Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

565 点作者 jamessun大约 7 年前

34 条评论

Blog author from Keybase here. Always game for a Hacker News discussion!There's a subtle point I cut from my post for simplicity reasons, but which feels perfect for HN. I've been convinced by Mazières and the Stellar team that the classic "blockchain" works great for native tokens but is extremely dangerous for anything with counterparty redemption. For example, imagine the shitshow after a truly contentious fork, if there are tokens which are supposed to be redeemable with a counterparty.Let's say Deutsche Bank had put €1 billion into colored coins on Bitcoin. Suddenly, after a fork (e.g. bitcoin vs. bitcoin cash), there would be €2 billion IOU's in the wild. The people on each side of that fork would not roll over and die, and it's not simple to say "Oh, whoever Deutsche picks wins." Or even "Whoever has the strongest chain wins." I have a hard time imagining a company would ever take that risk. I worry big companies would never dare to put anything real-world redeemable directly onto, say, Bitcoin or Ethereum, for this reason. They'd just get sued over and over again.The Stellar federated consensus story (HN debates about SCP below [1][2]) has Deutsche Bank as an actual player on the network. If you want DB redemptions then you would include them in your trust lines / quorum slices, and if Stellar fell apart and became partitioned, you would stay on DB's side. All said, it seems significantly faster and more stable for cryptocurrency-to-real-world mappings, both for the consumer and counterparty.Fun discussions:[1] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9341687" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9341687</a> -- of particular note, because it has David Mazières, Vitalik Buterin, and Greg Maxwell all weighing in.[2] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16125920" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16125920</a>

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eropple大约 7 年前

Last time Keybase came up I made sure to post about how great using it is and that I am super-duper enthused about Keybase. I entreated 'malgorithms to let me give him money for Keybase. And I have recommended Keybase to a ton of people and a bunch of my clients, using it in a bunch of workflows. Now those people and those clients are going to have cryptocoin bullshit stuffed into a work tool?Thanks, Chris. You're doing a great job of making me look like an asshole for believing in you guys.I don't want your "monetization plays" and my clients don't either. Giving you guys money for Keybase is infinitely preferable to having cryptocoin crap, Stellar or otherwise, being jammed into a tool I use for work. (Or anything else, really, that I ever have to touch.) And I feel like a sap for being an enthusiastic user of Keybase and recommending it to people when this sort of garbage is coming down the pike.I am really, really disappointed.

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fullsage大约 7 年前

This post is very oblique in a way that makes me suspicious.1. Is Keybase still a for-profit corporation?2. No actual technology is announced here. Is the purpose of this post to announce funding? If so, how much funding is it and what are the conditions under which it is provided?3. How is Stellar compatible with privacy? Keybase mentions MobileCoin in this blog post, but they are only using Stellar's consensus protocol, not the full Stellar protocol. I think that is because Stellar isn't private. What is Keybase doing to solve that if they are using the Stellar network?

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tgb大约 7 年前

> And traditional banking, with its branches and offices and free dog treats, uses even more electricity than Bitcoin.Isn't this disingenuous, to say the least? First, traditional banking uses more (for now) but also performs orders of magnitude more transactions. I'd be surprised if banking used more per transaction. Secondly, a bank does a lot of things that Bitcoin doesn't even try to do. I can walk into my local bank and get quarters for me laundry, Euros for my trip, a loan for my house, set up a retirement savings account and get advice on what to do with it, request help if I've been defrauded, and probably a lot more I haven't ever considered.

bkolobara大约 7 年前

I first heard about Stellar from Patrick's (patio11) Harry Potter post around 3 years ago: Harry Potter And The Cryptocurrency of Stars[1]. I have been following Stellar closely since then and am also running one of the biggest Stellar communities.It's one of the rear cryptocurrency and "blockchain" technologies that actually make sense to me. They have a simple structure: you are able to issue assets/tokens on the network and you are able to send and trade them for other tokens. I think that this simplicity allowed it to gain a lot of credibility with bigger companies (Stripe, IBM, now Keybase, ...), while other technologies like Bitcoin/Ethereum are getting just more and more complicated with 2nd layer networks and locking up tokens in them. They stayed true to the original ideas without introducing a bunch of buzzwords around them and trying to avoid hype in their announcements[2]:> Our agreement with Keybase entails many practical Stellar-centric deliverables. Rather than giving out a list now and spinning up yet another crypto hype-cycle, we’ll announce products jointly with them as they’re completed or near completion. We know the Keybase team very well and expect they will create critical Stellar ecosystem components over the coming years.[1] <a href="https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/08/05/harry-potter-and-the-cryptocurrency-of-stars/" rel="nofollow">https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/08/05/harry-potter-and-the-cr...</a> [2] <a href="https://www.stellar.org/blog/keybase-and-stellar-partnership/" rel="nofollow">https://www.stellar.org/blog/keybase-and-stellar-partnership...</a>

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ris大约 7 年前

I've stopped recommending keybase since they removed all references to being able to do operations directly with gpg (which is a real shame - it worked incredibly well and was the best example I've ever seen of web/CLI integration). The whole thing is becoming very opaque and startup-y and hey-we're-an-app have-you-downloaded-our-app why-not-app-our-app app-app-app-app... I'm really not a fan of these "minimal" growth-hack-y websites which seem so popular these days.

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donquichotte大约 7 年前

Read the announcement of the Stellar Foundation [1] for more detail. TLDR:"We see a future where, say, I can send my friend 100XLM, and, via Keybase, I can send it to her by knowing only her Twitter or Reddit handle."[1] <a href="https://www.stellar.org/blog/keybase-and-stellar-partnership/" rel="nofollow">https://www.stellar.org/blog/keybase-and-stellar-partnership...</a>

blocked_again大约 7 年前

You get a sense of positivity by just going through the stellar website and documentation (eerily similar to Stripe). It is beautifully designed and easy to understand. Kind of gives the feeling that they are in it for the long run unlike many other get rich quick Ponzi cryptocurrencies out there.

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oelmekki大约 7 年前

The thing I love the most about Stellar is how its founders want it to become "the SMTP of payment". It's kind of amazing we still haven't such kind of protocol widely available, and have to rely on private companies like Paypal, Stripe or any bank's IPN to send money on the internet, decades after its creation.

cmonfeat大约 7 年前

Very cool news. It's always exciting to see Keybase introduce new features, and the thought process behind them is usually pretty interesting to read.There's definitely a very real need for an anchored cryptocurrency that isn't a huge scam like Tether. It's cool that Stellar seems to solve this in a way that doesn't require me to hand over all of my trust to the currency creator.Also, that FAQ was awesome.

SteveJS大约 7 年前

How does this change the threat model for using keybase? It would seem to increase the target value of compromising the client. Is that immediate impression wrong?

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koko775大约 7 年前

Welp, time to uninstall. I like Keybase a lot, but there are zero ways in which I want my crypto to mix with my cryptocurrency.

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tristanho大约 7 年前

The FAQs are the bottom are amazing. Seems to cover just about every HN objection ever:> Does Keybase itself have Lumens?Thus far, SDF has supported us with cash — "dirty fiat" — which is what it takes to build software. But yes, we will hold Lumens later.> But Stellar is not Turing completeOk> Hodl on a second - aren't these anchored currencies the same thing as "tethers" (USDT)? I hear bad things about them.Sort of. How Stellar's view of real-world currencies is different:you choose which issuing parties to trust. No one seems to know if Tethers are redeemable. the exchange itself is decentralized; you can change your trust lines whenever you like, and you can trade away the rubbish. This is very different from being stuck in a centralized exchange with one questionable currency-pegged token.> What about Keybase profiles' support of Bitcoin and Zcash addresses?This won't change. We continue to be big fans of Zcash (for all the reasons mentioned here), Ethereum (for its flexibility), and Bitcoin (for its relative stability). We're also excited for Filecoin.We really are pro cryptocurrency across the board.> Where can I learn about Stellar?Here's a Talk at Google about it. After the video, you could read the Stellar Consensus Protocol paper. And here's their blog post announcing their support of us.> Won't this distract the Keybase team from its other work?All of our existing product (chat, teams, files, identity, etc.) should only get better, with more total resources put into them.> So are you launching a coin, like MobileCoin or Kik's?No. We will be helping Stellar in general, not launching our own coin.> Have you ever heard of the Dutch tulip craze?It sounds familiar. Have you ever heard of proof by example?> Any advice on storing cryptocurrency today?Advice we've gotten is the Ledger Nano S.> WHAT ABOUT MONERO??...

exabrial大约 7 年前

I <3 Keybase, though I wish I could generate my device keys with pgp rather than only having keybase do it for me. And of course, I'd love to store an ssh key with keybase...

flashmob大约 7 年前

I wasn't convinced about Stellar in that article. Some arguments given were strawman like, especially when attacking proof of work (PoW) or other things that are irrelevant because Stellar is something completely different. Besides, I found the overall tone to be somewhat condescending, especially due to the Monero snide at the end.There are plenty of other low-fee, non-PoW coins out there, that the article should have spent more time comparing to instead; So we know that stellar doesn't use PoW - what I want to know is why the Stellar consensus algorithm is better when compared to the other similar alternatives out there, and what makes it faster and more secure. They also leave an elephant in the room - how is Stellar more resistant to censorship? What I'd really be interested in reading is why they chose it based on technical merits, rather than talking down other projects.

zapita大约 7 年前

Isn't Keybase a for-profit corporation? What does it mean for a non-profit to support a for-profit? An emtry in the FAQ explaining this would be appreciated.

CryptoPunk大约 7 年前

>>We think Stellar can fulfill Bitcoin's original goal of fast, cheap, worldwide payments.Stellar will not remain fast, cheap and global. It has counterparty risk in the form of the trusted third parties that form its consensus nodes. These TTPs will censor transactions and introduce costly registration requirements for the same reason traditional fintech companies do: to comply with the demands of regulatory agencies.The only networks capable of providing fast, cheap, worldwide payments are decentralized protocols without trusted third party intermediaries, like Bitcoin (Bitcoin Cash) and Ethereum.

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ndreckshage大约 7 年前

I'd be really interested in adding Twitter (etc) support to Lumenette with help of Keybase, if possible. Hoping there will be an API for other wallets to interact with the features Keybase is working on.I've been using Keybase git and file storage for some time now. Really excited about this partnership!Lumenette wallet, for reference: <a href="https://galactictalk.org/d/1159-lumenette-android-ios-stellar-lumens-wallet" rel="nofollow">https://galactictalk.org/d/1159-lumenette-android-ios-stella...</a>

diakritikal大约 7 年前

Given that stellar/lumen is a fork of ripple/xrp, and ripple/xrp seem to have a massive head start with what 100+? bank and payment providers already on board - are stellar/lumen not just competing head to head with Ripple with essentially the same technology but with a handicap of being behind in terms of development and not having an in-use production network and settlement solution?

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chasemiller大约 7 年前

As a long time Keybase user and Stellar holder, I couldn't be more excited for this news! Congratulations to all!

redka大约 7 年前

I feel like there's a very real synergy possible here. Keybase has a solution covering security, identity, chat and multi-device usage that could be very interesting when combined with a crypto-currency like Stellar Lumen. I wonder what they have in mind in terms of features. Any guesses?

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xerxe-sans-s大约 7 年前

Attaching a transaction history and wallet to an identity perfectly positions keybase as a player in the credit scoring industry.I’m excited to see this, and hopeful that it takes off. However, I’ve enjoyed utilizing keybase as an identity tool. I’ve had a decent experience with the system as a workplace productivity tool (chat, git). I’m worried that the team will lose focus by branching into a third, and potentially fourth area of focus.

SZJX大约 7 年前

Sorry if this question is a bit stupid but could somebody enlighten me on why Keybase seem to regard Monero quite poorly? From what I've heard it seems that its anonimity is more trusted than that of Zcash at least, and both it and Zcash are proof-of-work coins anyways. Is it simply because they already had Zcash, so they'd rather not put something similar in there?

bigcoin大约 7 年前

That's a very good partnership! Since Keybase maps social media identities to encryption keys in a publicly auditable manner, as well as Stellar implements Lumens as a digital asset designed to work as a medium of exchange that uses cryptography to secure its transactions, to control the creation of additional units, and to verify the transfer of assets

curo大约 7 年前

In response to the environmental backlash argument, isn't the lightning network supposed to substantially mitigate those concerns?

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vongesell大约 7 年前

Beware of anything Jed McCaleb touches. The author of eDonkey, the horrid PHP code that was MTGox, ripple and now stellar.

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jasonmp85大约 7 年前

> But Stellar is not Turing complete… OkThis made me smile.

ldiracdelta大约 7 年前

Is Stellar private by default, or do you have to add tumblers to gain some semblance of privacy?

Cambridgeport90大约 7 年前

this is going to be awesome. I need to look at that now. So many coins to be aware of and to study to navigate a seemingly confusing new world, though.

desireco42大约 7 年前

I was just thinking this morning how keybase would be useful as a tie-in for crypto identity on blockchain, when this is desirable. This is fantastic news.Just confirms that Stellar is great platform.

weinzierl大约 7 年前

>Have you ever heard of the Dutch tulip craze?>It sounds familiar. Have you ever heard of proof by example?Well played!

drgenus大约 7 年前

awesome!

kang大约 7 年前

Stellar doesn't work.Disturbed by energy consumption, their solution is to divide(shard) the blockchain graph. Does that result in a consensus though? Not in their own prior version.Will the topology they are claiming emerge? There is no proof.

johnny_1010大约 7 年前

Why someone use this kind of chat? Same Slack, Hipchat it's look to me like expansive irc. And this "blog post" is more Stellar commercial.

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