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Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

137 点作者 bertzzie大约 7 年前

19 条评论

radagast大约 7 年前
This has been discussed for as long as I remember myself (am 30 now). First it was the influence of english in TV (we only dub childrens shows and movies). I came unscattered from my youth and really doubt that my children won&#x27;t be as good or better at icelandic than me.<p>Everyone has learned icelandic, basic danish and advanced english at age 16. From the age 16-20 majority of kids add a fourth language which is either french, german or spanish. I&#x27;m now extra grateful for all the languages that I was exposed too in school even though I didn&#x27;t find them interesting at the time. It&#x27;s easy to communicating and understanding the basics when travelling.<p>And I really love my language and I&#x27;m sure that it&#x27;ll hold up just fine for the next decades. I know few examples of families with children that have grown up abroad and yes, their grammar often is strange but they speak quite well and they feel a connection back &quot;home&quot; through the language.
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cal5k大约 7 年前
Just got back from Iceland! (I&#x27;m Canadian) Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English. Then they&#x27;ll switch to almost perfect English, with remarkably few exceptions. It was pretty amazing.<p>In small towns like Akureryi, there&#x27;s a lot of local pressure to keep signs mostly in Icelandic. I was actually surprised by this since there were a lot of English-speaking tourists in the area, but I respect it thoroughly. It&#x27;s their country, I should learn how to get around.<p>Oh, as an aside - as someone who is single and still uses the various datings apps, I was also impressed by how idiomatically correct their english was even down to slang and figures of speech. There&#x27;s clearly a large influence from American media.<p>If you&#x27;re travelling to Iceland, take the time to learn a few basic Icelandic phrases - the locals have a lot of pride in their culture and will love you for it.
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johan_larson大约 7 年前
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, yes, it&#x27;s a pity to see a cultural artifact like a language fade away. I get that. But on the other hand, having the world Balkanized into thousands of mutually incomprehensible linguistic ghettoes is a bad thing, because it makes it harder to get things done on large scales. Things would just be easier if we spoke a manageable handful of languages.
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bjourne大约 7 年前
Same thing with Swedish. :( I feel kind of guilty myself because as a developer, I write almost exclusively in English. Most software related terms simply don&#x27;t exist in Swedish and with everyone using English no new words are being invented.<p>It&#x27;s even worse with the younger generation. They can&#x27;t even use Swedish idioms so they switch to English. For example, they might know and use &quot;You&#x27;re on thin ice&quot; but don&#x27;t know what &quot;Ute på hal is&quot; eller &quot;Ute på tunn is&quot; means. If I say &quot;det ligger en hund begraven här&quot; they will look at me funnily and not understand what I mean. However, if I say &quot;Something smells fishy&quot; they will know.<p>People older than me used even funnier idioms that no one uses anymore. For example &quot;Du ler förnöjt som en katt som nyss svalt en kanariefågel.&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t know what to do about it, if anything. :&#x2F; Undoubtedly, it is easier if everyone speaks the same language. But it is also much less interesting and much less diverse.
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ocschwar大约 7 年前
Hebrew, like Icelandic, is subject to a conscious effort to maintain its character as it modernises. Icelanders want their new vocabulary to stay Norse, as opposed to the far less picky tendencies of everyone else who uses Germanic languages. With Hebrew, it&#x27;s keeping things Semitic. New words should be derived from Arabic&#x2F;Aramaic&#x2F;Maltese&#x2F;Ethiopian sources before anything else, and if that fails, first go to Persian, Greek or Latin before getting words from English or French.<p>Icelanders are going to have a harder time of it, because English can worm its way into Icelandic more easily than it can enter into Hebrew. Plus they have less of a critical mass.
spraak大约 7 年前
Reverse example: I&#x27;ve only [1] let my child consume Swedish media (mostly the SVT app Barnkanalen, while we live in the US) and their accent is really good, and they often correct me and remind me of how something should be said.<p>[1] Not 100%. They still watch e.g. Moana in English, or sometimes watch shows in German, French, some English ones, etc.
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luxpir大约 7 年前
Learn Icelandic for free online, via the gov-supported course:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;icelandiconline.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;icelandiconline.com&#x2F;</a><p>Goes up to advanced level. The appeal for me is the ability to understand one of the least changed old European languages, much akin to our Old English. One that is bizarrely and amazingly still spoken.<p>Admittedly I do speak a fair bit of Swedish, potentially making things easier, but even without that there are many cognates that make learning it easier for English-speakers. Or German-speakers, for that matter.
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irrational大约 7 年前
I visited Iceland for 2 weeks in April of 2016 (doing the ring road). Without exception, everyone we met spoke great English. One day we were eating dinner in a small cafe in the north part of the island. Our server&#x27;s English was so perfect we were convinced he grew up somewhere in the US. He informed us that he had never left his village and had just picked it up from American TV, movies, etc. Amazing.
cletus大约 7 年前
In a world of agricultural monocultures, it&#x27;s not really surprising that languages fade while others become increasingly dominant.<p>Language is really an artifact of isolation and distance. In an incredibly connected world, the pressure changes from divergence to convergence.<p>Like other commenters, I have mixed feelings about this. Another used the word &quot;balkanized&quot; (which is a great word) to describe a world divided by incomprehensible language.<p>Others note that a monoculture isn&#x27;t the only solution. (Bi|multi)lingualism is another alternative. Multilingualism was the historical response to a world becoming increasingly connected. My great-grandfather grew up in an area where he spoke Russian, French, German and Latvian... by necessity. Depending on which way the political winds were blowing his generation could be conscripted into the Russian or German (maybe Prussian at this point) armies.<p>That works fine when your sphere is your country and neighbouring countries. But now the sphere is increasingly &quot;the world&quot;.<p>Multilingualism seems to be somewhat cultural and, more importantly, is something that&#x27;s passed down from one generation to the next. Older children and adults can (and do) acquire new languages with varying success (some are adept, others are not). It seems like if you don&#x27;t have this from birth you&#x27;re kinda screwed. If there&#x27;s no pressure for you to use another language, you&#x27;re also kinda screwed.<p>This comes up particularly in the English speaking world where those countries that have English as the predominant first language tend to have no pressure to use another language nor the cultural heritage of multilingualism.<p>It seems inevitable to me that the world is heading towards a future with a handful of remaining languages. Obvious candidates include English, Arabic, Mandarin, Spanish, Hindi and Russian.
aestetix大约 7 年前
I think that the idea that all languages but English are going to fade away makes sense to people who only speak English.<p>I&#x27;ve lived in Germany for a couple years, and have noticed that when native English speakers come here, the Germans all speak to them in English, and when the English speakers go away, the Germans immediately revert back to their native tongue. They can usually do the same for French speakers and sometimes Spanish or Italian too. What this means is that Europeans speak several languages, and English speakers speak one, and therefore English speakers only encounter English.<p>I suspect the same is true in Iceland, but I have never been there so I can&#x27;t say for sure.
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hyperrail大约 7 年前
Windows has provided UI language packs for Icelandic since at least the release of Windows 8.0 in 2012, and now offers them for supported versions starting with Windows 7: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;help&#x2F;14236&#x2F;language-packs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;help&#x2F;14236&#x2F;language-pack...</a> (The UI translation&#x2F;localization is partial; the most read strings are in Icelandic, but the rest are typically in English, and you need to install the English UI language pack to load those strings.)<p>And if you go to Bing&#x27;s website <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bing.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bing.com</a> and set your browser to request webpages in Icelandic (via an &quot;Accept-Language: is&quot; HTTP header), then much of the website changes to Icelandic. However, the search query auto-complete suggestions and the search results will only be in Icelandic if you are in Iceland yourself.<p>From the article, it seems like the Guardian reporter either didn&#x27;t know this, or doesn&#x27;t think Microsoft is important (!):<p>&gt; Online, however, is the biggest concern. Apart from Google – which, mainly because it has an Icelandic engineer, has added Icelandic speech recognition to its Android mobile operating system – the internet giants have no interest in offering Icelandic options for a population the size of Cardiff’s.
remir大约 7 年前
I wonder what will happen to languages and culture when we will eventually be able to transmit direct thoughts to another person using brain implants or other tech. Imagine being able to communicate without any possibility of misunderstanding. The idea you have in mind is the exact idea the other person receives.
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jonathanyc大约 7 年前
Not to be trite, but note that Iceland&#x27;s total population (~300k) is less than half of San Francisco&#x27;s (~800k).<p>&gt; “It’s called ‘digital minoritisation’,” said Eiríkur Rögnvaldsson, a professor of Icelandic language and linguistics at the University of Iceland. “When a majority language in the real world becomes a minority language in the digital world.”<p>This makes the phrase &quot;digital minoritisation&quot; seem pretty silly. We should definitely try to protect the heritage of uncommonly spoken languages like Icelandic, Basque, etc. But it&#x27;s not clear why the plight of Icelandic, a language with its &quot;own country,&quot; is particularly deserving of this sort of dramatization.
gabordemooij大约 7 年前
I am creating a programming language that supports native languages, I would love to release a version in this language. If any of you here is a native Icelandic speaker pls contact me and help me create a proper translation (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;citrine-lang.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;citrine-lang.org&#x2F;</a>)! I&#x27;ll send you a dictionary file that contains the translation strings (from everything like IF-ELSE to CREATEHASH and so on...)
lopmotr大约 7 年前
Oh no, not another save-the-language story. As with all of them, it takes for granted the assumption that it needs saving but doesn&#x27;t explain why beyond &quot;cultural heritage&quot;. Why do people need to persist the same culture as their parents and grandparents? Whatever good that does should be more than the cost of learning it and using it everywhere. Does anyone know what the good of maintaining a little-used language is?<p>In my country we have a similar issue except the local language was artificially revived from dead so there&#x27;s no or almost no unbroken chain of native speakers. There&#x27;s still debate about how some (English) letters are supposed to be pronounced. They&#x27;ve added useful words, then changed them to sound more authentic. Eg days of the week used to be transliterations from English but now they&#x27;re references to various native Gods and things. The whole concept of a week didn&#x27;t exist in the original culture so how can authentic day names exist at all?! It&#x27;s a big effort with no justification.<p>It leads to things like this gem of nonsense in an code of practice for electrical work:<p>&quot;From a Maori perspective, the term “earth” or Papatuanuku translates as Earth Mother – the source of all energy. When aligning this concept to the flow of electricity, a useful parallel can be made to the 3-pin plug.&quot;
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bitcoinboi9大约 7 年前
Very easy, make Duolingo as a CAPTCHA for translating the web into Icelandic.
microcolonel大约 7 年前
Well, they could start by making Icelandic accessible to the outside world, good luck learning it outside Iceland.
elliottkember大约 7 年前
&quot;Icelandic is spoken today by barely 340,000 people&quot;<p>The population of Iceland is 334,252.
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erfgh大约 7 年前
This is bullshit and you can mostly write the same article for any non-English language.
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