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Ajit Pai is right

211 点作者 OberstKrueger超过 7 年前

46 条评论

zbruhnke超过 7 年前
This person misses the entire point of the argument for Net Neutrality - Yes it can be convenient if you know ALL of the apps and or services you&#x27;d like to use, however the entire internet being visible means putting small companies you have not yet heard of on nearly equal footing - giving them the chance to compete against the giants of commerce and sometimes (yes, sometimes it happens) WIN!<p>The beauty of the internet has been the ability for new things to pop up and create a real impact on the world economy starting with just a website.<p>If the rules Ajit Pai wants in place were to be in place when Amazon got started its likely Wal-Mart could have paid to simply make them disappear for most internet providers by &quot;buying&quot; the right to e-commerce traffic.<p>That&#x27;s not a world I want to live in - and its not one you should want to live in either if you believe in dreaming and creating something larger than yourself
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metalliqaz超过 7 年前
Ajit Pai isn&#x27;t right, but here&#x27;s why it doesn&#x27;t even matter: he&#x27;s ignoring the will of the people.<p>Under his chairmanship the FCC has (1)intentionally made it more difficult to comment on proceedings, (2) ignored the blatant and illegal automated responses that flooded the comment system without the knowledge of the people whose names were used, (3) tried to suppress participation by faking a DDOS, (4) obstructed investigations into both #2 and #3, (5) used debunked claims with debunked data to justify a rules change, and (6) come right out said that comments would be ignored because they didn&#x27;t contradict the debunked data.<p>They are lying, and the ISP-backed pundits that write articles like this are lying too.<p>The one and only remedy to Net Neutrality is robust competition, but we waved bye-bye to that long ago. ISPs have government-granted monopolies (or duopolies), and they are vertically integrated.<p>We need the protection of NN, it&#x27;s the only thing keeping the entrepreneurial spirit alive in this country.
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adamnemecek超过 7 年前
&gt; There is no evidence of systemic abuse by ISPs governed under Title I, which means there are not immediate benefits to regulation, only theoretical ones<p>False. They&#x27;ve tried in the past I believe. There was something with AT&amp;T and iPhone users around 2010 (IIRC it was about Facetime)? There were more.<p>Also the thing about Portugal and Euros. Yeah that graphic has been circulating for a while now, it predates this discussion. It&#x27;s an illustrative graphic, not like a screen shot. Kinda like when you post a MFW picture but it&#x27;s not actually your face when.<p>Also, as a side note, what&#x27;s stratechery.com? I&#x27;ve seen it posted a lot. I read the wiki, but idk why I should care about this guy&#x27;s opinion.
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kodablah超过 7 年前
Arg. I feel like articles like this are calling me stupid with some statements. Like this doozy:<p>&quot;T-Mobile treats all data the same, some data just doesn’t cost money&quot;<p>I guess I&#x27;m too stupid to understand what &quot;same&quot; means. Or:<p>&quot;Zero-rating [...] Customers loved it&quot;<p>That&#x27;s not enough. The argument is about small providers conforming to T-Mobile. What customers think is irrelevant I&#x27;m afraid. Then the author goes on to explain how it lowered prices. It&#x27;s like arguing the FDA shouldn&#x27;t regulate food at all, customers love unhealthy food, and the prices are lower on unhealthy food, so everything&#x27;s perfect right?<p>I will say I somewhat agree on the earlier part of the article. I don&#x27;t generally prefer premature regulations. But instead of asking &quot;why do we need these when ISPs are mostly self-regulating?&quot; since that cat is out of the bag we should be asking &quot;why do we need to repeal these if they aren&#x27;t harming the situation?&quot; Of course the latter question won&#x27;t be answered truthfully. The real answer, &quot;so we can violate net neutrality&quot; (or the &quot;spirit of&quot; or whatever).<p>It&#x27;s strange to see someone argue against being prematurely reactionary whilst arguing for being reactionary in the other direction for something already on the books. Want a different approach w&#x2F; the FTC or congress or something? Then do that first, and then repeal the rules. Otherwise, leave well enough alone unless, as I suspect, the true motive is that the rules are preventing things ISPs want to do.
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j2kun超过 7 年前
&gt; It is worth noting, by the way, that BitTorrent users were free-loaders, using massively more bandwidth than the vast majority of Comcast’s customers.<p>I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s how a service agreement works. If I&#x27;m paying for a certain bandwidth and latency, I should get that (to within reasonably improbable outages) if I use it 100% of the time or 1% of the time. If the ISP can&#x27;t keep up, they should be penalized for it or change the labels on the thing they&#x27;re selling. You don&#x27;t see a cloud storage provider saying &quot;you get 100 Gb of storage, but only if you don&#x27;t use 99 Gb of it.&quot;
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zzzeek超过 7 年前
&gt; Then you read about how San Francisco requires 14 permits that take 9 months to issue (plus a separate alcohol permit) and you wonder why anyone opens a restaurant at all (compounded by the fact that already-permitted restaurants have a vested interest in making the process more onerous over time). Multiply that burden by all of the restaurants that never get created and the cost is very large indeed.<p>so...either San Francisco has no restaurants at all, or this argument is complete garbage.<p>&gt; This argument certainly applies to net neutrality in a far more profound way: the Internet has been the single most important driver of not just economic growth but overall consumer welfare for the last two decades.<p>Two decades where Comcast did not own Universal did not own NBC, Time Warner Cable did not own Warner, HBO, Turner, CNN, AT&amp;T did not own them, and people watched TV on about 50 cable channels and not at all on the internet, rented DVDs&#x2F;VHS from the video store and not at all on the internet. Cord cutting as a viable thing for not just movies but also TV has only begun in the last couple of years. [edit]: the conflicts of interest in modern ISPs, being that they now produce and own huge slices of the content itself that they serve, in fierce competition with just a few other giants, are orders of magnitude greater than they were even five years ago.<p>&gt; Given that all of that dynamism has been achieved with minimal regulatory oversight, the default position of anyone concerned about future growth should be maintaining a light touch.<p>A hand-wavy &quot;regulations! killing business!&quot; argument. Regulations have a purpose and you will notice it every time you notice buildings having working fire exits and your dairy product at the supermarket not killing you.<p>&gt; I’ll say it again — who can be against net neutrality?<p>Comcast, who has tried to block certain services already.
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UseStrict超过 7 年前
Sure, except just about every example of companies doing the right thing had the flame of regulatory action and fines burning underneath them. If there was no risk of severe financial backlash, they&#x27;d keep pushing harder.<p>Not to mention the huge swaths of the US where there is either effectively or actually only one carrier. These companies don&#x27;t act nationally - they will target their efforts to desperate areas where their customers will have no choice but to accept their terms. What incentive would they have to &quot;innovate&quot; or &quot;improve service?&quot; None.
shmerl超过 7 年前
<i>&gt; Again, zero-rating is not explicitly a net-neutrality issue: T-Mobile treats all data the same, some data just doesn’t cost money. </i><p>False. Some data is not capped, while other is. So data is not treated the same. Q.E.D. Net neutrality means - either don&#x27;t cap it, or cap it all. No preferential treatment. India for instance explicitly bans zero rating as part of Net neutrality laws.<p><i>&gt; There is evidence that pre-existing regulation and antitrust law, along with media pressure, are effective at policing bad behavior</i><p>There is also tons of evidence of existing anti-trust laws doing nothing to stop monopolistic abuse. Data caps you brought above is an example in itself (mostly in case of Comcast and the like). Despite complaints and bad PR, Comcast pushes data caps on users, because they are monopolists and users have little choice but to comply. Where was anti-trust law to stop that?
just_steve_h超过 7 年前
His restaurant example actually undercuts his argument: despite the &quot;burdensome&quot; licensing and safety requirements imposed by San Francisco, the city is flooded with restaurants.
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TomMckenny超过 7 年前
&gt; There is no evidence of systemic abuse by ISPs governed under Title I, which means there are not immediate benefits to regulation, only theoretical ones<p>No, there are many cases including blocking peer-to-peer, hijacking search queries, blocking video streaming, blocking mobile payment, blocking tethering, numerous cases of blocking voip and even blocking a union website they disliked.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.freepress.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;04&#x2F;25&#x2F;net-neutrality-violations-brief-history" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.freepress.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;04&#x2F;25&#x2F;net-neutrality-vio...</a>
lovehashbrowns超过 7 年前
I don&#x27;t want an ISP to push ANY apps that won&#x27;t count against your data cap. How does that serve to promote competition? How is any company going to win over Facebook&#x2F;Spotify&#x2F;Youtube&#x2F;etc. when every single ISP offers an internet plan that doesn&#x27;t count data when used with those apps? That&#x27;s outrageous, on top of the obvious fact that ISPs will tend to push their own services over others, or price-gouge apps to be promoted.<p>More importantly, I don&#x27;t want this to be left up to good faith between ISPs, antitrust regulation, and the media. I&#x27;d rather take away their ability to be shitty right now as opposed to waiting until Comcast&#x2F;Cox&#x2F;Verizon&#x2F;AT&amp;T decide they&#x27;ve had enough and that they need to implement slow&#x2F;fast lanes and whatever crappy things they want to do. It&#x27;s not like they&#x27;ve ever proven to be kind and trustworthiness. Please. The fact that people are still trying to spin this around in their favor is pure insanity.<p>There&#x27;s ABSOLUTELY NO chance that these companies are lobbying to get rid of net neutrality THIS HARD and be doing it for the good of anyone. Garbage companies, garbage intentions.
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mrgreenfur超过 7 年前
His restaurant examples of the burden of regulations aren&#x27;t exactly swaying me here. Where are the examples of the burden the ISPs have had these last few years? It seems like knee-jerk anti-regulation without any concern for the specifics of the industry. In fact, these regulations should make it so burdensome to start new ISPs, but instead they have entirely separate legislation to prevent them.
clairity超过 7 年前
this is a bit off-topic, but... ben makes a good point when he says regulations is about trade-offs, but the kind of knee-jerk &quot;i hate regualations&quot; sentiment in this article is a real turn off. case in point:<p>&gt; &quot;A classic example of this phenomenon is restaurants: who could possibly be against food safety? Then you read about how San Francisco requires 14 permits that take 9 months to issue (plus a separate alcohol permit) and you wonder why anyone opens a restaurant at all (compounded by the fact that already-permitted restaurants have a vested interest in making the process more onerous over time). Multiply that burden by all of the restaurants that never get created and the cost is very large indeed.&quot;<p>yes, regulatory capture sucks, but y&#x27;know, just kinda maybe, most of those restaurants that would have been created in a lax regluatory environment are exactly the ones you don&#x27;t want? the kind that don&#x27;t care about structural integrity or food safety or having a bathroom? he&#x27;s focusing only on the costs, not the benefits, to justify his argument that regulations are bad. trade-offs have 2 sides: costs <i>and</i> benefits.<p>the problem isn&#x27;t the 14 permits (which represent the things we want) but the 9 months it takes the bureaucracy to issue them. that 9 months, representing pure negative cash flow, is the onerous bit. make regulatory agencies issue&#x2F;deny permits within 2 business days (so maybe it takes a month to get all your permits in place) and we won&#x27;t see this kind of misplaced hate for regulations.
michaelbuckbee超过 7 年前
What worries me is that this is the easy to notice stuff that is brought up (AT&amp;T blocking Skype, etc.) what is really pernicious are things like network &quot;optimization&quot; where there is a huge potential for abuse.<p>Want to influence the next election? Delay requests for a particular party&#x27;s website by 10s each.<p>Want to promote your new streaming service? Make competing ones timeout on every 10th request.<p>Concerned about journalists writing bad articles about your company and your abusive practices? Make their site take twice as long to load.<p>ISPs are in a position of immense power and in the US there is inadequate competition for a pure market solution&#x2F;consumer choice. This is something that needs government protection.
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vxxzy超过 7 年前
Really the argument is what type of service do these companies provide? It should forever be just a &quot;dumb data pipe&quot;. Many interests are attempting to bastardize this and call the Service something else to eek out more profit.<p>I as a consumer should simply be able to purchase &quot;access&quot;. That is, I should be able to purchase a pre-defined pipe from my provider. I should be allowed to pass as much traffic in and out that pipe as much as possible to any destination without discrimination. If the ISP sells me a pipe @10Mbps then I should be able to fully utilize it (save for latency&#x2F;jitter&#x2F;loss to destinations, etc..). I am paying to pass _data_. It is akin to my power company, I am paying for electricty (say 200 Amp service). My ISP should only look at it as _data_ and nothing more. The moment they put their fingers into my _data_ they are not supplying me a service I paid for.
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blntechie超过 7 年前
&gt; In other words, it wasn’t a net neutrality issue at all: it was an early prototype of what is known as “zero-rating.”<p>I read and agree with most of what Ben writes but he is grossly wrong here. How is &#x27;zero rating&#x27; not a net neutrality issue?<p>He justifies it by saying<p>1) It is common across the world and 2) It helped mobile carrier industry to be competitive.<p>On #1, some countries have banned &#x27;zero rating&#x27;(e.g. India) under net neutrality laws.<p>On #2, it was not only zero rating which helped T-Mobile and the industry to be competitive. It was primarily because of BYOD and getting rid of contracts when buying a new phone.
doke01超过 7 年前
&quot;...it wasn’t a net neutrality issue at all: it was an early prototype of what is known as “zero-rating.”&quot;<p>Zero-rating is a net neutrality issue. It gives preference to one service over others.
tcd超过 7 年前
You post this when india just got the toughest laws on Net Neutrality in the world [1]. This guy is clearly fishing for clicks (outrageous headline!) and wants to invite the trolls to comment pages.<p>He&#x27;s not right, he never has been, and never will be. And the idiots that upvoted this are also idiots.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redd.it&#x2F;7g3aaq" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redd.it&#x2F;7g3aaq</a>
burkaman超过 7 年前
The only argument here is &quot;it might not be necessary, so it&#x27;s not worth the costs.&quot; Can anyone think of any actual costs? Unfortunately there is no substance in the &quot;THE COST OF REGULATION&quot; section.
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FascinatedBox超过 7 年前
I really hate what seems to me a new trend of co-opting terms to muddy the waters and confuse the issues. This guy is not in support of NN. That&#x27;s it.<p>Ideally we&#x27;d have so much ISP competition that NN wouldn&#x27;t need be as necessary because the first company to propose splitting up the net would be laughed out of business.<p>But we&#x27;ve screwed that up, because there&#x27;s hardly any ISP competition in America. NN makes sure they don&#x27;t split up the net. Because we&#x27;ve seen before that they don&#x27;t really care about the end consumer.
lordCarbonFiber超过 7 年前
An article completly broken by it&#x27;s fundamental assumption; a NN internet is some how <i>more</i> expensive than a non NN one.<p>What impossible regulatory burden is the FCC really applying to the <i>poor</i> ISPs? The reason NN has been the default for all these decades is it&#x27;s <i>more</i> work to manually inspect packets to provide these artificial tiers of service and the ISP gravy train is way too good as it is to risk exposing their monopolies to consumer outrage.<p>The internet is a utility as much as electricity, and yet you don&#x27;t see the power companies saying it&#x27;s important for ~competition~ to charge variable rates for your power delivery (though, recent advances means this is possible so, once NN is killed expect Grid Neutrality to be next).<p>Sacrifice the internet for profit for all I care, just don&#x27;t fucking try to say it&#x27;s a good thing for consumers.
NickGerleman超过 7 年前
I find it alarming, and somewhat ironic, this article was removed from HN temporarily for it being repeatedly flagged. I don&#x27;t fully agree with the article, but using a mechanism to prevent abuse to hide an opinion that you disagree with is akin to the forms of censorship net neutrality is meant to prevent.
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crankylinuxuser超过 7 年前
Yawn. Another libertarian who believes &quot;The Market will Regulate itself.&quot; No matter how much proof you have to the contrary, you&#x27;ll still have those claiming less regulations are better.<p>Companies exist to make money. &quot;Social Good&quot; they claim are facades. Because at the end of the day, if &quot;Illegal_fine*percentage_caught &lt; Illegal Gains&quot;, they&#x27;re going to do it. And we have not much further to look than Google&#x2F;Amazon&#x2F;Microsoft&#x2F;Apple&#x2F;Facebook about that. And wouldn&#x27;t ya know, those are the big players on the Internet, the least regulated thing across the world.
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Chardok超过 7 年前
Honestly I would have no issues with this if we actually had competition. My state forbids local municipalities from forming internet companies, so I am left with a single speed from cable company or a single speed, half of the cable companies, from ATT with data caps.<p>I can guarantee the cable company will all of a sudden charge more, for the same service, by tacking on tiered plans, while doing <i>nothing</i> to upgrade reliability, bandwidth, or really anything. Why would they? Where can one go, when ATT will do the exact same thing.<p>Ajit is wrong, based on the assumption that the free market will correct this issue.
giacaglia超过 7 年前
Is this right given that ISPs have local monopolies?
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whowouldathunk超过 7 年前
You need electricity to power everything you do online. I don&#x27;t think anyone would support being charged different rates based on what you plug into a power outlet.
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bo1024超过 7 年前
I&#x27;m surprised this is getting so many upvotes, there are a lot of problems with the statements and arguments in the article.<p>It almost entirely rests on a bogeyman of high &quot;costs of regulation&quot;, with no argument or evidence that these costs under NN are actually high. NN is trivial to comply with and we&#x27;ve had two years under it but no evidence presented that it is burdensome.<p>Then, many of the arguments boil down to &quot;Net neutrality is good, but regulation is too costly so let&#x27;s hope the free market enforces net neutrality on its own without regulations.&quot; This is backed up by a claim that there have not been systematic violations of net neutrality, but this does not match the facts and has been addressed multiple times in this thread.<p>Also, the author several times incorrectly claims that zero-rating does not violate net neutrality, but actually, it is one of the primary examples of a violation. Perhaps they are confused with the fact that cellular companies like T-Mobile are not classified as common carriers? But this refutes one of the main points: For companies like T-Mobile not subject to NN rules, we do see systematic violations of NN, for example, zero-rating.
uiri超过 7 年前
So the author is saying &quot;look at this thing which people say violates net neutrality but not the net neutrality regulations as written&quot; and uses that as an argument to get rid of the net neutrality regulations altogether? Does this make sense to anyone else? Zero rating is equivalent to charging more for non-zero-rated bandwidth.
croon超过 7 年前
&gt; Equally difficult to measure is the inevitable rent-seeking that accompanies regulation, as incumbents find it easier to lobby regulators to foreclose competition instead of winning customers in an open market.<p>Yeah, really strong move by Pai, going against all ISPs wishes to keep Net Neutrality.<p>This story does not compute in its own logic.
popcornarsonist超过 7 年前
&gt; <i>Remember that ISPs bear massive fixed costs, which means they are motivated to maximize the number of end users. That means not cutting off sites and apps those customers want. Moreover, even in the worst case scenario where ISPs did decide to charge Google and Netflix and whatnot, they could price discriminate and charge the Netflix competitor nothing at all!</i><p>I don&#x27;t really get this argument. If the ISPs are able to get another revenue stream from content providers, such as Netflix, etc, then this doesn&#x27;t really follow. There could even be a world where they care more about content providers than consumer! Also: they&#x27;re not necessarily going to &quot;cut off&quot; these other apps, they could simply throttle them, making that app seem to work poorly. So, the consumer just stays with Netflix, who is paying the ISP.
EGreg超过 7 年前
<i>&quot;So to recount: one Portugal story is made up, and the other declared that a 10GB family plan with an extra 10GB for a collection of apps of your choosing for €25&#x2F;month ($30&#x2F;month) is a future to be feared;&quot;</i><p>So, to recount: this author doesn&#x27;t understand the concept of phasing something in, and thinks that if something doesn&#x27;t appear all at once then it will never appear.
abvdasker超过 7 年前
This guy is not in favor of Net Neutrality.<p>This piece is striking for it&#x27;s clever dishonesty. He says he believes in NN while arguing in favor of zero-rating, which is by definition contrary to NN.<p>Dude totally ignores the fact that during the growth phase of the internet ISPs like Comcast and Time Warner did not also own major internet content and therefore had little incentive to be anticompetitive (HBO and Hulu).
exabrial超过 7 年前
&gt; &quot;And, I’d add, if neutrality and foreclosed competition are the issue net neutrality proponents say they are, then Google and Facebook are even bigger concerns than ISPs: both are super-aggregators with unprecedented power and the deepest moats ever seen in technology, and an increasing willingness to not be neutral.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ve advocated this is a much larger threat
orf超过 7 年前
&quot;We promise we won&#x27;t systematically abuse this, we double promise with a cherry on top. But we need to be able to, for reasons. But we won&#x27;t. Swear down. But the option is nice, you know?&quot;
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r3bl超过 7 年前
1. QZ (nor Tim Wu) never claimed that the screenshot in their article is from Portugal. That false premise alone takes a significant amount of introduction to the article. In fact, QZ&#x27;s article even explains the same thing that this article does (see my second point).<p>2. I completely agree with the author that the Portugal example is a bad one. That example shows zero rating, not &quot;pay $5 to access certain websites&quot;, as most people assume once it circulates through the NN debate. Still problematic, but not as quite as those who share it make it seem. &quot;Pay $5 to use social media&quot; and &quot;pay $5 to use your data plan for anything you want and have additional data specifically for social media&quot; is not the same.<p>3. I disagree with the overall premise of the article (that Pai is right) and there was nothing in this article to prove me otherwise. It puts into a question the FCC decision from 2015. Okay, understood. But I fail to see what the author thinks is the appropriate action <i>after</i> the 2015 decision gets reverted. As such, my belief that the 2015 decision shouldn&#x27;t get reverted is still going strong.
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zaksoup超过 7 年前
Re: food safety...<p>&gt; Ayn Rand and Ron Paul walk into a bar. The bartender serves them tainted alcohol. They die. The market reacts and the bar closes because nobody goes there anymore. Ayn Rand and Ron Paul are still dead.
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TurbineSeaplane超过 7 年前
Well, at least it&#x27;s a nice break from the incessant talk about Facebook from Ben.<p>I think his newsletter could be renamed &quot;facebookanalysis.com&quot;
Grue3超过 7 年前
Just a single look at the governments who actually do regulate their Internet will lead you to the same conclusion. You don&#x27;t want your Internet to be like Portugal? Is China or Russia more of your taste? As someone who lives in Russia, I would never trust the government to regulate the Internet. It&#x27;s obvious what this control will end up being used for. You should be thankful that Trump of all people doesn&#x27;t want to control your Internet.
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zeep超过 7 年前
anyone with common sense know that this is false... it would break the internet if ISPs would take advantage of the absence of a net neutrality requirement. I think that whoever passed this law gave the ISPs a pretty bad idea (not that the law is bad).
gormo2超过 7 年前
Ajit Pai did nothing wrong and shouldn&#x27;t be attacked with as much personal vitriol as we&#x27;re seeing.
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manderson89超过 7 年前
I have a few issues with his reasoning.<p>&gt; &quot;The most famous example of an ISP acting badly was a company called Madison River Communication ... Vonage quickly complained to the FCC, which quickly obtained a consent decree that included a nominal fine and guarantee from Madison River Communications that they would not block such services again.&quot;<p>Basically his defense of the old regulatory framework in this instance is that the FCC took action. I don&#x27;t have much confidence that Ajit Pai would have the FCC take action if he were faced with this same scenario.<p>&gt; &quot;Another popularly cited case is Comcast’s attempted throttling of BitTorrent in 2007 ... The FCC ordered Comcast to stop in 2008&quot;<p>Once again his defense of the old framework is that the FCC will take action should this scenario recur. Chairman Pai doesn&#x27;t exactly engender confidence in his willingness to take on ISPs.<p>&gt; &quot;if the furor over net neutrality has demonstrated anything, it is that the media is ready-and-willing to raise a ruckus if ISPs even attempt to do something untoward&quot;<p>So the author acknowledges that what the ISPs are trying to do with net neutrality is &quot;untoward&quot;? Not sure why he&#x27;s written this article then... But even so, what good has that furor caused? It has become clear that the ISPs are going to succeed regardless of the ruckus. So this doesn&#x27;t really support the idea that the media can successfully regulate ISPs.<p>&gt; &quot;it is an acknowledgment that ISPs can and will self-regulate.&quot;<p>The author may be right that they can and HAVE self-regulated in the past. That does not mean they WILL self regulate in the future.<p>&gt; &quot;ISPs bear massive fixed costs, which means they are motivated to maximize the number of end users.&quot;<p>Not exactly. They are motivated to maximize profits. Maximizing the number of end users is certainly part of the equation, but monopolies tend to engage in other profit maximizing practices such as price discrimination (which is mentioned shortly after this in the article). However the author seems to assume that ISPs will only engage in price discrimination with regards to companies, and not consumers (&quot;they could price discriminate and charge the Netflix competitor nothing at all!&quot;). I find that unlikely. It is not unreasonable to think that blocking user access to some sites unless the user purchases a certain &quot;package&quot; will be used in service of price discrimination.<p>&gt; &quot;Ajit Pai is right to RETURN REGULATION [emphasis added] to the same light touch under which the Internet developed and broadband grew for two decades.&quot;<p>In my opinion this is a false equivalency. Though it may nominally be the same regulatory framework, there are differences between the regulatory environment then and now; primarily the FCC&#x27;s and Chairman Pai&#x27;s willingness to take on ISPs and support the principles of Net Neutrality.
jklowden超过 7 年前
The article attempts to make logical arguments from false premises.<p>* <i>What makes evaluating regulations so difficult is that the benefits are usually readily apparent ... but the costs are much more difficult to quantify</i> Why should that be so? The actual costs of implementing and conforming to a regulation are easier to measure than the benefits. The benefit of NN is harder to quantify than the cost of enforced nondiscrimination.<p><i>future innovations ... are far more difficult to calculate</i> Predictions are hard, especially about the future. If some future innovations are difficult to predict consequent to a regulation, others are hard to predict in its absence.<p>* <i>regulation always has a cost far greater than what we can see at the moment it is enacted</i> Why should that be so? Because we can&#x27;t know the future? If that&#x27;s the case, it&#x27;s equally true for benefits: we can&#x27;t know the full benefit of a regulation, either, because not all the behaviors it forestalls have been invented yet.<p>It has been estimated that many EPA regulations have benefits worth 100 times their cost. Those benefits far exceed EPA&#x27;s original estimates.<p>A regulation is a law. We hear a lot about them as &quot;bad&quot; because corporations have the money and time to complain about them in the press and to congress. They say the problem is costs, but when it comes to intangible goods like banking and communications, the &quot;problem&quot; is often the regulator&#x27;s interference with the corporation&#x27;s ability to exploit imperfect information. If you don&#x27;t think your phone company or credit card is two steps ahead of you, read your terms of agreement sometime.<p>Good regulations squeeze out bad actors. Worldcom did significant damage to AT&amp;T and their customers: by publishing fraudulent financials, it pushed AT&amp;T to make deep cuts to services that -- by honest accounting -- were profitable and competitively priced.<p>A good contemporary example is airline pricing. Not long ago, the price you paid for you ticket was the price for getting from A to B. Then the airlines started charging for drinks, then food, and now bags. The real price can be $100 more than the published price. When searching for fares, there&#x27;s no way to look for an &quot;all in&quot; price, so all airlines are forced into this deceptive model. Only regulation could successfully return us to a normal system where the price is the price.<p>The Internet exists because of taxpayer-sponsored research to create standards and place them in the public domain. Anyone who used MCI Mail or Compuserv or Prodigy knows what a privatized Internet would look like.<p>The idea that the telephone company (or cable company) should be allowed to determine, in any way, how we use their service or what we use their service for has no analog in any other industry, which is why every supporting argument is specious or disingenuous or just false.
rubyn00bie超过 7 年前
Ajit Pai is wrong and so is the author. He’s confusing safety and soundness regulation with economic regulation, and incorrectly asserting they’re equal. They are not.<p>Net neutrality is about the safety and soundness of the internet. What he’s saying is “hey it has been okay so regulation is bad until we have to have it. Because all regulation is bad.” That’s a pretty fucked and ignorant way of looking at regulation in my opinion.<p>It’s quite sad to see this getting upvotes.
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bshur超过 7 年前
no he&#x27;s fucking not
mtgx超过 7 年前
So many things wrong in that article, I don&#x27;t know where to begin.<p>I will begin with the part where he contradicts himself in the article, implying the Portugal style zero-rating is no big deal in the first half of the article, and then saying zero-rating could potentially be the biggest threat in the second half.<p>The second stuff he&#x27;s wrong about is he conflates (poor) European country prices with the U.S. prices, so from his point of view it looks like the Portuguse have sort of a &quot;first world problem&quot; when they complain that the <i>next</i> 10GB costs only 5 euro if they buy an app package.<p>His mistake here is that he&#x27;s not putting things into the local context. Many European countries have 1Gbps cable internet that costs somewhere around 15-30 euro. To Americans that looks &quot;dirt cheap&quot;. But to the people in those countries it&#x27;s just regular prices. It&#x27;s not cheap for them, which is why most have stuck on the &quot;much slower&quot; 100 Mbps lines and such. So saying that Portuguese don&#x27;t have anything to whine about because their internet is already &quot;cheap&quot; or whatever, is just wrong.<p>Another thing is that today&#x27;s 1GB data plan is tomorrow&#x27;s 10GB data plan on mobile devices. Data usage is exploding. Without net neutrality (and strong competition), ISPs could leave everyone on the 1GB plan 5 years later, even though they now need 10GB of data for their daily needs, while overcharging them for &quot;app packages&quot;.<p>This way, carriers could move us from a world of &quot;I can visit 100% of the internet on my data plan&quot; to &quot;I can visit only 10% of the internet on my data plan..for the other 90% I will have to buy various data packages, where the internet is split into groups of services.&quot;<p>And again, competition IS the ultimately solution. But net neutrality is there to ensure things don&#x27;t go terrible when there isn&#x27;t any competition. If the US wants to get rid of net neutrality, then it should <i>first</i> try to foster much stronger competition at a local level. Then we can begin discussing the repeal of net neutrality, if still necessary.<p>Also, Ben must have a short memory. Before the previous FCC started arguing for net neutrality, Comcast, AT&amp;T, and Verizon started <i>slowing down</i> Netflix and Youtube. I was constantly seeing people on Reddit complaining that their 50 Mbps Comcast connections can&#x27;t seem to handle the 3Mbps Netflix traffic.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;information-technology&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;information-technology&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;netfl...</a><p>But seriously, do we really need to spell out why the U.S. ISPs want to get rid of net neutrality? Does Ben actually believe that the ISPs are doing this because the rules have been &quot;oh so hard on them&quot;? Or is it because they want to screw the consumers nine ways to heaven, and having no rules in place, just like when they repealed the privacy framework recently banning them from collecting user data, will help them do that?
ryanwaggoner超过 7 年前
EDIT: deleted
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