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Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

43 点作者 abhij89超过 7 年前

12 条评论

latch超过 7 年前
Repost. Original had good comments<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15861043" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15861043</a>
StavrosK超过 7 年前
I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it&#x27;s trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities!<p>Or, alternatively, &quot;You don&#x27;t live in SF so we don&#x27;t have to compete with a bunch of other companies for your salary? Haha, sucker, here&#x27;s less money for the same job.&quot;
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jasonkester超过 7 年前
To me, this seems like it will ensure your company only ever has average developers.<p>A good developer can negotiate a bette rate if he wants, or at the least, he&#x27;ll be offered gigs at above average rates. By sticking to the exact market average according to their salary surveys, they&#x27;re only able to select from the list of candidates who don&#x27;t meet the above criteria. That is, the below average ones, and the occasional good one who has never been told what he&#x27;s worth.<p>I&#x27;ve written about this in the past:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.expatsoftware.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;developers-should-learn-to-negotiate.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.expatsoftware.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;developers-should-lear...</a>
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moxious超过 7 年前
I applaud transparency in general and the intent here is noble. One of my companies considered adopting the old model for a time.<p>However:<p>&gt; The new formula now includes an elastic part that adjusts to the cost of living and market influence of salaries for different roles.<p>The transparency and simplicity of the old model was its key value. The more complex and hard to assess terms you put in, the more you lose transparency and make salary assignment something that can be &quot;massaged&quot; to fit the circumstances. And I think having a formula is supposed to be the antithesis of that.<p>But this is a really hard damn problem. Markets aren&#x27;t the same, and people&#x27;s egos are real. Algorithms don&#x27;t tend to do well when one of the things in the balance is &quot;people&#x27;s perception of fairness&quot; since fairness is an emotional and non-quantitative concept.
phantom_oracle超过 7 年前
A couple of things to point out:<p>- They say they are doing away with location-specific factors in the formula. However, their formula still uses Numbeo to calculate cost-of-living based on your locality (which is location-specific)<p>- They seem to be transparently &quot;hiding&quot; (an oxymoron I know) the fact that their new formula is stripping away 2 major benefits:<p><pre><code> - Removing 3% Loyalty Raise - The Salary Choice Option Now Phases out at 4 Years (&quot;In fact, in May of 2016, we stopped offering this choice.&quot;) </code></pre> I actually mentioned this company in my comment about the Basecamp salary adjustments [1]<p>I&#x27;m going to agree with StavrosK on this and say that these formulas are pointless at best (and probably just a means to give HR&#x2F;finance&#x2F;marketing some extra work).<p>Living in SF&#x2F;NY&#x2F;London is expensive, but the tradeoffs for living in these areas is the high demand for technical skills and networking (tradeoffs in a professional sense).<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16051062" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16051062</a>
DeusExMachina超过 7 年前
I find the idea of equity that is quickly spreading deeply flawed.<p>Equity is not equality, which is giving everybody the same opportunities, like the same starting salary and the same objective performance reviews (which I fully support).<p>Equity means equality of <i>outcome</i> regardless of merits. It means you have to actively discriminate against your most productive members and reward others for their poor choices.<p>This usually has two effects: the most productive people leave for places that reward their productivity and others have no incentive of being more productive [1]<p>You can see this in their formula:<p>* Location base: did you chose to live in a place that cost more? No problem. Here is a bunch of money completely unrelated to your performance.<p>* Cost of living correction: we didn&#x27;t reward you enough for your expensive choices, so here is some more money on top of that.<p>* Loyalty: did you stay here for a long time, maybe because you have no other choice, or because we give you money to live in an expensive place? Here is another bunch of money again unrelated to your performance.<p>At least they have multipliers for role value and experience, which sort of reward the ability of each individual.<p>But what if a person is more productive than others in the same role with the same experience? Can they negotiate a higher salary? Given the existence of a formula, I doubt. Although I might be wrong.<p>And yes, these people could be promoted, but there are not enough higher positions for everyone (there is only one team lead in each team), not everybody has the skills for a different role (managing people is different from writing code) and not everyone has even interest in changing roles.
pablolmiranda超过 7 年前
Based on all the parameters, It’s funny that Andy lives in SF and is with the company longer than Sunil CTO that lives in Boston, and makes less than Sunil. Something doesn’t look so transparent.
pleasecalllater超过 7 年前
&lt;sarcasm on&gt; Oh, so the average salary in your city is $100 per month? Oh, cool, so you get $300 per month from us, work like we do in SF, and buy that $2k computer, so you can have stuff like we have. Oh, and don&#x27;t forget to work hard enough, our CEO needs to buy another car this month. &lt;sarcasm off&gt;
tallanvor超过 7 年前
Good luck attracting and retaining qualified support people with that type of salary disparity.
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pawelkomarnicki超过 7 年前
&quot;Cost of living&quot; factor is the most idiotic thing ever.
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have_faith超过 7 年前
There are people with the role &quot;Happiness Hero&quot;. This is new to me, can anyone explain? What do they tell future employers?
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mxstbr超过 7 年前
(2016)<p>The formula in that post is outdated, they recently changed it again, this is the blogpost from December about the changes: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;open.buffer.com&#x2F;salary-formula&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;open.buffer.com&#x2F;salary-formula&#x2F;</a>