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Leveraging Bitcoin to Solve Venezuela’s Hyperinflation

44 点作者 dpapathanasiou大约 7 年前

16 条评论

firekvz大约 7 年前
Venezuelan here.<p>This won&#x27;t work.<p>Our problems go way beyond having a way to store our wealth<p>It&#x27;s literally impossible to do bitcoin transactions in normal circunstances because this is not San Francisco and your regular store doesn&#x27;t even have internet access, we have one of the worts internet acess in the world [1].<p>Then there is the problem created by the violence&#x2F;crime[2]. I myself have to leave my phone at home everytime I go out, there is no way to take public transportation regulary without suffering a robery, it&#x27;s just so common that it became a meme within Venezuelans.<p>There has been so many cases where people has been killed over the most stupid and trivial things to the point that if you google from venezuela &quot;lo mataron por ______&quot; (Murdered because ____) you get pages and pages of crazy reasons of why venezuelans have killed other venezuelans. Fast examples:<p>Murdered for playing carnival (throwing water ballons to other ppl during carnival, venezuelan tradition) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.el-carabobeno.com&#x2F;lo-mataron-de-un-disparo-por-jugar-carnaval&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.el-carabobeno.com&#x2F;lo-mataron-de-un-disparo-por-j...</a><p>Murdered to steal 60$ he had on his pocket: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;runrun.es&#x2F;nacional&#x2F;337760&#x2F;monitordevictimas-mataron-a-hombre-en-petare-para-robarle-60-que-usaria-para-irse-a-peru.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;runrun.es&#x2F;nacional&#x2F;337760&#x2F;monitordevictimas-mataron-a...</a><p>So now imagine someone figures out that I have bitcoins and that they have a value of lets say 300$. There is no fucking way I will risk my life that way.<p>So in order to use bitcoin in Venezuela i have to do this:<p>1. Risk my life by having to pull my phone or using my phone outside.<p>2. Risk my life by letting others know that I own&#x2F;hold bitcoin.<p>The merchant has to:<p>1. Fight all the problems to be able to accept it (electricity problems, internet access).<p>2. Hope that someone doesnt just come into your store and steal your hardware.<p>3. Gov crazy actions.<p>------<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.speedtest.net&#x2F;global-index&#x2F;venezuela" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.speedtest.net&#x2F;global-index&#x2F;venezuela</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Crime_in_Venezuela" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Crime_in_Venezuela</a>
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deftnerd大约 7 年前
The author seems to be ignorant of some real facts related to Bitcoin availability. Lightning Network going live on Mainnet was against the advice of the LN developers who feel that it&#x27;s not ready for prime-time usage and admit that the network cannot scale very large without some core difficulties being solved.<p>Additionally, the transaction fees have dropped not because of the introduction of LN or batched transactions or SegWit adoption, but because of the decline of Bitcoin transactions in general. Enough retailers have stopped accepting Bitcoin that there are fewer transactions and the fee-market pressure has lowered. Adding in an entire nation of people using Bitcoin multiple times a day, even with some of them on LN, will bring usage and fees to unseen-before levels.
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MadSudaca大约 7 年前
There are far better cryptocurrencies to do this than BTC. Today, an actual venezuelan, part of the team working on a cryptocurrency called Nano, twitted that he paid for his meal with it.<p>This would have never been possible with BTC, why? Mainly because the meal&#x27;s cost was .5 NANO, which currently amounts to ~5 USD, that would have been the cost of the transaction fee alone for BTC, or even more. Nano is feeless and has transactions taking 10 seconds on average to complete.<p>Nano is a cryptocurrency that is already making an impact in Venezuela specifically, check it out. Bitcoin days are numbered.<p>Tweet: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Mrlutavo&#x2F;status&#x2F;963948510679830528" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Mrlutavo&#x2F;status&#x2F;963948510679830528</a><p>Nano&#x27;s website: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nano.org&#x2F;en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nano.org&#x2F;en</a>
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arcticfox大约 7 年前
Why is this better, or different, than just helping Venezuelans obtain and use the USD that they already want [1]? If it&#x27;s a matter of government controls, the government will surely apply the same policy to BTC.<p>I realize that he tried to address this in the article, but the reasons are contrived. And the &quot;$5 wrench attack&quot; simply won&#x27;t stop when you only give up one wallet.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;parallels&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;24&#x2F;293874845&#x2F;short-on-dollars-venezuela-tries-to-halt-black-market-trading" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;parallels&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;24&#x2F;293874845&#x2F;...</a>
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dragontamer大约 7 年前
The thought of a very rich man from one of the most developed countries in the world, giving away tons of BTC in an attempt to &quot;solve Venesuela&#x27;s problems&quot; strikes me as arrogant and naive. The heart is in the right place. But different countries work differently. It would take someone who knows a lot about Venezuela to solve Venezuela&#x27;s problems.<p>Take &quot;PlayPump&quot; as a word of caution. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Roundabout_PlayPump" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Roundabout_PlayPump</a><p>Massive charity handouts almost always end in dismal failure. Because the philanthropists don&#x27;t understand the core problem, and thus the money is inevitably wasted.<p>----------------<p>Instead, Bill Gate&#x27;s model of &quot;Economic Philanthropy&quot; looks like it can truly scale. Bill Gates <i>sells</i> malaria nets and vaccines to the people of Africa. Why?<p>Because if the customer doesn&#x27;t want to pay for it, its probably because the customer <i>knows something you don&#x27;t know</i>. Malaria Nets were the solution: the people of Africa buys it, and that&#x27;s how we know that its a good solution.<p>Bitcoin is <i>already</i> a potential solution to the people of Venezuela. If the people of Venezuela believed in Bitcoin, they&#x27;d be buying it. They&#x27;re not dumb. Very likely, for reasons unbeknownst to us, they&#x27;ve chosen to do something else. We have to trust THEIR decision on this. After all, Venezuelan citizens are living in the crisis. They likely know more about their own situation than any Goldman Sachs executive who has lived in the USA.<p>Alternatively: if BTC is a solution and Venezuelan citizens are buying up BTC, then the problem will solve itself without need of a handout. IIRC, I&#x27;ve heard some stories about some businessmen in Venezuela using BTC before. But I live thousands of miles away: its hard for me to know if its an isolated curiosity or something that really is permeating the nation.<p>Any valid solution that benefits a Venezuelan Citizen, would allow us to &quot;sell&quot; said solution to those citizens. One-sided charity efforts are often doomed to failure.
badgers大约 7 年前
In 1992 Brazil faced similar inflation numbers (80% per month, or 1156% per year compared to what the article claims 1219% for Venezuela). I&#x27;m surprised the author does not reference Brazil in their article. The NPR Planet Money podcast&#x2F;article does a good job of summarizing the events of 1992 [1].<p>In the Brazil situation the country had control of both currencies and could set the exchange rate. I don&#x27;t see how using Bitcoin would eliminate the problem that the country is experiencing: an unstable currency. Most developed countries target around 2% inflation. Bitcoin has not had that kind of stability recently.<p>Additionally to be a good currency you want people to think in terms of it, e.g. I&#x27;m paying for this coffee with 0.005 bitcoins, not I&#x27;m paying for this coffee with $5 worth of bitcoins.<p>[1] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;money&#x2F;2010&#x2F;10&#x2F;04&#x2F;130329523&#x2F;how-fake-money-saved-brazil" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;money&#x2F;2010&#x2F;10&#x2F;04&#x2F;130329523&#x2F;how-...</a>
CryptoPunk大约 7 年前
The LN network has major limitations that don&#x27;t allow it to be a full substitute for on-chain transactions.<p>Let&#x27;s look at how it affects savers for example. LN channels have a maximum debit-delta capacity established by their BTC collateral. When one party is receiving BTC much more often than they&#x27;re sending it, the LN channel reaches capacity, and a new LN transaction has to be created with its own collateral.<p>Any party that saves any portion of their revenue will quickly see their LN channels filled, and new ones required.<p>This essentially means that low-income savers, like what you would expect to see in Venezuela, will see their income eaten up by transaction fees for continual LN channel setup transactions.<p>The author should have looked to Bitcoin Cash, which will permit low-cost on-chain transactions at large scale usage levels, or Ethereum. Ethereum is processing 4X as many transactions, representing several times as much USD value, as Bitcoin per day. Its transaction fees are much lower and it has a comprehensive on-chain scaling plan that it is pursuing.
rb808大约 7 年前
For crypto currencies, don&#x27;t you need reliable electricity and internet first?
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prodikl大约 7 年前
lots of negativity here. i think it&#x27;s a cool idea, and i hope he runs with this. if you&#x27;re problem with bitcoin is &quot;it&#x27;s not quite perfect enough&quot; then that&#x27;s a bad reason to not attempt this<p>it has obvious benefits (and some cons) over the bolivar or a foreign fiat currency, but ya know, baby with the bathwater<p>i look forward to seeing where this goes<p>but i do agree about LN mainnet not being appropriate to use yet
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helthanatos大约 7 年前
Suite. Use the imaginary commodity that can&#x27;t keep it&#x27;s value to solve inflation because the currency is controlled by a tyrannical government. It&#x27;s probably easier to overthrow their government than use a currency that will soon be outlawed.
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matthoiland大约 7 年前
This is fantastic. Disasters, while terrible, should be the time to think outside the box. Similar to Puerto Rico and the solar experiment – hopefully Venezuela and Bitcoin will be the proof of concept that convinces the &quot;adults&quot;.
JonnyNova大约 7 年前
I&#x27;m always a bit suspicious of articles like this that plug for specifically bitcoin versus cryptocurrencies as a whole. Many cryptos can help to fill the needs of Venezuelan citizens. Are we not talking about them since they won&#x27;t make the author rich?
tmaly大约 7 年前
Was this related to the recent 400 million in Bitcoin that was purchased?
_Codemonkeyism大约 7 年前
&quot;Imagine that you could flee Nazi Germany with all of your capital using nothing more than a password in your head&quot;<p>It&#x27;s sad so many people know so few things about history. Fleeing with your money was not the problem.
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_Codemonkeyism大约 7 年前
The government will make Bitcoin the same way illegal as US dollars.<p>Then they can&#x27;t easily control Bitcoin.<p>Then they will increase prison sentences for owning Bitcoins and Bitcoin apps.<p>Then they will not be able to control that.<p>Then they will monitor the internet for bitcoin transfers.<p>Then they will outlaw any encryption.<p>Then they will send out undercover police who try to pay with Bitcoin.<p>etc.<p>No government well let anyone take away their privilege to print money.
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Feniks大约 7 年前
At least Venezuela exists. What is backing bitcoin? Faith? Worse, blind faith?
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