Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

I clean with a steamer. It doesn&#x27;t project particles, and it&#x27;s extremely good at disinfecting. I also use a vacuum cleaner with exceptionally low dust re-emission. And an air purifier.<p>The only &quot;chemicals&quot; I use are an extremely mild lactic acid based cleaner and a pre&#x2F;probiotic on toilets and kitchen tops. And I don&#x27;t use any fragrances anywhere.<p>My allergy problems have disappeared. I really recommend this approach. Cheap chemicals are a disaster for ones health.<p>Microfibres are cool, but I&#x27;ve seen inconclusive evidence they might shed asbesto-like particles. So I&#x27;m waiting for better testing.

Our bodies are 4-billion-year-old spaghetti code that gets added to every time it runs. They have been evolving all this time for exposure to a very particular range of chemicals. Every time you introduce a new chemical into the mix that has only been in our environment for less than 100 years, you are testing your body&#x27;s ability to deal with them for the first time.

As a former chemist, call me suspicious of these findings.<p>Can cleaners be an irritant to the lungs? Of course. Inhaling a lot of things can be an irritant.<p>Most cleaners that consumers use are surfactants sometimes mixed with alkylbenzonium disinfectants (in very low concentration). Even cleaners that are ammonia based aren&#x27;t harmful.<p>Now on the professional side, I could believe there is risk. Some of those chemicals are very harsh.

In a past life as a lab tech for sterile environments, we used Spor-klenz, mostly a diluted combination of glacial acetic acid (pure distilled vinegar) and sodium hypochlorite (concentrated bleach), to kill statistically approaching anything on a surface you need sterilized. Upon application, they form chlorine gas, notorious as a chemical warfare agent in WWI. It must be used in a ventilated area, and with a respirator for any kind of prolonged exposure. Use of this combination of chemicals in an unventilated area without protective gear is sternly cautioned, as it will quickly cause lasting injury to your lungs.<p>It&#x27;s not uncommon for commercial cleaning products to contain these ingredients, as well as other potentially hazardous combinations of chemicals, and there isn&#x27;t enough awareness of the very serious consequences to their misuse.

I vividly remember my first summer job, working at a grocery store deli when I was in high school. My job was basically to spray down surfaces with some kind of industrial version of Windex. Within a week I had developed a scratchy cough, and after two weeks I had completely lost my voice! I was in the privileged position of being able to quit the job and go on to college, but if I&#x27;d kept working with those chemicals for years I don&#x27;t doubt there&#x27;d have been lasting damage.<p>Does anyone know specifically what cleaning chemicals the study is talking about though? Always annoyed by the absence of what seems like basic information in reports like this.

For anyone else looking for mentions of specific products, the original paper doesn&#x27;t mention any. It just categorized people in to non-cleaners, cleaners at home, and professional cleaners.<p>Both the professional cleaners and at home cleaners were impacted.

On a related note, dentists dying of mysterious lung disease[1] likely from improper respiratory protection while exposed to breathing hazards.<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetalkingdemocrat.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;03&#x2F;us-dentists-are-dying-of-mysterious-lung-disease&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetalkingdemocrat.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;03&#x2F;us-dentists-are-d...</a>

How much of this is to do with the fact that these cleaners are being put into the air as vapor through a diffuser (the spray-bottle&#x27;s nozzle); and how much has to do with the fact that these chemicals are volatiles that will evaporate off of the surfaces they&#x27;re on and then travel into the lungs as a gas?<p>That is, if I wore a dust mask while I cleaned—or if I sprayed the cleaner directly into a cloth pressed against the bottle, then rubbed the cloth against the surface—would that help? It&#x27;d reduce cleanser vaporization, I&#x27;d think, but not do much to help with avoiding evaporated cleanser gas.

I’m willing to bet there are some “dreaded third variables” that have crept into the study. Also being able to find the effect on women but not men leads me to believe there might be some P-hacking going on.

The original headline says &quot;cleaning products&quot;, which is what the study covers, but the article lede says &quot;cleaning sprays&quot;, which is what the headline here has been edited to suggest.<p>Much discussion on Reddit a couple of weeks ago when this study was originally published: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;search?q=cleaning+products+lung" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;search?q=cleaning+products+lung</a>

&gt;<i>&quot;The scientists found that the amount of air breathed out by their participants decreased more in women who regularly cleaned.<p>The study did not find any harmful effects comparable to those seen in women in the men they studied.</i>&quot;<p>Then:<p>&gt;&quot;<i>While the results appear dramatic, the researchers speculated chemicals in cleaning products irritate the fragile mucous membranes lining the lungs, which over time leads to lasting damage and “remodelling” of the airways.</i>&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thoracic.org&#x2F;about&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;press-releases&#x2F;resources&#x2F;women-cleaners-lung-function.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thoracic.org&#x2F;about&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;press-releases&#x2F;resour...</a>

I assume &quot;comparable&quot; means &quot;similar&quot; in this sense.<p>But there&#x27;s nothing about lung cancer, which makes the impact on lung health not remotely similar to a pack a day cigarette habit.

This supports previous research that indicates there&#x27;s a connection between asthma and cleaning products, particularly in occupational cleaners.<p>I don&#x27;t see any reference to study on particular cleaning solutions, exposure times, or any particularly reliable control. I&#x27;ll continue working under the assumption that long term exposure to any chemical can be associated with an increased health risk - until a more detailed study is done there&#x27;s really no actionable conclusion here.

I use vinegar for light cleaning and dusting, and rubbing alcohol for almost all other household cleaning now. Isopropyl alcohol is basically magic — it sterilizes and completely evaporates with no lingering residue or fragrances. And a steam mop for the floor.

This is why I never clean.

Something is odd here. From the study itself, the observed declines in lung function were only observed in females, not males. This was among respondents that identified as occupational cleaners too, so you can&#x27;t just attribute that difference to &quot;gender roles&quot;. Also, for women, the rate of decline was the same for occupational cleaners (it was their job) vs home cleaners (they cleaned their own home).<p>Nothing good comes from breathing cleaning spray, and this research references other pieces to suppprt that claim, but it seems possible that this research is honing in on some other common factor besides cleaning exposure, else degree of exposure is negligible in the outcomes and male biochemistry renders men immune to this effect.

I switched to vinegar-based cleaning solution. High dose inhalation of acetic acid seems to induce an acute reaction in mice without long-term effect, so I&#x27;m hoping that chronic low dose inhalation won&#x27;t have an effect in humans either.

Previous discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16404551" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16404551</a>

The amount used and technique for spraying probably matter. A careful cleaner may use only a very small amount as needed while some seem to think it is necessary to slather everything with concentrated soaps that leave a strong smell. We are still just coming to terms with aerosols as high powered forced air hand dryers have shown, and those were intended to minimize spread of contaminants.

Soapcalc and make your own soap: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;soapcalc.net&#x2F;calc&#x2F;soapcalcwp.asp" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;soapcalc.net&#x2F;calc&#x2F;soapcalcwp.asp</a><p>This is what I do. I have a nice batch of coconut&#x2F;castor&#x2F;olive&#x2F;cocoa soap curing under the sink. It&#x27;s literally just water, vegetable oils, and some sodium hydroxide.

Just about all bathroom and window cleaners cause shortness of breath for me. Maybe it&#x27;s because I smoked tobacco for so many years. So I use diluted vinegar on windows, and baking soda plus dish detergent on surfaces. And diluted citric acid for lime, because it&#x27;s faster than acetic acid.

I don&#x27;t like the idea of paying someone else to clean my filth, but I don&#x27;t clean often enough myself.<p>So I get really lazy, and soak a sponge in phosphoric acid[1] then rub it gently on the glass around the shower. Leave for 2 minutes, and the limescale in gone! It&#x27;s much easier than any &quot;real&quot; cleaning product, and the phosphoric acid is the equivalent of about $1.50 for a litre.<p>But I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s bad for me. I wear gloves.<p>[1] &quot;pH 1.0&quot; and &quot;contains phosphoric acid&quot; is all the label says.

Was anyone able to spot which cleaning sprays were problematic?

I find it very hard to remove soap scum from bathtub if I don&#x27;t use cleaning sprays. Can someone please suggest a better way.

I wonder how long it will take before the tort lawyers can sniff this.

This is why I switched from cleaning spray to chewing tobacco.

But it doesn&#x27;t say which cleaners were tested. For example perhaps Simple Green is not at the same level as Formula 409.

Makes sense in the case of bleach, which when combined with the ammonia containing body ingredients shed off in the shower, reacts to produce chloramine, which hydrolyzes to produce hypochlorous acid, which is a strong oxidizing agent, and I assume said hydrolysis takes place in the lungs, meaning ample exposure to free radicals, which I assume can lead to cancer if inhaled often enough.

I use a 3m facemask with 2 p100 bio air filters when cleaning specifically to avoid these chemicals.

Unfortunate that all sprays are combined. One reason for the rather large sex effect might be the choice of different products by men and women. If I had to guess, bleach sprays are going to be the most damaging, but that&#x27;s a guess.

This headline is just a lie. They&#x27;re as bad for &quot;lung health&quot; <i>if cigarettes didn&#x27;t cause lung cancer!</i><p>(Lung health is measured by lung capacity by them)

Presumably better to twist nozzle to <i>jet</i> spray rather than <i>mist</i> spray?

Believing a report in a general news publication that attempts to summarize the conclusion of a study that hasn&#x27;t been replicated anywhere can lead to an increase in stupidity. Caveat emptor. Also, all headlines are clickbait. Get over it.