Ask HN: Why does everyone use a MacBook Pro despite saying they suck?

There are 8 billion people on this planet. The people that think MacBook Pros suck are likely very often not the same people that use them. And, when they do overlap, it&#x27;s likely due to technology lock-in (they use Final Cut or whatever) or thinking the other options suck even worse.<p>I have to second the other person recommending a Lenovo X1 Carbon. I had one for awhile and it was just about the perfect laptop. Surface Pro looks nice too.

I&#x27;ve been using macbooks full time for 3 years now and I <i>hate</i> them. They are bad hardware for a high price tag.<p>As a developer they are the perfect middle ground. OSX runs everything I usually run in Linux and I have all the paid for software I&#x27;d run on windows (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc).<p>Prior to switching to mac I just dual booted windows and linux depending on what I needed. Then sketch came out and it was only OSX and I had to make the decision on having a third setup.<p>Then I realized everything I was doing in my 2 OSes I could do in a single one even though I hated the hardware.

With OSX, I get to be lazy when it comes to the OS. No wrangling, configuring like I see friends having to do. The environment is mindless and works. And they&#x27;re pretty. Great screens and resolution. And everyone else had one when I started developing. And I was kind of excited to put a sticker on top of the apple.<p>Switching to linux is in the same category as Vim for me. Something I should do someday.

I think the people who don&#x27;t like it are the loudest. It certainly has some drawbacks (like the keyboard, lack of ports), and for some that&#x27;s a deal-breaker.<p>Personally, I love my MBP I got late last year — 13&quot;, no touchbar. I use the larger, touchbar version for work, and it doesn&#x27;t really suit me.<p>The only things that really bother me are the keyboard and sometimes the lack of ports, but honestly the keyboard is still pretty good, and I don&#x27;t find myself plugging things into my laptop that often.

Because I got tired of the blue screens of death, and despite the MBP being way over priced it does one thing very well... it works 99% of the time. Plus it looks cool, if you care about that sort of thing.

1) people end up with the MBP because they&#x27;ve been very good for a number of years (maybe latest keyboard excepted, I&#x27;m still running on older gens personally).<p>2) Though there are now more alternatives of comparable quality, it&#x27;s a lot of work (and some risk) to dig up that model in the product line of XX supplier. And even if you find a good model, it often gets watered down with similarly named low-quality options so you have to get very specific about model, and you have to do that every time you have to re-buy outside of Apple.<p>That said, if you&#x27;re doing Linux&#x2F;unix work, I&#x27;ve been eyeing up the purism Librem laptops should I need a replacement.

The rest of the team uses them, and the company pays.<p>The new keyboard absolutely sucks.<p>But what&#x27;s even worse, is that with kids around etc, it becomes almost inevitable that there will be some kind of liquid spill etc during the 3-4 year ownership, and that costs ~$700 to replace half the machine, v $50 to replace just the keyboard on most other machines.<p>I had to do it on the 2013 pro (about 1 year after a coffee spill), now I&#x27;m looking at having to pay for (beg the boss to pay for) the awful 2016 pro keyboard again (beer this time, and already a couple of keys are unreliable).

for me, it&#x27;s because nothing matches MBPs trackpad. I never feel I need a mouse using a MBP, but on both Windows and Linux notebooks, I really need a mouse and sit down in front of a table to be productive.

SO I am typing this on my Personal Surface pro, and I have a Macbook Pro (2012) for work. I also have developed a distaste for Macs and am not afraid to voice my view.<p>Simply Mac OS has become shitty in comparison. The Windows XP of the modern era. It&#x27;s got some cool tricks, but the OS is stale, and almost has to be. Windows and Linux can be innovative because they have more too lose (Like Macs in 2001).<p>Mac OS&#x27;s deepest flaw (in my view) is simply terrible window management even compared to earlier versions I have used. If you are a mac head I&#x27;m sure it all makes perfect sense, but as someone who aims to switch comfortably between OSs (to the point that I favor OS neutral apps as much as possible) the radical difference in philosophy for Macs is simply Jarring.<p>But that personal issue aside, the system over relies on security through obscurity. This means that because Mac OS is only used for at most 10% of laptop&#x2F;desktops, and not servers (Linux) or 90% of laptop&#x2F;desktops (Windows) they are an incredibly small target for hackers, and are thusly &quot;Secure&quot; despite regularly ranking at the bottom of security reviews. You can see this in the basic security flaws in every new OS release.<p>Lastly the biggest issue is exposure. The more people there are using something, the more problems there will be. every new person is another chance to find a flaw. Dell, HP, and every computer manufacturer has experienced this.<p>Now all that said why did I pick a Macbook Pro, and why would I recommend anyone buy one? Simply support, unix, and build quality. Macs get a lot of developer support, meaning that you have access to really great tools. This is the same reason to choose windows for the best MS Office support or what not. My Co-Worker has a hackintosh just so he can run music editing software when he is not gaming (which of course he runs windows for).<p>Unix is also a killer feature. You get the great native Posix shell (which LSS on Windows, and just Linux also provides), which makes it easy to develop on and for the Linux&#x2F;unix systems I rely on at work.<p>The build Quality is also great. Windows PCs are finally rivaling Macs, but Macs just are well made and hold up well to age.

Honestly the linux subsystem for windows 10 is good enough for me. I see less and less of a need for an osx box for development if you&#x27;re just looking for a unix subsystem.<p>FWIW I use a Dell XPS 13 and a Surface Pro and both work perfectly well. Install Ubuntu from the app store, get Mobaxterm and run gnome-terminal. You&#x27;re set at that point.

I have no desire to get a MacBook Pro. They are overpriced, you have to carry around dongles for everything and I would rather have real function keys than the touch bar. I actually like both my work and home Dell 2n1s better.<p>On the other hand, I&#x27;m slowly moving away from being a &quot;windows developer&quot;. I&#x27;m still using .Net but it&#x27;s .Net Core. As I start seeing how great the &quot;Windows Tax&quot; is as far as system resources and cost when it comes to running hosted servers, Docker, serverless functions, etc. it makes no sense to stay on Windows, but I really don&#x27;t feel like mucking with Linux on my personal computer. I&#x27;ve owned Macs in the past and having both commercial software, and a real Unix operating system would be ideal and of course I could do iOS development.<p>So the question is, do you need a laptop? For $100 more you can get a 27 inch 5K iMac with 32GB of RAM a 2TB fusion drive. You get a faster computer, twice as much RAM. A better keyboard, a more performant GPU and USB 3 ports.

Who says they suck? They very much DO NOT suck. Every time I use a PC laptop, I am reminded why I use Bootcamp or a VM for Windows on an MBP.<p>However, I need a new laptop and I really don&#x27;t want the Touch Bar MBPs. :( I don&#x27;t know anyone that likes them.

The Razer Blade is a surprisingly capable, beautiful alternative.<p>I will say that the primary driver is more being on MacOS, which is a nice middle ground for ease of use for our developer team that&#x27;s primarily working in things like Ruby on Rails and React, and also really great for movie editing for our marketing folks.<p>We&#x27;re all still holding hope that the next MBP fixes the keyboard issues. Personally I&#x27;m still jamming on a 2011 MBA that&#x27;s probably the single most reliable, functional piece of hardware I&#x27;ve ever owned. It&#x27;s the definitive workhorse. It&#x27;s a shame the quality hasn&#x27;t kept pace across the other lines and new models.

I think a certain, very vocal group of people violently reacted to the 2016 re-design&#x27;s keyboard and switch to USB-C. But I also think that most users are still pretty happy with their Macs most of the time - they just don&#x27;t post blog posts about that.<p>I understand the complaints about keyboard failures due to dust getting under keys, but my personal experience with a 2016 model has been fine. I had to blow it out once with compressed air after 1.5 years and it worked again fine after that. It took two minutes and wasn&#x27;t a big deal to me.<p>I don&#x27;t understand the violent hate of the switch to USB-C. I find it super convenient that my phone (Samsung S8), laptop and Nintendo Switch all charge from the same power cable. And getting a couple of thin USB-C end-cap convertors on Amazon to plug in older USB devices cost me less than $10. It just hasn&#x27;t been a negative at all for me.<p>Beyond that, Macs in general are a great compromise for developers who want to write code that runs primarily on Linux servers but who don&#x27;t want to run Linux as a laptop OS (which can be a pain in the ass on laptops due to unpredictable battery drain, unreliable suspend&#x2F;restore, no native support for software like Photoshop&#x2F;Lightroom, less polished UI, whatever your reasons).<p>Windows has gotten a lot better in that regard, but a lot of Unix-native stuff still sucks to install and run on Windows. Docker on Windows is a dog, installing various native extensions for Python is a real pain in Windows, etc.<p>There&#x27;s lots of little paper cuts using Windows in a Linux environment because Windows is just so different than Linux. For example, you can write and test a Docker file on a Windows machine that won&#x27;t rebuild cleanly on a Linux server because on Windows you don&#x27;t have to chmod +x your Docker entrypoint script, but on Linux the Docker image won&#x27;t start after a rebuild because the entrypoint script will get installed with your local file permissions (which aren&#x27;t set to +x by default). That&#x27;s just one tiny example, but that&#x27;s the kind of thing that illustrates why people building code primarily for for Linux servers might not prefer using Windows on their personal machine.

Because they don&#x27;t suck?<p>I think people are mostly complaining about the direction the last update took, such as the touchbar which seems more targeted at less experienced computer users and lack of RAM options beyond 16gb, etc.

I have been a Mac user for less than 5 years now, and have used 4 Macs ranging from 2012 to 2017 models. I don&#x27;t think they suck.<p>For most purposes, even dev ones, they are very nice. Stable, reliable, performant. They might not be the top-of-the-line laptops but they are awesome at getting things done - as long as you don&#x27;t want to impose your own requirements on it (OS, storage, RAM, etc.)<p>I do have to agree that they are damn expensive though. I cringe at the thought of replacing my old one and am NOT doing that unless its imperative. :|

I like my MBP, but if I got a different job and was picking a laptop, I&#x27;d first figure out what the rest of the team is using. At my current job, the whole team I&#x27;m on (and most of the company) use Macs, so bringing new people into projects is easy because pretty much everyone has the same setup.<p>If everyone here used Windows, I&#x27;d probably begrudgingly switch.

Because of Terminal. It means most software you would use on a web server will install easily with the help of HomeBrew etc...<p>I&#x27;ve seen developers waste an entire week trying to get basic things like docker to run on Windows...<p>I&#x27;m sure things have gotten better in Windows land, but now that I already have my Macbook, the impetus for change is just not there...

I don&#x27;t own a MBP, but I use one for work, so this is mostly geared toward a work environment.<p>I was &quot;that one jackass who uses Linux instead of OSX&quot; at a previous company. At my current job, I use a MBP like everyone else.<p>I don&#x27;t think the MBP sucks; for me, an external keyboard and Bluetooth mouse solve almost all the annoyances. I find that things work a little more smoothly when I&#x27;m using the same operating environment as everyone else. Getting help when things don&#x27;t work is easier, too. I have confidence that things like screen sharing will work and not cause me grief. If there&#x27;s an app that my company wants to use, I just download and run it without checking if there&#x27;s a Linux version.<p>The bottom line is that it&#x27;s a lot of little conveniences that add up, with little downside.

My 2012 MBP is still going strong and I see no need to replace it. That never happend to me with Windows laptops that I used for a decade before that.<p>I love the trackpad of MBPs. The aesthetics and physical build are good. The OS hardly ever gets in my way. The UI has been stable and usable and improving over the last 6 years of use. Apple&#x27;s hardware service has been great (had video card issue a couple of years ago - $200 flat rate fix got me new motherboard, new screen with top cover, new video card). It has all the ports I need. Magsafe connector is genious. The display is crystal clear and high res.<p>I have had a genuinely good experience with my 2012 MBP. Barring bad hardware luck and missteps by Apple like the touch bar, people complaining about MBPs are being nitpicky.

In my opinion there is no alternative. In the new MacBook pro the keyboard feels great. I have access to UNIX terminal and access MS office Apps. More over Apple commitment (so far) to privacy keeps you safe.

Because, like monarchy, they are still the least worst option when considering both the OS and hardware combined, for most people.<p>The issues with the latest macbooks are real and severe, but running windows or linux, even on nice hardware like an X1, remains a sufficiently annoying and disruptive change to stop people. We can all hope that eventually this will change, but as of right now I don&#x27;t see a forcing function.

I got mine in 2015 and I love it. I&#x27;ll have to replace the touchpad cable later today, but I&#x27;m pretty sure it&#x27;ll survive.<p>This 2015 model comes with MagSafe, USB-A, and a physical Escape key: all features you won&#x27;t find on the newest model.<p>I won&#x27;t be buying another Mac. But I do love this one.<p>Next laptop will probably be some Dell XPS, Lenovo X1, or Surface Pro. It&#x27;ll depend on what I&#x27;ll need at work.

1. Homebrew 2. iTerm 3. Cmd + R for recovery mode 4. A multi touch trackpad. Move quickly between workspaces. 5. Fast! I have 500GB with 16GB RAM. Yes its expensive for I get, but I had bad times relying on windows laptop. 6. Save and restore Application states after reboot! 7. VIM! I love vim. 8. Blend of linux and Xwindows.<p>This things are top of my list. I use windows PC just for gaming. :)

An additional reason: When they came out, the latest updates on the (other) existing machines had been looooong ago.<p>I had been very happy with a succession of MacBook Airs, and when my machine died end of 2016, I wanted to get a new laptop running macOS, and they were basically all years old - except the shiny new MBP, which I got (despite saying they suck, for the price at any rate).

The one I bought 6 years ago is finally beginning to fade, so I am replacing it with a new one that is the 2015 model with the non-touch-dealie keyboard.<p>Most of my friends who rail against macbook pro are about the keyboard issues. This model has the older style keyboard and none of the issues.

I have been looking at the Lenovo X1 Carbon or a Surface Pro to replace my aging MacBook Air.

If you can get used a TrackPoint (the nub thing on ThinkPads) or similar on another brand it&#x27;s probably a better alternative to a MBP. I did as of a few years ago and would never go back to the imprecise and slow navigation with a trackpad.

I have thinkpads of various kinds for work and home and run linux mostly. MBPs do suck.

Company where I work decided it is simpler to buy macbooks for everyone than handle each request separately.<p>Would never buy it with my own money, but it kind of works although I still could not get macvim to read my font settings from .vimrc

Lenovo X1 Carbon user here. Never touched any Apple product in my entire life.

Moreanecdata:spacekeydoesn&#x27;twork.IlovethenewMBP&lt;&#x2F;sarcasm&gt;

Why is there much more discussion about apple laptops than thinkpads? I feel linux on thinkpad would the most efficient combination for people who call themselves &#x27;hackers&#x27;

Overpriced, and macOS is not hackable, no touch screen, not much apps as windows.<p>ChromeOS with Linux apps support + Android for mobile &#x2F; desktop (like samsung dex dock) will kill them all !!!

High price, but really good hardware. Battery life is amazing, the screen is amazing. Its not 4k, but high enough DPI. Plus computers with 4k screen have crappy battery life.

I&#x27;d complain a lot less if there was a vendor selling an alternative Linux&#x2F;Unix solution with a comparable quality of hardware&#x2F;software integration.

I think it comes down to a few adages... You can please all of the people some of the time, you can please some of the people all of the time...<p>and<p>trackpad size is like salt, you can have too much.

Because for the people you describe, they love MBP&#x27;s and no other option comes close for what they prefer, but with love comes wanting it to be more perfect.

I am still using my 2008 MacBook Pro, upgraded with SSD. It’s on its third replacement battery, but I only get 3-4 hours use, if even that.<p>My next laptop will be a Surface.

You get unix that JustWorks© a GREAT touchpad, mostly good battery life, the OS and HW quality has gotten worse, but they&#x27;re still solid mahines

It’s like what Churchill said about democracy: “it’s the worst system of governance, with the exception of any other system that was ever used”

The plural of an anecdote is not data. People who don&#x27;t have any problem with the MBP don&#x27;t complainte about it.

when the touchbar macs with only usb c ports came out I went to the used market and bought the best used macbook pro I could find that still had hdmi, thunderbolt and USB.<p>I love my macbook, but mainly I love having a *nix based operating system. Windows is starting to get it and so in the next iteration of hardware I might switch over.

because companies will only provide mbps

I bought a 2015 MacBook Pro from the Apple Refurb store - very happy with it: USB ports and good keyboard.

I don&#x27;t — I use a laptop from Zareason. It runs Debian, and I&#x27;m happy with it.

What&#x27;s the alternative? Linux? Windows? Take the top 10 most valuable Tech companies in the world. Their dev folks use Macs and probably MBP&#x27;s. Do you really think you need something better than that? Again, it does not exist... doesn&#x27;t stop us from making a lot of money shipping code.

Same reason I wear Nike&#x27;s despite them being uncomfortable. Brand ego

obviously their money is already spent, and exchanging mbp for a proper laptop is not always worth it<p>and there are always people that just don&#x27;t know better<p>and mbp ca. 2015 is pretty usable and not terribly expensive

Real hackers plug in an ergodox anyway, so keyboard is a non-issue

the main problem for people complaining about the new macbooks pro is the keyboard. just buy a silicone keyboard cover protection and it&#x27;s working great!

system76 laptops are really nice and you know the hardware works in Linux. Google them. I&#x27;ve used one for five years and love it.

PC architecture is trash, and the overall consumer market for PC hardware is a race-to-the bottom.<p>That being said, as PC hardware goes, MacBook Pro is at least tolerable.

I will continue to jump through hoops in order to get the integrated experience of macOS. There is a huge gap between developing on Windows and Mac.

Buy the older ones (2014-ish) from ebay

obviously they don&#x27;t have any money for a proper laptop after buying such an expensive device

Alienware R15

macOS

trackpad

The only reason I have one: You need it to build and test iOS apps. If you’re working with mobile apps, you can’t afford to ignore iOS.<p>Other than that - can’t stand Apple, iOS or Macs.

Mediocre hardware and specs at an ultra premium price. What&#x27;s not to like?