the government than the people, and we&#x27;re now into an era of unprecedented corporate mergers and monopolies.<p>3)&quot;Imagine if instead of claiming to offer us the best things in life, tech merely saw itself as providing efficiency devices. Its innovations can save us time on lower-level tasks so we can get offline and there experience the best things in life.&quot;<p>That&#x27;s what a lot of companies do. Apple and Microsoft market themselves as selling productivity devices that help you get work done quicker. Jony Ive is on record saying that people use iPhones too much.<p>It&#x27;s also not reasonable to sweep in hardware companies like Apple, who don&#x27;t particularly care how much time you spend using their products as long as you buy them regularly, to facebook, who very much care about how long you spend on their site, since this is inherently linked to their profitability. What are facebook going to do, encourage people to log off so that they can live happy lives while facebook&#x27;s profits decline? The purpose of a corporation is to maximise profits, you cannot expect companies which compete in the attention economy to compromise on that even if their services are addictive and not useful to the people who use them or productive to society.<p>If you really think monopolies and corporations like facebook are harming humans without offering any competing benefits, you&#x27;d have to question the whole system of corporate capitalism and whether we should allow corporations freedom to function without public influence over their activities.
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zaarn超过 7 年前
&gt;The first is that it is destroying the young.<p>&gt;The second critique of the tech industry is that it is causing [...] addiction on purpose, to make money<p>&gt;The third critique is that Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook are near monopolies that use their market power to invade the private lives of their users and impose unfair conditions on content creators and smaller competitors<p>I agree with all three of these, though I think this is fixable. They obvious and easy solution is to pick apart the giants. The EU&#x27;s ePrivacy Law and GDPR make this possible, in addition to Germany&#x27;s NdG making it difficult for large social network to operate compared to small ones.<p>The solution, in my opinions, is federated networks like Mastodon. Mastodon Server Operators have little incentive to abuse their users since the users will happily just swarm to another instance. Once they have figured out portable profiles, this becomes even easier.<p>Federation solves these problems by detaching the user from a specific operator.
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jondubois超过 7 年前
Most big tech companies are evil to some extent though they also do some good too. I&#x27;ve worked for a few and I can rarely stick around for longer than 6 months. It just doesn&#x27;t feel right to me. It&#x27;s obviously a zero-sum game.<p>It feels like executives are slowly turning the knobs and making companies more and more evil over time but doing so at a slow enough rate that nobody pays attention to it.<p>The hypocrisy of some big companies is that they promote themselves as being against any form of violence, aggression or discrimination but a large part of their business is about mentally abusing people and creating inequality.
TrickyRick超过 7 年前
Does make me wonder, will we look back at this time of unregulated tech companies and social media in 50 years the way we look back at unregulated sale and advertisement of tobacco today?
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JudasGoat超过 7 年前
Has anyone thought of making a nanny type app that would set &quot;healthy limits&quot; on time spent on social media and news. I don&#x27;t think we can rely on facebook to tell users what is healthy, when it is unhealthy to their revenue.
foxhop超过 7 年前
I ranted a couple days ago about the evils of what has become of cryptocurrency: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15746019" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15746019</a>
gerardnll超过 7 年前
What&#x27;s evil are the minds behind the tech.
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microcolonel超过 7 年前
I swear, if 00s and 10s Silicon Valley ruins the freedoms enjoyed by the computing industry by being short-sighted, it will be the greatest grudge I hold in life.
dredmorbius超过 7 年前
Addressing a few points raised in comments:<p>1. The drumbeat of criticism against major information-technology-centric, largely media-based firms, has been palpably increasing. As a long-term critic, this is oddly disconcerting. Calls for regulation are increasing in the US and elsewhere. Critics include numerous former (and some current) employees, or executives, of major tech companies, including Sean Parker, former president of Facebook.<p>2. The dynamics and interactions of media, the public, tribalistic impulses, and politics (as well as other phenomena) are an ancient study, though one apparently not much focused on by many working in information technology: programmers, system architects, sysadmins, DBAs, network engineers, designers, UI&#x2F;UX specialists, product managers, etc. Which is ironic because that really <i>is</i> our melieu.<p>There&#x27;s a very large literature on this topic and I very much recommend getting up to speed on the topic.<p>MOOC ICS has a good, fast-paced introduction. I&#x27;ve been commenting on HN and elsewhere of my own explorations: Robert McChesny, Noam Chomsky, I.F. Stone, Marshall McLuhan, H.L. Mencken, Walter Lippmann, Gustav la Bon, Davic MacKay, Cicero, Aristotle, and Plato are among the authors I&#x27;d recommend.<p>First video (apologies, I cannot find the playlist link): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QhGPbjxy2F8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QhGPbjxy2F8</a><p>3. &quot;Technology&quot; is a tremendously unsatisfactory term for the many meanings and connotations we give it. It&#x27;s become synonymous in large part with &quot;inforamtion technology&quot; (though writ broadly it concerns far more). But if you <i>do</i> look at information technology, <i>that</i> field can largely be divided in two: media, directed at collecting and directing information from and to people, and cybernetics, directed at monitoring and managing non-human systems (including technical, engineering, financial, and governmental systems). Looking at each of these more closely even those distinctions start disappearing over the underlying similarities.<p>But the upshot is that a tremendous amount of what &quot;technology&quot; is is really the new &quot;media&quot;. And yes, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Wordpress, Spotify, Snapchat, and similar companies are largely <i>media</i> or <i>communications</i> companies in the same sense that Western Union, AT&amp;T, RCA, CNN, or Time-Life Publishing, are. But bigger, faster, and with orders of magnitude more audience.<p>And the less-directly-media-oriented companies -- Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft -- still have media-like components, though they play in other spaces as well.<p>4. The current tech giants didn&#x27;t invent disinformation, misinformation, distraction, propaganda, and manipulation. But they&#x27;ve made it vastly more powerful, targeted, sophisticated, large, and rapidly-evolving. They&#x27;ve also denied this up and down and blue for years, with all the credibility of the lead, asbestos, tobacco, automobile, CFC, coal, and oil industries. Which is to say: nil.<p>Not <i>inventing</i> a problem doesn&#x27;t mean you&#x27;re not embodying or exacerbating it.
diyseguy超过 7 年前
meh. individuals will eventually figure it out for themselves. we don&#x27;t need nannies. something tells me this sort of argument will get used to prop up anti net neutrality arguments.
lowglow超过 7 年前
I wonder how many commenters here work for&#x2F;with big tech.
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ab89b176cb5d超过 7 年前
&quot;Tech&quot; is not technology. Nobody hates TCP&#x2F;IP or neural networks. What people rightly fear is unaccountable power held by software companies.<p>If you are an engineer, you can help by respecting the people who use what you build. Show people the content they want to see, not the content that maximizes revenue. Refuse to experiment and collect data without the informed consent of the people you target. Build systems with the knowledge that every centralized service will eventually be compromised. Even if it&#x27;s harder to build, harder to debug, and harder to monetize, build technology that is &quot;good&quot; instead of &quot;evil&quot; and the world will be better off.