TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Uber, Lyft Drivers Earning a Median Profit of $3.37 per Hour, Study Says

217 点作者 javabank大约 7 年前

34 条评论

thisisit大约 7 年前
Discussed 12hrs ago:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551</a>
misterbishop大约 7 年前
Discussing a rideshare worker&#x27;s take-home pay as &quot;profit&quot; really accepts the framing of the company. Yes it&#x27;s technically true that each driver is an independent contractor (&quot;Small Business Owner&quot;), but this designation is a farce without the ability to set pricing. The take-home pay isn&#x27;t profit in practice, it&#x27;s wages less unreimbursed expenses.
评论 #16503011 未加载
评论 #16502275 未加载
eddieplan9大约 7 年前
It&#x27;s important to not use the IRS Mileage Rate to calculate real cost. (The linked study does not.) The IRS rate is designed for the worst case scenario for the purpose of tax filing (coz you don&#x27;t want to penalize someone who has to drive a F-150 in a high-gas-price state in a year where gas price spikes to $5&#x2F;gallon). Even if we don&#x27;t consider the fact that the cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance and insurance is an &quot;almost-fixed&quot; or marginal cost because you are going to own the vehicle and pay for the insurance any way, and let&#x27;s be generous about estimating the cost here:<p>At IRS rate of $0.54 a mile, let&#x27;s say we buy a Prius (which is the most popular car used for ridesharing), for $23,000, and drive it for 100,000 miles and throw it away.<p>At IRS rate, that&#x27;s a cost of $54,000.<p>Gas cost is about $8,000 (50MPG [1], $4&#x2F;gallon). Insurance $1500 x 5 years ($1200 base insurance + $300 extra for rideshare add-on [2]). That still leaves us $15,500 (28.7% of estimated cost) to cover repair deductible etc. That&#x27;s almost enough to buy another Prius.<p>Edits: I mistakenly said the study used IRS Mileage Rate. It does not.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikes-review.com&#x2F;does-a-toyota-prius-really-get-50-miles-per-gallon.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikes-review.com&#x2F;does-a-toyota-prius-really-get-50-mi...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nerdwallet.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;insurance&#x2F;best-ridesharing-insurance&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nerdwallet.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;insurance&#x2F;best-ridesharing-i...</a>
评论 #16504285 未加载
评论 #16504333 未加载
评论 #16504274 未加载
derekp7大约 7 年前
The problem isn&#x27;t the profit, but that there are a number of people using this as one of their primary income sources. I&#x27;m not sure how Uber et. al was originally promoted to drivers, but I&#x27;ve originally seen it as something like &quot;I&#x27;m heading home from work, let me turn on my uber app and see if anyone around me needs a ride going in that direction&quot;.<p>Or, &quot;I feel like riding around tonight, no particular place to go, may as well see if I can make a couple bucks by giving others a lift&quot;. I know that back when I was around 18 - 22 or so, I would often spend a saturday night just cruising with the radio playing, windows down, and enjoying the ride.
评论 #16502325 未加载
评论 #16502939 未加载
评论 #16502227 未加载
评论 #16503161 未加载
评论 #16502346 未加载
评论 #16503923 未加载
评论 #16503788 未加载
评论 #16502317 未加载
评论 #16504201 未加载
csomar大约 7 年前
Two things:<p>1. The cost is absorbed by another entity, usually the parents. It is the parents&#x27; car, or your parents bought you a car. You need some quick cash, so you basically &quot;eat out&quot; of that car to generate that &quot;cash&quot;.<p>2. You are trapped in a situation where you need quick cash. So you &quot;eat out&quot; of your vehicle to generate that cash. This also happens when you have a low &quot;realization&quot; consciousness. (ie: You are bad at math and economics and you think you are making money while you are losing money).<p>By driving Uber you are exposing yourself to greater risks: Accidents, Lawsuits and Lost opportunities have you been doing something else. But most people either have low realizations or are trapped. Usually both of them.<p>I have seen countless of people getting into this kind of business. One of them and probably the biggest is real-estate renting when the economics says NO! The argument is usually: well, it is sitting there anyway so any cash is a profit. It is not and it usually led to worse financial situations and then worse decisions.
评论 #16502634 未加载
评论 #16502799 未加载
评论 #16504493 未加载
评论 #16502760 未加载
评论 #16503884 未加载
rodonn大约 7 年前
This paper has actual data on earnings from all Uber drivers in all cities in the US. They find that the average earnings are $20 per hour with a standard deviation of $5 (there is substantial variation across cities and especially across time, with late nights on weekends being especially high earning). <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nber.org&#x2F;papers&#x2F;w23296" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nber.org&#x2F;papers&#x2F;w23296</a> The authors are very well respected economists from UCLA and Yale, though it should be noted that one author was a former Uber employee.<p>This is substantially higher than the estimates in this newer study unless you think that the per hour operating costs of a car are $16 per hour. The new study bases it&#x27;s numbers on self reported values from a relatively small sample, which is much less accurate than calculating an average using Uber&#x27;s actual full database.<p>Another interesting finding from the study I linked is that a majority of Uber drivers work 20 or fewer hours per week and place a substantial value on the flexibility that they get from being able to choose their own hours.
评论 #16504336 未加载
评论 #16504275 未加载
Liquix大约 7 年前
What is the incentive to drive for one of these services at that price point? Couldn&#x27;t these people make more money (and not have to replace their car in five years) flipping burgers or the like?<p>Are drivers misled into believing they will make more? Is the cost per mile intentionally hidden from them?
评论 #16502300 未加载
评论 #16502003 未加载
评论 #16502002 未加载
评论 #16502063 未加载
评论 #16502101 未加载
评论 #16502347 未加载
评论 #16503827 未加载
评论 #16502124 未加载
评论 #16502457 未加载
bparsons大约 7 年前
The flaw in these studies are the assumption that the person would not have a car unless they were an Uber&#x2F;Lyft driver. This has a huge impact on the final per hour calculations.<p>If the vehicle is a fixed cost for the person regardless of whether or not they are a driver, then factoring in the cost and depreciation of the vehicle isn&#x27;t really a fair measure.
评论 #16503351 未加载
评论 #16503310 未加载
评论 #16504466 未加载
martin_bech大约 7 年前
3 problems.<p>1. This is at subsidised Uber pricing, where Uber is loosing money at an alarming rate.<p>2. This means driving for Uber is terrible economicly.<p>3. This also implies that even getting to driverless cars, Uber will only save 3.37 per hour, not making the business model viable, I would think.
评论 #16502245 未加载
评论 #16502260 未加载
评论 #16502703 未加载
jdlyga大约 7 年前
Uber, Lyft, and Juno only exist because the Taxi apps are bad or non-existent. If there was a Taxi app that worked exactly like these 3 apps, and not just for hailing taxis, then there would be no need for this.
评论 #16503854 未加载
tibbon大约 7 年前
In speaking with various drivers I&#x27;ve had I either hear that driving for [Lyft|Uber] is great, or terrible. There&#x27;s rarely any in between.<p>I&#x27;ve had drivers who had worked with them for years, and seemed to be really happy, also new ones who were happy. Perhaps they have lower living expenses, or this is more pay than they made at other ventures, or uniquely fits their lives.<p>And I&#x27;ve had others who are really frustrated with the app, the GPS, traffic, the company, their compensation, the Pooling services, riders, etc.<p>Of note these are generally in the same geographic areas roughly (Boston and SF is where I ride most and flip between services as needed), so in theory it&#x27;s sampling from a similar population.<p>One thing in particular I&#x27;ve asked drivers is if pool-services work ok for them. About half say yes and seem to love it, and the other half grumble that it never makes them any money.<p>I really wish I knew the other factors that go into this to understand the root causes better.
评论 #16503821 未加载
zemvpferreira大约 7 年前
I wonder how much airbnb hosts are making. In Lisbon most airbnb hosts are amateurs who spend a few hours every week cleaning and greeting, and get the bejeezus taxed out of their parallel activity. I wonder if they’re doing any better than “transportation entrepreneurs” working for ridesharing companies.
评论 #16502774 未加载
vlovich123大约 7 年前
I analyzed the math here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16503218" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16503218</a><p>TLDR: It&#x27;s probably correct but also highly misleading in how it&#x27;s characterized.
filesystem大约 7 年前
“Of the five sources of cost estimated per mile (Insurance, Maintenance, Repairs, Fuel and Depreciation), approximately 40% of costs are attributable to Insurance, Maintenance and Repairs, 40% to fuel expenses, and 20% to depreciation.”<p>I don’t understand how insurance is a relevant cost. Insurance is required to legally operate a vehicle - this is something that they must have for their personal vehicle regardless of whether or not they are driving for Uber or Lyft. The only way this is a relevant cost is if they own their vehicle for the sole purpose of Uber or Lyft driving. I have to imagine that this is usually not the case.
评论 #16501909 未加载
评论 #16502045 未加载
评论 #16501939 未加载
评论 #16501900 未加载
评论 #16502005 未加载
评论 #16502138 未加载
评论 #16504073 未加载
sol_remmy大约 7 年前
This is a duplicate. Previously: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551</a>
eqdw大约 7 年前
Ways in which this headline is potentially misleading:<p>1) Driving for Uber&#x2F;Lyft&#x2F;etc is not a full time job, and was not intended to be a full time job. It&#x27;s a piecemeal work side job. The flexibility of working when you want, and not working when you don&#x27;t want, is valuable and you don&#x27;t get it for free.<p>2) &quot;Profit&quot; is not income. This is profit net of expenses. Expenses that, among other things, you can write off against your income. And to pre-empt the &quot;Uber drivers can&#x27;t afford tax accountants&quot; criticism, Turbotax costs $50<p>3) The profitability of Uber driving can vary dramatically place to place. I often ask Uber drivers in SF how they like their jobs, what they make, etc. They consistently report to me that they make between $40k and $55k&#x2F;yr. This is significantly higher than &quot;below minimum wage&quot;. OTOH, I imagine that driving Ubers in a low density place, where cabs are less financially viable (say, Fargo) is a shitty job. Averaging across the San Franciscos and the Fargos of the country to say &quot;Uber is a terrible job&quot; is not an accurate representation of the facts.
评论 #16502748 未加载
评论 #16502770 未加载
评论 #16502955 未加载
评论 #16504056 未加载
评论 #16502923 未加载
qudat大约 7 年前
And yet people still do it. I guess the drivers still find it useful, if they didn&#x27;t, why would they continue driving?
评论 #16503811 未加载
graeme大约 7 年前
In my city (Montreal) there are some Uber drivers who seem very content and have driven for 3+ years.<p>They often have very nice cars. What is going on: are these drivers just doing it as a hobby? Are they somehow earning more than others?<p>One would assume that you can be fooled and stay in the game for 3-9 months at $3.37 an hour, but not 3+ years.
评论 #16502894 未加载
phkahler大约 7 年前
At $0.59 per mile these guys are stiffed really really hard. The IRS recommendation is over $0.50 per mile:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irs.gov&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;standard-mileage-rates-for-2018-up-from-rates-for-2017" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.irs.gov&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;standard-mileage-rates-for-2018...</a><p>Perhaps these companies should charge at least that rate, not to mention the drivers should be setting their own rates on top of that.<p>With an average speed of about 20mph (EPA urban drive cycle) you would need to &quot;profit&quot; about $0.50 per mile to make $10 per hour. I&#x27;m not gonna look up minimum wage and it varies per state, but anyone charging less than $1 per mile to give you a ride would seem to be screwing themselves over and would be better off flipping burgers.
cypherg大约 7 年前
Questionable statistics. I know several people who driver rideshares for a secondary income and do quite well. They&#x27;re not irrationally wasting their time. They&#x27;re using vehicles that they&#x27;re _already_ paying insurance on, et cetera. From their POV, they either drive rideshares and make money (couple hundred bucks maybe), or stay at home and relax. They&#x27;ve explained to me that they do it because their bored or have free time.
评论 #16502801 未加载
dpflan大约 7 年前
To support any discussion on this post, here is an earlier HN post of the same content but from a different source:<p>&gt; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16498551</a><p>&gt; The MIT CEEPR Research: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ceepr.mit.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;papers&#x2F;2018-005-Brief.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ceepr.mit.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;papers&#x2F;2018-005-Brief.pdf</a>
ec109685大约 7 年前
The maintenance, insurance and depreciation cost of driving Uber an unlimited miles a week is $214 a week, minus a profit margin for a company like Hertz: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hertz.com&#x2F;rentacar&#x2F;misc&#x2F;index.jsp?targetPage=UberFAQs.jsp" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hertz.com&#x2F;rentacar&#x2F;misc&#x2F;index.jsp?targetPage=Ube...</a><p>So any study that says it is more expensive than that to drive for Uber is wrong.
评论 #16502656 未加载
_zachs大约 7 年前
Good thing no one is being forced to drive for Uber. If your main source of income is from being a ride-share driver, the problem isn&#x27;t with Uber.
评论 #16504119 未加载
nocobot大约 7 年前
I&#x27;d be interested to see what the median profit would look like after adjusting for COL. My guess would be that most high earning drivers are in areas with high population density (thus also likely to be more expensive) so I&#x27;m not sure if the increased hourly rate necessarily implies that they are doing better.
xivzgrev大约 7 年前
I think the methodology is flawed to mix data sources like this. They shouldve surveyed drivers on their costs too.
davemel37大约 7 年前
Ironically, Lyft is advertising to recruit drivers on this very article! Sometimes ad targeting misses the boat.
评论 #16502824 未加载
AlphaSite大约 7 年前
Does this include the bonus incentives? From my conversations that’s where the money actually is.
yomly大约 7 年前
Anecdata: I talked with an Uber driver the other day in London who said his weekly target was to make £1000 gross per week and would adjust hours (ie less or more) accordingly. On the side he was trying to bootstrap a business.
mseebach大约 7 年前
I&#x27;m curious as to how they measure hours worked, to come up with the per-hour figure. The brief of the study doesn&#x27;t mention it at all.
gyrgtyn大约 7 年前
We should make a web spreadsheet Uber Profits Calculator and a nice little print flyer to quietly leave behind in the back seat.
评论 #16504027 未加载
cryoshon大约 7 年前
it&#x27;s almost like i detailed this phenomenon two years ago.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cryoshon.co&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;11&#x2F;why-the-sharing-economy-is-awful&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cryoshon.co&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;11&#x2F;why-the-sharing-economy-is-aw...</a>
toblender大约 7 年前
Vs. 0 dollars if these services did not exist.
评论 #16501885 未加载
评论 #16501934 未加载
评论 #16501905 未加载
评论 #16504163 未加载
jdpigeon大约 7 年前
&#x27;If drivers are fully able to capitalize on these losses for tax purposes, 73.5% of an estimated U.S. market $4.8B in annual ride-hailing driver profit is untaxed,&quot; they add.&#x27;<p>So they might be making money, but only by avoiding taxes. Great. &#x2F;s
评论 #16501973 未加载
saas_co_de大约 7 年前
It does seem that there are glaring flaws in the methodology:<p>1) They use average numbers for vehicle expenses which are going to be much higher than what professional drivers with strong profit incentives are going to pay<p>2) They report on a sampled average of all Uber drivers while acknowledging that the vast majority of these are part time and temporary employees who are not really optimizing their profits. If they looked only that those who do Uber full time or for more than temporary work they would get a completely different story.
评论 #16501969 未加载
评论 #16502258 未加载
评论 #16501940 未加载