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The Law of the Somalis, a Nation Successful Without Any Central Government

36 点作者 dfps超过 7 年前

14 条评论

loriverkutya超过 7 年前
According to the British Goverment Somalia is not a successful nation:<p>&gt; The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to Somalia, including Somaliland except for the cities of Hargeisa and Berbera to which the FCO advise against all but essential travel. Any British nationals in areas of Somalia to which the FCO advise against all travel should leave. Any British nationals in Hargeisa or Berbera who are not on essential travel should leave.<p>&gt; Crime There is a dangerous level of criminal activity by armed militia throughout Somalia. There have been murders, armed robbery and a number of incidents of kidnapping. There are regular outbreaks of inter-clan violence throughout Somalia.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gov.uk&#x2F;foreign-travel-advice&#x2F;somalia" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gov.uk&#x2F;foreign-travel-advice&#x2F;somalia</a>
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Mediterraneo10超过 7 年前
I know that Somalia as an example of a successful country and not an unsuccessful one has become popular among a certain subset of libertarians. (Probably not any large subset, just particularly vocal advocates like the Mises Institute.) But I have always found this odd, because classical libertarians tend to insist on the rights of the <i>individual</i>, and law in Somalia is based on the primacy of clans and extended families where the individual doesn’t count for much.
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fredley超过 7 年前
&gt; functioning fine<p>Here is the US Overseas Security Advisory Council report on Somalia for 2017: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.osac.gov&#x2F;pages&#x2F;ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=21823" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.osac.gov&#x2F;pages&#x2F;ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=218...</a><p>&gt; Pervasive and violent crime is an extension of the general state of insecurity in Somalia. Serious, brutal, and often fatal crimes are common. Kidnapping and robbery are particular problems in Mogadishu, other areas in the south, and in Galmuduug and Puntland.
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shawndellysse超过 7 年前
&gt; It may be the only country in the world that has shown that they “don’t need central government” and was functioning fine.<p>For certain definitions of &quot;functioning fine&quot;, yeah sure I&#x27;ll buy that.
zentiggr超过 7 年前
&gt; Also, I have doubts about how the Somali system would survive serious clan or national conflicts once they emerge, or how the problem of violence spiraling out of hand would be contained without a powerful central government.<p>A quote directly from the article, and I can only say, I suppose we are seeing that. Blood feuds, mass killings and kidnappings, rape, ...<p>This entire source article could only have been written with the sturdiest and most carefully constructed horse-blinders.
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dsr_超过 7 年前
A relevant thought experiment:<p>How would you set up a social system, knowing that you would be reborn into it as a completely random member? That is, your chance of getting an education, having family stability, finding work and otherwise surviving being exactly in line with the way you set that system up from the beginning?<p>Secondarily relevant question: which existing system offers you the best probability of a satisfactory life given that random start? What features of that system make it better?
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sharemywin超过 7 年前
I find it awful interesting that the person whose book is being cited was killed.
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quantumofmalice超过 7 年前
As luck would have it, immigration to Somalia is both inexpensive and free from bureaucratic oversight, so I would encourage anyone who is inspired by this article to go with godspeed.
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teilo超过 7 年前
And this, despite being an advocate for personal freedom and limited government, is why I am not a libertarian or an anarcho-capitalist. They live in a fantasy land.<p>Culture matters, and no one form of government works for every nation. That is why it is just as much folly to impose western democracy upon the world as it would be to impose anarcho-capitalism upon the world.
peterwwillis超过 7 年前
From the historical perspective of great dynasties of civilized societies, central government is basically a byproduct of power struggle. One powerful group wants to impose their power on everyone else, or perhaps the whole society wants to impose the collective will on everyone else, so they create a central government. When that doesn&#x27;t happen, you get nations which are tied together by common bonds, but they decide matters by convening councils and mutual agreement and compromise, and don&#x27;t attempt to force their will. But all are usually happy to force their will on other nations.<p>Generally speaking, cultures that have strict observances of Gods that require things of their peoples are a lot more into imposing their will on others. Every society collectively agrees to buy into the way that society works, because the implicit threat is that if you don&#x27;t buy into it, your neighbor will kill you.
Wildgoose超过 7 年前
There is a difference between the formerly British controlled Somaliland and the former Italian colony of Somalia. The latter fell apart but the former retained a semblance of civil society. Without having read the article (it is blocked from my work account) I suspect the article is actually discussing Somaliland rather than Somalia.
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siculars超过 7 年前
By which measure are we determining success?
pitaj超过 7 年前
Here are some better articles about Somalia in the same vein as this one, which is sub-par.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mises.org&#x2F;library&#x2F;stateless-somalia-and-loving-it" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mises.org&#x2F;library&#x2F;stateless-somalia-and-loving-it</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mises.org&#x2F;library&#x2F;anarchy-somalia" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mises.org&#x2F;library&#x2F;anarchy-somalia</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-africa-12278628" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-africa-12278628</a>
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mtgx超过 7 年前
Let&#x27;s send Peter Thiel there. I&#x27;m sure he&#x27;d love it.
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