All I need is a programmer

This same story seems to get rehashed weekly here. Without insight into what the business is, you can't really judge how important a programmer is. For some, it's paramount. For others, it's not as important.<p>Interestingly enough, a lot of people get stuck in some sort of weird trap: Their idea is worth so much to them that they won't give up equity yet their idea is worth so little that they won't invest in it.

Again, it's worth remembering that even if everyone in the world understood exactly how valuable, difficult, and expensive programming can be, these conversations would still happen all the time. It's just how negotiation works: Programmer offers to work for X, customer pretends to be poor and offers Y where Y &#60;&#60; X. And so on.<p>Admittedly, when you offer to work for X and your "friend" responds by coming right out and <i>saying</i> that they expected the work <i>for free</i>, so forget it... they're not being very polite or very smart. A better response would be "Gosh, I hadn't realized it was more than an hour or two of work, and my budget is only $75. Thanks for setting me straight -- I'll have to rethink this. Can you recommend any $10-an-hour grade school students?" And then you put on your Helpless Newb Face and hope that your programmer friend takes pity on you and offers to work at half wages, or offers you some free advice on how to set up a cheap Wordpress site, or something.<p>As sure as the sun shines, people -- especially your "friends" -- are never going to offer what you're actually worth. (For one thing, they have little way of knowing. Given that most software engineers can barely estimate how long their projects will take or how much the result is worth, how can you expect inexperienced folks to do it?) You just have to do what this guy did: Ask for what you think you're worth, and be gracious but firm if they say something stupid or insulting in return.

I work for a big company where they believe in the cog-in-a-machine idea so much they actually implemented a process they coined 'the factory process' with the emphasis on being able to swap in team of developers at the drop of a hat.<p>Noone had read the mythical man month, or Spolsky's 'Hitting the highlights' (or named something similar to that).<p>I can testify first hand that treating software engineer like cogs is a road to slippage, bugs and all the good engineers leaving!

The lack of cash for the gig isn't really the problem here. I think the problem is that the person asking for work is poor at business.<p>If he is expecting this guy to work for free, he should make him feel super important, ask for advice and not really ask him to do the work.<p>Assuming that someone else has nothing else going on and will spend their evenings/weekends on your project for free, just points out that he doesn't have a clue about how people work.<p>My advice to anyone looking to hire a programmer for free, try a subtle form of flattery and see if you can get a good deal. Alternatively, learn programming.

"The reason for this, I think, is that Lisp allows you to be so productive that a single person can get things done without having to work together with anyone else, and so Lisp programmers never develop the social skills needed to work effectively as a member of a team."<p>That's IT! I just decided to quit Lisp and program in C from now on. And all this time I wondered why I have no social skills... But now everything will be fine!!!

Programming is not the only profession where this takes place

This is typical of the sort of person who believes that the value of something is entirely the idea, rather than in the implementation of the idea. Unfortunately, that mindset never actually accomplishes anything.<p>Ideas aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Unless it's nice paper.

I have a programmer who due to visa issues is stuck in one state. We have worked together on a startup remotely 4 over a yr now. His full time gig sent him over to work only in one state. Now we are backed we want him to join us where our backers and I am, but immigration is backed up where it will take a year 2 approve his move. We are now looking for LAMP developers (2 yr experience) in and around the Philly area.<p>I wouldnt say all we need is a programmer, rather another team member who can join us locally, while he continues working remotely! Interested drop me mail at paul9290 &#60;at&#62; yahoo.com. It's a paid position with equity!

Has anyone seen a post saying "All I need is a business guy?"

See another similar thread here: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=155105" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=155105</a>

In my opinion the software is the business. Without that, its just an idea on paper. And the marketable value of an idea is zero.

Got the same thing on Sunday. Usually I find the easiest thing to say, in cases where I'm pretty certain there's not going to be common ground, to recommend a third party who they're not friends with and won't assume that it'll be a favor.

you can either spend that energy and reply to the person try explaining why you worth X you are requesting (assumuning they are not naive and willing to understand) or write a blog post a of type "all I need is a XYZ"

If they know exactly what they want, the programmer is exchangeable. Maybe one is faster than the other, maybe the code will be ugly. It doesn't really matter.

If you believe that code is poetry, then programmers are artists.

In a similar situation actually! I like your approach!