TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Review of Steven Pinker’s Enlightenment Now

186 点作者 onuralp大约 7 年前

17 条评论

maldusiecle大约 7 年前
The critiques of Pinker that I&#x27;ve found most convincing have focused on his presentation of the Enlightenment&#x27;s intellectual side. The review by John Gray that Aaronson dismisses has some fairly convincing points, and it&#x27;s disappointing seeing him travesty Gray&#x27;s case.<p>It should be pretty obvious to someone with reasonably good reading comprehension that Gray is not saying, as Aaronson suggests he is, that Pinker supports eugenics. Gray&#x27;s point is that the thinkers who Aaronson presents as defining &quot;Enlightenment values&quot; in fact had much more ambivalent positions. The argument is that one cannot define &quot;Enlightenment values&quot; simplistically--because the Enlightenment thinkers were in disagreement about basic principles.<p>I don&#x27;t agree with all of Gray&#x27;s critique--I think Pinker&#x27;s case that things have improved over the last several centuries is reasonable--but I think this part of his argument is difficult to answer. It&#x27;s very easy to define praiseworthy &quot;values&quot; if you keep them divorced from real-world arguments, and that seems to be Pinker&#x27;s approach. Any thinker who can present Enlightenment values as simple and univocal is going to do a poor job understanding things as they are today. Deny the disagreements of the past, and you&#x27;re sure to miss the substance of today&#x27;s disagreements. Aaronson is happy to take the &quot;classic liberal&quot; label. I wonder if he&#x27;s familiar with the work of others who identify as classic liberals right now; my guess, given what I&#x27;ve seen of his writing, is that he&#x27;d disagree with many of them pretty strenuously.
评论 #16659166 未加载
评论 #16662385 未加载
评论 #16659459 未加载
评论 #16661265 未加载
评论 #16672136 未加载
larsiusprime大约 7 年前
The nature of the tension between the blessings of the Enlightenment and the general fear of the future Scott expresses here might be rooted in the fact that what modern science and technology has done is increase humanity&#x27;s raw power.<p>Take for example the case of Fritz Haber [1] -- who with one hand greatly innovated in the use of poison gas for widespread use in war (later used by the Nazis, and against his own people at that), condemning millions to death, and with the other hand greatly innovated chemical fertilizers, arguably saving millions from famine.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Fritz_Haber" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Fritz_Haber</a><p>We&#x27;re more powerful as a species than ever before. That means we can do wonderful things previously unimaginable, but it also means our destructive powers have been equally magnified. Problems are solvable, but the big red shiny buttons are redder and bigger and shinier than ever, too. And I&#x27;m not just talking about the threat of nuclear war.
评论 #16658567 未加载
评论 #16659153 未加载
评论 #16659505 未加载
评论 #16662454 未加载
d_burfoot大约 7 年前
A lot of people, including Pinker, seem to make too much of the connection between Good Ideas about philosophy and politics, and the resulting benefits to humanity. On the one hand, sure, good ideas lead to benefits. But good ideas aren&#x27;t scarce and probably never have been. Anyone who spends some time surfing the internet will find dozens of good ideas that would probably lead to dramatic improvements in human welfare.<p>The limiting factor is the political willingness to try out new ideas. What&#x27;s special about the Enlightenment era is not that the ideas were good, but that the political systems were willing and able to implement the ideas. Our current political system can&#x27;t or won&#x27;t contemplate even small changes to the Way It&#x27;s Done. And this intolerance to new ideas is not just an unfortunate misrepresentation of the Will of the People: most people really don&#x27;t like new ideas about politics and will often scream at you for suggesting them.
评论 #16661427 未加载
评论 #16660697 未加载
amsilprotag大约 7 年前
<i>(Pinker lists the following medical researchers and public health crusaders as having saved more than 100 million lives each: Karl Landsteiner, Abel Wolman, Linn Enslow, William Foege, Maurice Hilleman, John Enders. How many of them had you heard of? I’d heard of none.)</i><p>The first 94 pages are available on Google Books. Here is a link to the page with a table of these researchers&#x27; accomplishments and approximate lives saved.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;books.google.com&#x2F;books?id=J6grDwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA64&amp;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;books.google.com&#x2F;books?id=J6grDwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA64&amp;</a>
FabHK大约 7 年前
I&#x27;m curious why nobody seems to have compared Pinker&#x27;s book to Julian Simon&#x27;s 1996 tome <i>The State of Humanity</i>. It&#x27;s also full of statistics and graphs showing the vast improvements in human life over time leading up to now.<p>Simon&#x27;s book has been co-opted by the libertarian right (Cato Institute etc.) to show that all is peachy and no government intervention is needed - that&#x27;s lamentable.<p>However, the underlying facts marshalled and documented in the books of Simon and Pinker - that life is measurably getting better on so many fronts - ought to be better known.<p>EDIT to add: Here&#x27;s a short article by Simon summarising the message of the book: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cato.org&#x2F;publications&#x2F;commentary&#x2F;state-humanity-good-getting-better" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cato.org&#x2F;publications&#x2F;commentary&#x2F;state-humanity-...</a>
评论 #16662887 未加载
评论 #16661549 未加载
RoutinePlayer大约 7 年前
To paraphrase Gate, this is my new favorite review of this book :-). The other is <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;quillette.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;03&#x2F;11&#x2F;steven-pinkers-counter-counter-enlightenment&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;quillette.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;03&#x2F;11&#x2F;steven-pinkers-counter-count...</a><p>It&#x27;s simple. Responses to Pinker&#x27;s writings can be divided into two groups: The rational pessimists and the rational optimists.
评论 #16658808 未加载
评论 #16658671 未加载
评论 #16660147 未加载
评论 #16658614 未加载
yedava大约 7 年前
It should be noted that enlightenment era ideals failed to include many classes of the members of homosapiens. Enough credit is not given to those classes who actually fixed the ideals and made them what they are today - universally applicable rights and principles. Slaves had to prove they are humans by spilling their own blood and lives. Women had to prove that they are capable of participating in a democracy and they deserve same rights as men. Colonial subjects had to prove they deserve autonomy, again by suffering violence. Because these members of these groups have remained mostly unknown, haven&#x27;t we taken the lazy path of showering praise on some specific eras, and some specific set of intellectuals whose writings have been recorded? So how justified is Pinker on laying the foundations of progress on the enlightenment era norms?
评论 #16662257 未加载
评论 #16660186 未加载
taeric大约 7 年前
<p><pre><code> So my advice is this: buy Pinker’s book and read it. Then work for a future where the book’s optimism is justified. </code></pre> I personally hope most get to the conclusion of this review and take it&#x27;s advice.
whatyoucantsay大约 7 年前
&gt; <i>I’ve noticed that everything Pinker writes bears the scars of the hostile mistranslation tactic. Scarcely does he say anything before he turns around and says, “and here’s what I’m not saying”—and then proceeds to ward off five different misreadings so wild they wouldn’t have occurred to me, but then if you read Leon Wieseltier or John Gray or his other critics, there the misreadings are, trotted out triumphantly; it doesn’t even matter how much time Pinker spent trying to prevent them.</i><p>&gt; <i>I’m depressed, more generally, that for centuries, the Enlightenment has been met by its beneficiaries with such colossal incomprehension and ingratitude. Save 300 million people from smallpox, and you can expect a return a lecture about your naïve and arrogant scientistic reductionism.</i>
评论 #16657064 未加载
评论 #16661374 未加载
评论 #16660478 未加载
geodel大约 7 年前
I find the linked review by John Gray more reasonable and mostly because unlike Pinker he does not seems too eager to please affluent with all great things happening around.
lowbloodsugar大约 7 年前
Reviewers conclusion: &quot;So my advice is this: buy Pinker’s book and read it. Then work for a future where the book’s optimism is justified.&quot;<p>Please.
vanderZwan大约 7 年前
&gt; <i>As I read Pinker, I sometimes imagined a book published in 1923 about the astonishing improvements in the condition of Europe’s Jews following their emancipation. Such a book might argue: look, obviously past results don’t guarantee future returns; all this progress could be wiped out by some freak future event. But for that to happen, an insane number of things would need to go wrong simultaneously: not just one European country but pretty much all of them would need to be taken over by antisemitic lunatics who were somehow also hyper-competent, and who wouldn’t just harass a few Jews here and there until the lunatics lost power, but would systematically hunt down and exterminate all of them with an efficiency the world had never before seen. Also, for some reason the Jews would need to be unable to escape to Palestine or the US or anywhere else. So the sane, sober prediction is that things will just continue to improve, of course with occasional hiccups (but problems are solvable).</i><p>&gt; <i>Or I thought back to just a few years ago, to the wise people who explained that, sure, for the United States to fall under the control of a racist megalomaniac like Trump would be a catastrophe beyond imagining. Were such a comic-book absurdity realized, there’d be no point even discussing “how to get democracy back on track”; it would already have suffered its extinction-level event. But the good news is that it will never happen, because the voters won’t allow it: a white nationalist authoritarian could never even get nominated, and if he did, he’d lose in a landslide. What did Pat Buchanan get, less than 1% of the vote?</i><p>But the Nazi&#x27;s were defeated, anti-Semitism isn&#x27;t solved but <i>still way less than it used to be</i>, and US citizens <i>are</i> actively fighting Trump &amp; Co.<p>I share the feeling that at some point, we&#x27;re going to see a mass genocide thanks to either CRISPR-based targeted viruses or hard-to-stop drones being much too easy to weaponise by a single nutcase. The world is always resource constrained, and technologies do enable ever more efficient ways of killing ourselves. These are real things to worry about.<p>But the WWII and Trump examples came about because of a different reason: mass communication. What seems to be missing from Aaronson&#x27;s review at the <i>societal</i> level, is the insight from Clay Shirky into what enabled both of these things to happen:<p>&gt; <i>So, what happens when a medium suddenly puts a lot of new ideas into circulation? (...) When the telegraph came along, it was clear that it was going to globalize the news industry. What would this lead to? Well, obviously, it would lead to world peace. The television, a medium that allowed us not just to hear but see, literally see, what was going on elsewhere in the world, what would this lead to? World peace. (Laughter) The telephone? You guessed it: world peace. Sorry for the spoiler alert, but no world peace. Not yet.</i><p>&gt; <i>Even the printing press was assumed to be a tool that was going to enforce Catholic intellectual hegemony across Europe. Instead, what we got was Martin Luther&#x27;s 95 Theses, the Protestant Reformation, and, you know, the Thirty Years&#x27; War. All right, so what all of these predictions of world peace got right is that when a lot of new ideas suddenly come into circulation, it changes society. What they got exactly wrong was what happens next.</i><p>Shirky then continues to discuss that he believes that the reason we stil think of these technologies as <i>good</i> is because it effectively forced us to become better at arguing. His example is that it enabled things like the scientific revolution[0].<p>I have yet to read Pinker&#x27;s newest book, or Better Angels for that matter, so perhaps he addresses these aspect too. I expect him to since he discusses one aspect of this in his earlier language-oriented work: <i>mutual knowledge</i>. Better communication means an improvement in mutual knowledge. And if there is a lot of trauma, resentment and injustice in society, an increase in mutual knowledge brings instability[1]. For example, Shirky&#x27;s does not explicitly mention what the flaw in the reasoning of the Catholic Church was: it was oblivious or ignorant to the huge injustices in their system. The current craziness is coming about because the existing structures turn out not to be working out so well, and need to be changed. But that will be hard and messy process.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ted.com&#x2F;talks&#x2F;clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_one_day_transform_government" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ted.com&#x2F;talks&#x2F;clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3-son3EJTrU&amp;t=7m40s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3-son3EJTrU&amp;t=7m40s</a>
8bitsrule大约 7 年前
A Mar 2018 Long Now seminar podcast (with discussion) can be DL&#x27;d directly at this link. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;longnow.org&#x2F;projects&#x2F;seminars&#x2F;SALT.xml" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;longnow.org&#x2F;projects&#x2F;seminars&#x2F;SALT.xml</a>
zerostar07大约 7 年前
So, if you’re already an optimist, this book is useless
mcguire大约 7 年前
&quot;<i>Or I thought back to just a few years ago, to the wise people who explained that, sure, for the United States to fall under the control of a racist megalomaniac like Trump would be a catastrophe beyond imagining. Were such a comic-book absurdity realized, there’d be no point even discussing “how to get democracy back on track”; it would already have suffered its extinction-level event. But the good news is that it will never happen, because the voters won’t allow it: a white nationalist authoritarian could never even get nominated, and if he did, he’d lose in a landslide.</i>&quot;<p>I&#x27;m not exactly a fan of Trump, but the sheer mass of hyperbole in this article is more irritating than the fiery radiation of a thousand giant elliptical galaxies. I get it, Steven Pinker is the smartest being who has ever lived, evah, but he&#x27;s blinded by his own beatific, deified optimism and cannot see that we are all well and truly fuck&#x27;d, and for the good of the general universe (it&#x27;s far too late for the mere Earth; &quot;<i>...the very thought of the earth gone desolate—its remaining land barely habitable, its oceans a sewer,...</i>&quot;) we should all commit hiri-kiri.<p>But, seriously, if the United States&#x27; system of government cannot withstand a single, or even a series, of really poor decision, then it doesn&#x27;t deserve to survive. (And given what I know about some of the historical presidencies, I hope I can be forgiven for thinking it already has.)<p>Global climate change is <i>bad</i>. But it&#x27;s not so bad as do leave nothing behind but cockroaches and algae. It may leave the state of Florida as an archipelago of levy-surrounded cities (and cause massive destruction and death in the rest of the world) and destroy the agriculture of the central United States (but that was going to happen anyway, when the Ogalala aquifer runs out of water and the Great Plains returns to being the Great American Desert). It&#x27;s going to cause a lot of problems, possibly even including the fall of Western Civilization, or at least those countries that make up Western Civilization. But &quot;barely habitable?&quot; Don&#x27;t get above your station, Scott.<p>As for the Nazis? Bah! Sure, they were bad, but the sum of deaths from WWII, the Soviets, Chinese Communists, and a stack of other genocides don&#x27;t even seem to be noticeable on the graph of population growth in the 20th century. Humanity in general doesn&#x27;t really seem to have cared and certainly the rest of the universe doesn&#x27;t. And the Nazis weren&#x27;t &quot;<i>a desperate, failed attempt to turn back the ratchet of cosmopolitanism and moral progress, by people who viscerally understood that time and history were against them;</i>&quot; they were a follow-on to WWI, which ate the economies and civilian governments of Europe. If not them, Germany could have gone soviet. Or a corporal from France (or England) could have risen to right-wing totalitarian power.
criddell大约 7 年前
Offtopic, but I found the right justification made that kind of hard to read. The big mid-sentence spaces read like pauses in my head.
评论 #16658807 未加载
ebbv大约 7 年前
Pinker has found a fun niche like many authors before him; write books that only the well off and mostly content folks will buy and read and tell them what they want to hear. (Gladwell and many other authors popular among upper middle class and wealthy people play the same game.)<p>And I&#x27;m not saying Pinker lies or anything, but he just gives a point of view that is comforting if you&#x27;re wealthy. His spiel comes down to; &quot;Everything&#x27;s mostly great, it&#x27;s not just you, don&#x27;t worry so much about how great you have it vs the suffering of others. Everything is getting better just as it is.&quot;<p>I know that&#x27;s very reductionist, but to me it&#x27;s kinda what it boils down to.<p>Gladwell pulls the &quot;The complex issues that people around you tell you are complex? Well they have easy secret answers!&quot; game.<p>I find it all very anti-intellectual and it&#x27;s disappointing to me that these authors are so popular and widely praised.
评论 #16662416 未加载
评论 #16657800 未加载