TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Advice from America's Worst Mom

114 点作者 aycangulez将近 15 年前

19 条评论

abalashov将近 15 年前
From the point of view of a Soviet immigrant to the US, the predominant public reaction the author describes is quite bewildering. It is hard for me to imagine how an 8 or 9 year old child riding a subway could be the basis of a sensational news story; if anything, 8 or 9 sounds like a seasoned, advanced age.<p>I came here when I was 6, in 1992, and did quite a bit of my growing up subsequently in a well-tended, well-watched family-oriented graduate student housing facility on the campus of a private university. Not exactly the 'hood. My parents, as all the (predominantly foreign) residents there, were busy graduate students trying to make it on a ~$10k/year stipend with student visa-based work restrictions, and, being in the humanities field, faced quite daunting demands to excel so distinctively according to the rules of their field in order to have a stab at staying in this country after their visa ran out. So, of course, they were busy working/studying until 10-11 PM.<p>Never in my wildest dreams as a Moscow child could I have imagined that leaving me alone in that highly enclosed, heavily security-patrolled, communal environment full of watchful neighbours and fellow parents would be considered "child neglect" under Indiana state law, nor that, in fact, it would be so until the age of 12 to leave me home alone for _any_ amount of time, strictly speaking, as a statutory matter.<p>In fact, I was one of the very few children of ex-USSR or Eastern European extraction who was not, at some point during this tenure, essentially kidnapped by university security with no notice given to the parents and placed in a foster family for a few days while the shocked and aggrieved parents were badgered with saber-rattling about child neglect by whatever state agency. I avoided it narrowly by a stroke of luck; on many occasions, e.g. winter nights, when I was playing outside - in the dark! - at the precarious hour (!) of 8 PM, I saw the university cops peering out of their patrol cars, eyeing me like prey. Honestly, these keystone cops were a far greater danger to my welfare than any conceivable predator. They were often unpleasant and openly contemptuous, amplifying the psychologically traumatic fear of police and other martial authorities that is already built into any child of Soviet parents by inheritance. To this day, I still have this reaction to cops that I must surely be "guilty" of something, even though I'm innocent. The way that they provided foundations for that feeling, with their hostile dispositions, abrasive lines of questioning, etc. was a lot more injurious to my development as an individual than free association with other kids until mid-evening in a protected communal yard.<p>It is difficult to imagine a safer environment for a child than the kind of place that this was. If there were ever a place where there were some adults around at almost times, and neighbours you knew and could count on in case of an emergency, this was definitely it.<p>The stream of sanctimonious busybodies from the state child/welfare agency that would occasionally come around to harass these poor, tired foreigners was just unbelievable. Now that I've lived in Georgia for 10 years, I make an analogy to what Georgia's agency - DFACS (Department of Family and Children's Services) - spends its time doing in predominantly working-class Hispanic-occupied trailor parks and poor black neighbourhoods down here.<p>Some of this is just an incorrigible cultural and institutional defect, as other comments have pointed out. Another important difference with the USSR specifically, though, is that we had households with two working parents for a lot longer than has been normative in the US; our entry of women into the workforce dates back almost to the revolution, in keeping with the Marxist gender equality premise. So, Soviet society developed institutional solutions and accommodations[1] for this relatively early. A necessary consequence is that children had to lead a parent-independent existence much earlier in their lives than if the premise of a full-time stay-at-home mother is granted.<p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia#Pre-school_education" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia#Pre-school_...</a> -- see the paragraph ("The Soviet system...")
评论 #1623988 未加载
patio11将近 15 年前
In Japan there are lots of kids commuting to school at six or eight years old, often across town or in different cities. Everyone thinks I'm batshit insane when I tell them what Americans would think of it. I am mostly on board with this, although I did walk an eight year old to the station in downtown Nagoya because he was walking there at ten pm.
评论 #1622570 未加载
评论 #1622809 未加载
评论 #1622397 未加载
评论 #1624118 未加载
malkia将近 15 年前
Me (4 back then) &#38; my cousin (5) took off one day from the city where our moms were with us, to our home city (20km - not much) - we walked, ate some grass, kicked some signs, tooks two buses - one in right direction, one wrong - total from 9:00AM, uptill 4pm or later we were at the door of my grandmother &#38; grandfather asking for the truck toy (that's why we started, we needed to play in the sand and we were missing an important vehicle).<p>That was in Bulgaria, around 1980s - Yes people were worried, but not much - it might've been the communist era that either did not produce much child related crime, or such were hiddenly took and dealt with (by still spreading that everything is okay).<p>Nowadays (especially was it 2004-2005) - there was whole media frenzy of kids disappearing - for about week or so. I've looked at the statistics - and nothing was different for that week compared to previous years - it's just that media picked it up.<p>It's exactly that - media - not news source - I'm talking about CNN, FOX, MSNBC and the crap that they do. I used to love CNN, I don't think I do anymore...<p>Anyway just my experience.<p>Oh, and later it was no problem for me taking of one part of the city (Burgas) and walking 2 or 3km through couple of streets, just to go to where my grandmother worked, and they go back, and stroll the streets.<p>Hell, our most favourite kid movies were about kids strolling all day streets either at their home cities, or at tourist resort places their parents were staying.<p>But nowadays.. It's just too much, too soft, and too tight at the same time.<p>As the article is saying: "Preaching independence while warning against it."
Zak将近 15 年前
I grew up in rural Alaska. By the time I was 8, I was hunting small game unsupervised. I was allowed to operate an ATV on my own as soon as I was physically able to work all the controls (I rode it with a parent's assistance before that). It was a bit longer before I got to take out the motorboat on my own. I may have been a bit younger than average for the area when I started doing some of these things, but not by much.<p>None of these things caused problems. People didn't start having ATV or gun accidents until they discovered alcohol and inhalants. No children were eaten by wolves or bears. I was a much happier child because of the freedom, and I think, a much more self-reliant adult.
meric将近 15 年前
Since I was 9, I looked for my 6 years old brother after school and brought him back home by bus every day. Granted, occasionally it would take me 20 minutes to find him and I'd get frustrated at why he was playing in the sand pit when we were supposed to go home, but it's not like we ever got kidnapped by strangers or anything....<p>That was only 11 years ago in Australia.
sanj将近 15 年前
My son (about 8) just managed to walk a half mile across streets and traffic lights to the grocery store to buy lemons -- for lemonade.<p>Beyond the fact that he managed to overpay for the lemons, he came back safe, proud and happy.<p>Sign me up for worst father!
评论 #1623017 未加载
dlsspy将近 15 年前
Why isn't she teaching her children to be afraid of everything? So unamerican.<p>I fully expected this to be a Jessi Slaughter article. <i>That</i> is a set of bad parents.
rue将近 15 年前
The U.S. stands far and beyond any other place in this respect, though I suspect some of the same influence is starting to creep in elsehere as well.<p>In The Best Country in the World(*), I used to walk to first grade by myself and thereafter rode buses/subway/trains by myself or with schoolmates - just like everyone else here. Most of us even came home to an empty house and had to manage to feed ourselves before the parents got home some hours later.<p>This used to be the norm about a decade ago still when my younger brother was in that age range, but recently based on public discussion it seems the bubblewrap parents are gaining a foothold.
elblanco将近 15 年前
I really wonder if all these parents today were so tremendously traumatized by their freer range that they have to coop their kids up all day to avoid that kind of catastrophe? Are there really millions of child rearing adults suffering from PTSD because they go to ride the bus alone at 9? I've yet to really understand this strange phenomenon of the shrinking roaming area.<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462091/How-children-lost-right-roam-generations.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462091/How-children-...</a><p>I grew up in an urban area, then moved at 10 to a very rural one. In both places my "roaming" area was several miles in any direction from my house. In fact, my parents set my roaming area in the city to a specific triangle of roads that they felt were too big to and dangerous for me to cross, but weren't too mad when my friends and I did on occasion veer outside of those lines. If I had an older friend with us (he had to be at least 13) then we could pretty much go anywhere our feet or bikes could take us in a day.<p>I did this until I was about 10, then we moved to a very rural area and my boundaries became very large indeed...basically as far as I was able to walk.<p>My parent's were aghast when they were contacted by the local rural middle school after the principle had seen me cutting across an intersection in front of the school after class one day to get to the local shopping mall to hang out at the arcade. He demanded that I either take the bus home, or get a cab to take me literally across the street, an activity I had previously performed, at a much younger age, dozens of times a day.
gommm将近 15 年前
When I went to study for a semester in Rochester, I didn't have a car and tried at first to hitchhike.<p>What really surprised me was how scared most people were (especially when it was around 8pm at night) when I would approach them. It was as if they automatically thought that only a thief or a criminal would be coming to them in a car park.<p>In France, Spain and Germany (I used to walk 40 minutes to school there when I was 12), I've never seen that, people don't expect the worse to happen to them and don't seem to have their heads filled with tabloid whatifs scenarios or at least not yet.
评论 #1624096 未加载
julius_geezer将近 15 年前
"A year ago, journalist Lenore Skenazy caused a media sensation when she let her 9-year-old ride New York City’s subway by himself."<p>a) Outside of how many acres of Manhattan? b) Which lasted until when? The next silly-ass story for an ADHD media cycle, I suppose.<p>Back in the day (Kennedy administration) having your Mom walk with you to school was a fine way to be marked as a loser (though we didn't know that word yet). I usually read on my way to work, but I'm fairly sure I do see kids younger than middle school riding solo or at least without adult supervision on DC buses.
ibejoeb将近 15 年前
I would absolutely worry, but I hope I'd be able to let it happen.<p>This is a nice, semi-controlled experience that's probably good for everyone. Should the parent and child become separated, for example, I'd imagine that the knowledge each has--that arriving independently at a safe destination is routine--is serious peace of mind factor.<p>This is similar to the fire safety plans a lot of us did as kids. Didn't anyone else crawl out the window and down the fire escape and meet our parents a few blocks away, despite the building not actually burning, just to be prepared?
farmerbuzz将近 15 年前
I wonder if the outrage over this is part of the same trend described in the 20-somethings article ( <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1614280" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1614280</a> ). If kids are more sheltered, then it would make sense that it takes longer for them to "grow up" and start making decisions of their own. It could also explain why the partying and debauchery is so crazy at American colleges (the first real taste of independence), although I can't honestly say I know what its like anywhere else.
ifthen将近 15 年前
Times are different. I walked to school since kindergarten, but no way I let mine when it came time. (Certain years we drove just because we lived where there were no bus routes, and making a small kid walk that far with heavy backpacks just never made sense from a time POV.) Imagine that though, they actually survived my paranoia.<p>But now? No way unless they were a few years older. NYC needs to watch more of that news they dismiss: Attempted kidnappings happen a lot in the burbs. All paranoia is local though.
greenlblue将近 15 年前
This kind of thing is very common in almost every corner of the world where there are subways and in general a decent public transportation system. That's how my brother and I grew up. We were basically on our own since 1st grade because where I grew up everything was a two station ride and a block away.
评论 #1624170 未加载
shard将近 15 年前
Man alive! I was taking the bus home from school by myself from FIRST grade.
评论 #1623401 未加载
malkia将近 15 年前
Sorry, another post.<p>But what happened to the "Little Red Riding Hood Story"?<p>How do we interpret in nowadays US standards? I guess it makes sense, huh! The big bad wolf, right!
评论 #1623406 未加载
Mz将近 15 年前
I've lived without a car for about 2 1/2 years in Suburbia, USA. The character of my neighborhood has changed. You see more kids outside playing. Teens walk to the nearby shopping center now. So this stuff can change -- and I think it needs to. I think Peak Oil will compel America to make some changes of some sort. Hopefully, we will use it as an excuse for constructive changes.
dnsworks将近 15 年前
Ride a train? By the time my daughter is 9 she'll be flying alone back and forth betweenOK)