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The problem with the Code of Conduct

95 点作者 kragniz大约 7 年前

17 条评论

anon6357814大约 7 年前
I feel excluded by CoCs. Not because they prohibit behavior which I otherwise relish to engage in on a daily basis, more because of fear of coming under some behavioral rule enforcing institution within a community because some behavior could be interpreted as violating the rules when seen under a bad light.<p>This is mostly a gut reaction, a feeling that CoCs serve more to tighten the overton window and fear that I might find myself on the wrong side of sharp demarcation which should be more of a soft gradient. It&#x27;s like a wanted poster, being declared a thought criminal.<p>Of course many things in a CoC are individually sensible rules, but as a larger set they feel like a demand for a flawless human who is always genuinely nice, polite and only makes perfectly inoffensive jokes and never raises their voice while arguing things etc. I&#x27;m quite aware that I am not that perfect human, I have issues with empathy and following what was considered group consensus (it has cost me friends and a job before). Those CoCs just feel a bit like a &quot;only people with A-grade social skills welcome here&quot; sign to me.
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art187大约 7 年前
Disclaimer, I help run an organization that requires CoC&#x27;s on all events.<p>I like this article but it doesn&#x27;t go into the positives of a CoC. There are many problems but if you don&#x27;t weigh them against the positive characteristics, you don&#x27;t see the full picture.<p>My organization NumFOCUS, asks all conferences and projects working with us to adopt some CoC. Why do we do this? First it has been shown in our community to help encourage minority groups to participate. Second it outlines a real procedure if something does go wrong. Finally, it sets the expectation of professionalism early.<p>Our numbers on diversity have skyrocketed as we enforces CoCs. It&#x27;s not just a bandaid, it&#x27;s an invitation to people of all types that we, the organizers, will protect your right to be at our event. I don&#x27;t think event organizers are in any position to think they can solve all the problems in tech but at least they can create an inviting space.<p>Without a CoC, the procedure on how to handle a harasser is very grey. What legal grounds does a person have to tell someone to leave an event? If it is any grounds then why for some and not others? Who makes these decisions? I&#x27;ve seen conferences not deal with up front and have to resort to the local law enforcement to intervene.<p>Which brings me to my last point, set expectations up front. It&#x27;s like the big silver punch bowl at the new years party. We expect you to be an adult and treat everyone else like an adult. A CoC clearly lays out that your event is intended to be professional.<p>I don&#x27;t think it is the end of all discussions, in fact only the beginning. Our staff put together more things to consider, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;numfocus&#x2F;DISCOVER-Cookbook" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;numfocus&#x2F;DISCOVER-Cookbook</a>, but a CoC is the simplist.
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DoreenMichele大约 7 年前
<i>Don&#x27;t Hit On The Students!<p>But also (and this is my main issue with such points) CoC are a reaction to things that went bad, and an attempt to fix these issues.</i><p>I briefly talked for a time with a guy who knew I had life threatening respiratory problems and he tried to talk me into meeting him in person, while swearing my health and welfare were his highest priority and intentionally leaving out the fact that he was a smoker and a toker. When it finally came out in conversation, I had a cow and he pulled this nonsense about &quot;If it is that important, you should have asked.&quot;<p>Um, no.<p>I was so upset by the whole thing, I briefly considered putting something in my profile on the forum where we met specifying &quot;No smokers, no tokers.&quot; Then decided this is about as useful as putting up a dating profile that says &quot;No rapists, no pedophiles.&quot;<p>He knew it was not acceptable. This is why he hid the information. Any BS justification for his behavior after the fact is just part of the headfuckery.<p>And, unfortunately, a lot of CoCs seem to be along those lines of explicitly forbidding behaviors that we already understand are bad, as if that will somehow stop people who already know what they are doing is not socially acceptable.<p>The areas where people are oblivious due to entrenched prejudice of some sort will not be fixed by spelling it out in some detailed list.<p>We are catering to the lowest common denominator by spelling out what is and is not acceptable. This isn&#x27;t a means to foster a civil environment.
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hprotagonist大约 7 年前
My problem, for good or ill, with codes of conduct, is that they are written in the language of HR--which is to say, the defensive language of ass-covering--and thus I cannot trust them.<p>Sounds like this author feels similarly.
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kardashev大约 7 年前
One thing that&#x27;s worrying about CoCs is that many of them seem political in nature and are used as excuses to abuse other members of the community who don&#x27;t conform to certain opinions. Bryan Lunduke has chronicled a few examples of this occurring and causing destruction of otherwise healthy communities.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=s087Ca9JnYw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=s087Ca9JnYw</a>
phyzome大约 7 年前
This was a better post than I was expecting. It&#x27;s written from the heart, and from a non-dismissive standpoint. Worth reading the whole thing.<p>I really liked the example about accessibility. It&#x27;s a great point—organizations should be honest with themselves about what they can actually offer.<p>I disagreed with some other parts, in particular the part about how a lot of orgs aren&#x27;t actually prepared to handle harassment complaints professionally. While that&#x27;s definitely something to work on, I think that&#x27;s something that&#x27;s going to be true for many orgs regardless of whether they have a CoC. <i>Not</i> welcoming people to come forward with complaints is... probably worse, right? Or am I missing something?
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tylermenezes大约 7 年前
It seems like the point of the article is not sufficient to make a community feel welcoming and safe. Which is a great point: lots of shitty communities have a Code of Conduct that&#x27;s ignored.<p>That doesn&#x27;t mean a Code of Conduct is not a necessary step.<p>Teaching people to be good members of your community, and being proactive in removing bad members, isn&#x27;t possible until you define what that means.
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kasbah大约 7 年前
I am faced with feeling pressured to add a CoC for one of my own projects in order to apply for funding. I am unsure what to put up. It seems like a massive task to me.<p>I quite like the CoC of the EMF camp as it seems to the point, un-ambigious and written in language I understand. I may try and adapt it for online interaction. What do others think?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.emfcamp.org&#x2F;code-of-conduct" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.emfcamp.org&#x2F;code-of-conduct</a>
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legostormtroopr大约 7 年前
I find it telling that she felt it necessary to include the disclaimer &quot;I am a queer woman&quot;. When discussing issues around Codes of Conduct I see all too often people leaning on personal attributes that give them social permission to critique them.
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Veedrac大约 7 年前
&gt; I believe that this person honestly cares about feminism and CoC, but that they are unable to be aware of how their own actions are going to far and come over as threatening. They do respect every aspect of a CoC, but refuse to be qualified with those &quot;vague terms&quot; as it is possible to interpret them in so many ways and are, of course, impossible to prove.<p>&gt; How is a CoC helping me here, when CoC offer so many gray zones to play with, when the line between insecurity and harassment is so thin that it is almost impossible to distinguish one from another?<p>This is exactly the sort of thing a CoC <i>should</i> help with. Without explicit policy, you have no explicitly stated means of defense. With a CoC, you <i>should</i> be able to simply tell the people in charge of upholding it that this person&#x27;s actions come across as threatening and harrassing.<p>I am not saying this will work everywhere. A CoC also only enables you to know what defenses you have, it does not create them. But I feel at least the spirit is in the right place, and I know of at least one community where IMO it works very well.
AstralStorm大约 7 年前
Well, we have rules but we don&#x27;t have a silly prescriptive law in our hackerspace. The rules are all made by experience not guesswork and intentions.<p>Sample rules that were retired:<p>* any member may ask anyone else to desist and go away or shut up and you have to comply (hasn&#x27;t been invoked yet to any real extent - people tend to comply)<p>* any member may ask a non-member to leave (likewise) - criminal stuff is covered already<p>* we have a list of persona non grata - preferably do not let them in or keep them under constant supervision - list gets outdated, these people tend to not show up, new members have no idea<p>* do not take excessive phone calls in open space - just asking is good enough<p>Rules that we kept:<p>* is not a hotel or sleeping space - do not abuse the coach - crashing is fine, doing that many times in a row is not<p>* is not a pub - take excessive drinking elsewhere, likewise drug use or dealing<p>* members can be banned by a vote in a specific matter - it has happened<p>* keep the place clean (esp. put things back in their designated places, take out the trash and keep fridge clean of old mold)<p>* how meetings and rule changes are made (consensus on an actual face to face meeting announced at least 48h ahead; must be at least one person from steering committee which is also chosen by consensus on a big meet by majority)<p>Note there is nothing about harassment since there is no need to. The general rules are fine. There is also clear definition of who is responsible for upholding the rules.<p>If we had a CoC like one of those &quot;inclusive&quot; ones we&#x27;d have to ban half to two thirds of the members. They are fond of religious and sometimes lewd jokes. Or are sometimes abrasive or crude.<p>Abuse (incl. verbal, stalking) is not tolerated regardless since it is a <i>bad plan</i> and if it recurs it will get you banned - it has in the past. We do not write it in rules as it is dealt with on case by case basis. Mostly as it requires a vote and vote requires a discussion and presenting the points clearly. And anything illegal and disruptive will get the police called on you. Obviously.
smileysteve大约 7 年前
COCs are virtue signaling at best (as mentioned in checklist items) and a catch ~~all~~ most for immature behavior at worst.<p>Really, it would help if we could trust adults to be adults, or at least 16 year olds, but this speaks to bigger industry and societal problems. Recently, I heard conference attendees bragging of how they messed up a presentation by trying to connect to the bluetooth device being demonstrated. And I&#x27;ve been lucky to have never worked at a place where changing the background to pornography or setting an inappropriate facebook status was a thing.<p>The truth is that the tech industry (among others) still has people who are less mature than the people at lan parties I went to when I was 14-16.
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sn大约 7 年前
This seems like more of an argument against bad CoCs and against CoCs for all organizations, rather than a CoC always being bad for every organization.<p>There&#x27;s also a difference between specifying a CoC and enforcing a CoC. Maybe there needs to be a different name for expectations that aren&#x27;t going to be enforced, either because they&#x27;re too imprecise or the people running things are incapable of doing so.
edanm大约 7 年前
I don&#x27;t know. I helped organize a conference where we were required to use a code of conduct by the parent organization (to be fair, we&#x27;d probably have put a code of conduct up either way).<p>From my point of view, as someone who is likely not going to be subject to bad behavior, I felt like a lot of it was standard HR boilerplate feel-good stuff. Not that there&#x27;s anything wrong with that - it&#x27;s good to signal quite clearly the behavior you think is right and wrong.<p>But I think that in some cases it helped more than that. It really <i>does</i> give you specific benefits:<p>1. It gives you something to aspire to. Yes, our CoC included accessibility issues. No, we weren&#x27;t amazing at dealing with them, since it was our first time and it&#x27;s not an easy topic to take care of. But the CoC certainly helps make it a priority, if only because people may (rightly!) call you out on failings. Most people will be understanding with you even if you don&#x27;t get everything right, as long as you&#x27;re trying.<p>2. I think specifying specific contacts (male and female) in case of certain abuse situations is a good thing. Of <i>course</i> whoever is the contact is not necessarily trained in dealing with trauma - but that&#x27;s usually not the situation we&#x27;re talking about. If someone is raped or physically asaulted, it&#x27;s a matter for the police. We&#x27;re talking about much lighter but still problematic cases, where hopefully the victim wants something done, but doesn&#x27;t need a trauma specialist or anything.<p>The idea of the CoC isn&#x27;t to be <i>instead of</i> law enforcement, it&#x27;s to be another layer on top of that providing specific rules about what is and isn&#x27;t considered professional behavior in this kind of conference. No more, no less.
rectang大约 7 年前
The world is separating into bastions: with CoC and without CoC.<p>I&#x27;m much happier in one of those than the other.
ksec大约 7 年前
A Silly question, is CoC a thing in Commonwealth &#x2F; EU countries? Or is it mostly an US thing?
matte_black大约 7 年前
It’s important to remember a conference is not a space, it’s the <i>people</i> in that space.<p>In a conference there are no safe spaces, only safe people. What we need are social structures to help keep safe people around other safe people, if that’s where they want to be.<p>We need an effective way of calibrating a person’s safety profile. An individual for instance may be perfectly safe for a minority, but unsafe for all but the most hardened women.