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Humans are Liars

83 点作者 tckr超过 7 年前

16 条评论

chongli超过 7 年前
This piece is interesting but it misses the elephant in the room: Work is transactional at its heart. When somebody is your boss and you depend on them to pay your bills and feed your family then they are not your friend no matter how pleasant your interactions may be. This is why people work so hard to protect themselves. You ultimately can't ask people to be vulnerable and honest about their true opinions without some kind of consideration to offset the risk. This is why tenure is so coveted in academia.
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jhiska超过 7 年前
Humans are liars; systems are dehumanizing.<p>More precisely, humans are interested in preserving themselves, including their ego and social standing. One example of this is when we say &quot;humans are liars&quot; we are not thinking of ourselves, but projecting it to Others. And when I say &quot;we&quot; I&#x27;m distancing myself from the Others as well, because otherwise there would be negative focus on me. And when you read &quot;I&quot; you are being distanced from your own guilt, because I&#x27;m an Other to you. I don&#x27;t benefit from calling myself a liar (which isn&#x27;t always true, anyway, for anyone), and neither does anyone else profit from calling themselves liars. It&#x27;s rational to preserve yourself given the circumstances.<p>Should we change humanity or change the systems? Which side you consider the problem is political.<p>&gt;Transparency enables to uncover defects, if information and data is available without restriction, there is no use in lying about it or covering it up.<p>This sounds like it should be true, but it&#x27;s not. People can not accept certain revelations, and &quot;increased transparency&quot; about people&#x27;s flaws just makes everyone dislike, hate or despise each other. This, too, is a human flaw.
vletrmx超过 7 年前
In several instances being honest has cost me socially. There doesn&#x27;t seem to be a solution that doesn&#x27;t ultimately result in rejection. Unless ofcourse you&#x27;re willing to lie.
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ianamartin超过 7 年前
I struggled with this a lot when I was younger and growing up in the South. I got really frustrated by things that just seemed so completely dishonest. Even the basic ritual greeting, &quot;Hi. How are you?&quot; is fundamentally dishonest. It&#x27;s not a real question because the asker doesn&#x27;t want an honest answer. And I felt imposed upon because the only socially acceptable response is almost always going to be a partially dishonest, &quot;Great, how are you?&quot;<p>But as I&#x27;ve gotten older, I&#x27;ve decided that there is real value in these rituals, particularly in the workplace. And the value is that these kinds of interactions set a tone and a minimum viable behavior both in public and at work.<p>Performing that little lie when you walk into work forces you to leave a certain amount of your personal life at the door. And this is a good thing. Environments I&#x27;ve worked in (notably, not in the South. NYC is awful about this) that do not adhere to these little ritualistic dishonesties empower the most negative people in the room to do the most damage to morale and productivity. Negativity is absolutely toxic and infectious.<p>And I guarantee you, the person in the room who replies, &quot;Oh, well, you know, it&#x27;s not going so great right now. My kid is having problems at school, and I don&#x27;t understand it. S&#x2F;he is a great kid and really smart, but just isn&#x27;t getting along well with other kids and not doing well on tests. I just don&#x27;t get it.&quot; when you ask, &quot;Hey, how&#x27;s it going?&quot; is going to be a problem down the line. (Or something like that. Doesn&#x27;t have to literally be about a kid. Just anything that breaks the ritual.)<p>It seems innocuous at first. Because we want to care about the people we work with. But this person is also going to gripe about the management and company leadership and bring up politics in ways that make people either angry or uncomfortable. And not in a healthy way in a 1:1 with the management. It will be at lunch, in small meetings, in code reviews, planning sessions, etc.<p>On the coworker side, the idea of total honesty is not a good one. The people who either consciously refuse to engage in these rituals (or are just unaware of them) are guaranteed to cause problems for the entire team over time. If you bring it up as a talking point in, say a 1:1, the person will just say, &quot;What&#x27;s the problem? I&#x27;m just being honest. What do you want me to do? Lie?&quot;<p>I can&#x27;t think of any reasonable way to create a policy around this. Teams just need to police themselves. When I hear someone invading the workplace with this kind of &quot;honest&quot; negativity, I have two responses depending on what&#x27;s going on. If it&#x27;s personal life stuff or politics, I&#x27;ll offer to take them out for a bite to eat or a drink or something and listen to everything. If it&#x27;s griping about management or leadership, I&#x27;ll just say that they really need to have a conversation with &lt;manager&gt; about that because we really can&#x27;t accomplish anything by brooding over it. And I&#x27;ll do this even if I 100% agree with what the person is saying about management or politics. Because I guarantee you someone within a hundred feet of us doesn&#x27;t agree about it.<p>On the management side, I&#x27;d argue that total honesty is also a terrible idea. In my experience, the people in management roles who advocate for total honesty&#x2F;total transparency come in two flavors: the first is the person who says he promotes these ideas but lies constantly anyway. The second is an absolute jackass who uses honesty as an excuse to act like a bag of dicks to people.<p>It is possible do deliver hard criticisms without being a jerk. It just takes a little bit of time and a little bit of effort. Telling someone, &quot;This sucks. You&#x27;ve got to stop being so terrible at your job.&quot; is not only lazy and asinine, but also completely unproductive. If someone on your team is performing that badly, it is your job to invest time in that person. Whether it&#x27;s some coaching earlier in the dev process or extra time in code reviews or providing some educational material or designing a pip, that&#x27;s your job. Being harshly critical because &quot;honesty&quot; is garbage. Grow up. And take the time to actually do your job.<p>I don&#x27;t need to say much about the &quot;total honesty&quot; liar category. They are either sociopaths or utterly incompetent (often both, but competent sociopaths are the worst) and can only get by through manipulating people and playing political games.<p>The two best managers I&#x27;ve ever had as an individual contributor are what I would call transparently dishonest. Yes, sometimes they had to either be silent about a situation or whitewash certain organizational details, but they also let you know when that was happening. Their criticism was direct and effective, but not cruel. They focused on three key things: providing clearly defined tasks, guarding our time, and protecting the team from organizational politics. They were sometimes (often?) less than totally honest about what was going on, but we knew it and trusted them to know that it was okay to not know.<p>My best manager as a manager is . . . well, I haven&#x27;t had a good one yet. So I&#x27;ll let you know when that happens.<p>So, I&#x27;m going to go out and say it. A certain amount of dishonesty is a good thing. Social structures depend on it to function in a healthy and productive way. Go too far in the honesty direction, and you end up with a culture like NYC, which, as much as I like many things about the city here, it&#x27;s only a barely functional society. Go too far on the dishonest side, and everyone is stilted and uncomfortable, and no one feels like they can say anything to anyone because we&#x27;re all Stepford Wives at work, and it&#x27;s all pretty on the outside but awful on the inside. Like in much of the South and Texas in particular.<p>It&#x27;s a balancing act. The Dilbert strip in the article is good because it&#x27;s useful for us to remember that we are actually selfish and dishonest. But solving that isn&#x27;t the real problem, and being totally unselfish and honest isn&#x27;t the solution. That&#x27;s like reading an article about how bad waterfall is and then moving to a 1-day sprint Agile system. (You laugh, but I&#x27;ve seen it. Seriously. 1-day sprints with 5 standups a day. Sprint planning in the morning, scrum coding sessions in the afternoon, retro just before end of day. You can guess what happened: every day every task ended up blocked. This went on for over a year. Literally nothing got done. But, wow, that team looked busy.)<p>Apologies if I&#x27;ve offended anyone who is perfectly honest all the time, a coworker, a manager, an Agile practitioner, a Waterfall advocate, a sociopath, an incompetent, a New Yorker, a Texan, or even human. I&#x27;m just being . . . totally honest.
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ourmandave超过 7 年前
There&#x27;s always Ray Dalio&#x27;s of Bridgewater school of Radical Transparency.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;09&#x2F;12&#x2F;bridgewaters-ray-dalio-the-leadership-strategy-behind-my-success.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;09&#x2F;12&#x2F;bridgewaters-ray-dalio-the-l...</a><p>If you enjoy crying at your desk anyway.
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ravenstine超过 7 年前
I recognized the fact that humans are the lying species a long time ago, and I&#x27;ve tried to counteract that in the workplace. I find opportunities where I can naturally push the boundary a bit, which isn&#x27;t too hard for a young male with nothing to lose. I do it both for myself and to create room for others to rightfully express themselves and be able to get away with it.<p>It works a little bit. People are still very protective of their position, but I&#x27;d like to think people on my team are a little more open about things than when I started. I don&#x27;t have a way to measure that, though. I can say for sure that we&#x27;re much more trust-based than when I joined.<p>The truth is a funny thing, literally. I&#x27;m not a naturally funny person, and the jokes that I make are often one that only I seem to understand. But it&#x27;s when I&#x27;m honest about things that I get the most laughs. I remember one time when the conversation I was having lead me to say &quot;Some of Charles Manson&#x27;s music is pretty good&quot; to this one woman, and she laughed at that but I don&#x27;t think she realized that I meant what I said.
jimnotgym超过 7 年前
I went to work at a long serving SME that had a lot of staff with very long service and was given the job of moving some things forward.<p>&gt; It should be safe to be vulnerable<p>The number one cause of stress for me is that management did not protect me enough. When I changed something, it would have some minor knock on impact that upset someone (sometimes someone very junior), who would go and see a director, who would go and see the MD and then I would get career threatening back room deals going on that I was not party to. If you are going to get someone to come and push the company forward at sub-boardroom level, make sure your directors are 100% committed to the changes.&#x27;You can&#x27;t make an omelet without breaking eggs&#x27;, make sure you are ready to accept broken eggs. Make sure when petty stuff is brought to senior people they divert it straight back to the project sponsor (or whoever). Make sure individual managers know this change is happening, and it is their job to allow it and make their staff happy with it.<p>There is nothing worse than when you are in the heart of a technical change, than to find out you are in trouble with the boss because a secretary in another dept is sad that you changed their UI.<p>Worse still when you are passed over for a promotion because the MD is concerned that you upset a few people, <i>when it wasn&#x27;t your job to manage the people side in the first place</i>.<p>Transparency is part of the answer, but in the situation I describe it actually becomes a matter of giving people far too much info, so they can&#x27;t claim they were not consulted! This is counter-productive too.<p>Senior managers need to take a very firm line with passive-aggressive behavior that is trying to stop change, or not start the change off to begin with.
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Spooky23超过 7 年前
You can be honest with your spouse, priest and lawyer. Everyone else is a shade of grey.
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unabst超过 7 年前
You will find dishonesty between managers and workers. This is because workers try to get away with things, and managers are paid to catch them.<p>You will find dishonesty between executives and shareholders. This is because executives are paid to lie about performance, and share holders exist to punish them.<p>But this is just as systematic as it is human.<p>Dishonesty is rarer among workers. Their gossip is honest, and hence cathartic.<p>Dishonesty is also rarer among the executive team. For running a company can only be done with facts, and in almost all cases of corporate scams, the executives were all in on it. And even the whistle blower would have had to known the truth.
pdkl95超过 7 年前
&gt; Humans are Liars<p>Lying may be common, but it isn&#x27;t universal. I never understood why you would want to make a habit of having to waste memory and mental effort to remember the map of what lies have been told to which people. It&#x27;s hard enough to remember one version of reality.<p>Regarding social consequences: I&#x27;m not sure. I was already a socially awkward nerd, which makes makes it very hard to isolate any lying&#x2F;not-lying consequences. Politely declining to answer when a lie is socially expected (or, when possible, finding a way to respond that doesn&#x27;t require lying) has worked out reasonably well so far.
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tckr超过 7 年前
OP here, thanks for all the great comments and anecdotes.<p>While nobody disagrees that this kind of culture would be worth striving for, the majority&#x27;s opinion seems to be that it is impossible to achieve.<p>But we all share the desire for living&#x2F;working in an environment like this and this gives me hope! Anybody who start the discussion in their team or company about the way they interact, will quickly and most certainly find allies and can grow a team of change agents from that.<p><i>Everyone culture</i> was already mentioned and I would also recommend books like <i>Unboss</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;coderbyheart.com&#x2F;unboss-a-compendium-for-future-organizations&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;coderbyheart.com&#x2F;unboss-a-compendium-for-future-orga...</a> or <i>Joy, Inc.</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;coderbyheart.com&#x2F;joy-inc&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;coderbyheart.com&#x2F;joy-inc&#x2F;</a>
Synaesthesia超过 7 年前
I think people are for the most part honest and good, I think it’s overlooked how much goodness is inherent to our nature.
sulam超过 7 年前
&gt; It should be free of incentives that promote individualized results<p>I love to complain about sales people, but good luck getting the really good ones to work at a company like this without the usual compensation structure.
phkahler超过 7 年前
I may be guilty of some defensive tactics at times, but I don&#x27;t lie. By lie I mean making statements that are false. I have rarely seen overt lies, but... In one case a PhD in my group claimed a certain level of system performance (which he could not meet) was mathematically impossible. Our boss could not refute it, but I quietly went back to the lab and achieved the goal. I filed a note about that man&#x27;s integrity under my hat.
erikpukinskis超过 7 年前
I suspect on some level, Scott Adams likes the idea that <i>all</i> humans are “dirty, rotten liars” because it eases his fear that he might be more of a liar than some of his adversaries.
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billsimms超过 7 年前
I was surprised by sections in &quot;Lying&quot; by Sam Harris where he wrote &quot;Why don&#x27;t we agree that you won&#x27;t ask me that so I won&#x27;t have to tell you the truth.&quot; A much more extreme position is Brad Blanton&#x27;s &quot;Practicing Radical Honesty&quot; and other books by him. He admits in one of his books the huge personal cost he has seen people suffer when people tell everyone all the truth all the time, but he still thinks it is worth it.
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