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Ask HN: Why is there no common standard secure replacement for email?

11 点作者 parvenu74将近 7 年前
It doesn’t seem like this should be difficult. HTTPS is the default now for web traffic; why don’t we have a secure-in-transit, secure-at-rest replacement for email?

5 条评论

twunde将近 7 年前
Most email providers do offer encryption in transit and at rest email. Email sent by any modern provider is sent over TLS. As proof both Gmail and office365 are HIPAA compliant. There are also additional protections such as DKIM that can be enabled. Or as otherwise mentioned, you can encrypt your emails with an additional layer of encryption using keys that you manage so that if Google/Microsoft/etc are exploited your emails are still encrypted.
fsecond722将近 7 年前
With ur use of so many technical terms I guess u are a real IT guru. I would like us to be friends. I think we will fit together well
crooked-v将近 7 年前
Because everybody else is using email.
userbinator将近 7 年前
PGP is the standard but most people don't use it, because it is not so easy to use.
md_将近 7 年前
The one-word answer is &quot;federation.&quot;<p>What makes email (by which, here and below, I mean SMTP) universal is what makes it hard to retrofit (with new protocols or standards): it&#x27;s federated, relying only on DNS for namespacing (i.e., for discovering the authoritative owner for a given user identifier), and it&#x27;s widely implemented.<p>Skipping over the &quot;secure-at-rest&quot; statement for a moment, the difference between HTTPS and email is that HTTPS has <i>user-facing</i> security: the choice to use encryption is user-facing (if the user manually typed &quot;HTTPS&quot;), the actual use of encryption is user-visible (in the URL bar), and what to do if authentication fails can be decided by the user (with an error message and a possible user override).<p>Email does not have this, which results in a few distinct problems:<p>1. Users do not, typically, know if they are going to be using secure transport, so there&#x27;s no market incentive at work here (to use a provider who offers, say, STARTTLS or DANE). Hypothetically, a provider could offer users the ability to require STARTTLS on a sent message (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datatracker.ietf.org&#x2F;doc&#x2F;draft-fenton-smtp-require-tls" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datatracker.ietf.org&#x2F;doc&#x2F;draft-fenton-smtp-require-t...</a> and associated discussions in the working group for arguments against this approach) or could try to expose DANE or MTA-STS (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datatracker.ietf.org&#x2F;doc&#x2F;draft-ietf-uta-mta-sts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;datatracker.ietf.org&#x2F;doc&#x2F;draft-ietf-uta-mta-sts&#x2F;</a>) status at message compose-time, but since delivery time and compose time are different, and delivery happens asynchronously in the background (from the user&#x27;s perspective), it&#x27;s hard to really make this a UI feature.<p>2. Absent something like &quot;require-tls&quot;, MTAs can&#x27;t always determine encryption support for a given recipient. Because recipient MX resolution ultimately has to support unencrypted DNS, senders <i>always</i> have to support falling back to unauthenticated MX records and, consequently, unauthenticated delivery. One of the few (or, as tptacek says, only) useful applications of DNSSEC is solving this problem: by allowing authenticated discovery of <i>DNSSEC</i> <i>support</i> from the root server on down, DNSSEC allows senders to see if a recipient domain <i>should</i> support DNSSEC, <i>does</i> support DNSSEC, and, via DNSSEC, what the authenticated MX (and, optionally,TLSA) records are for that domain and the MX. But DNSSEC has a host of its own problems, is not widely deployed, and would not fix #1 above, so senders still wouldn&#x27;t know <i>if</i> their message would be encrypted in transit!<p>3. PGP and S&#x2F;MIME are the standards for end-to-end encryption and can be layered on top without support from the MTA or host, but both suck for a variety of reasons: they&#x27;re often hard to use, they break webmail (which is by far the most common usage), they often break multi-device or multi-client usage (e.g. webmail and smartphone), they don&#x27;t provide modern cryptographic features (like PFS), they often have no good&#x2F;secure means of automated key discovery (unless you want to meet a bunch of beardy men at a party), etc.<p>If all of that is too longwinded, I think the simple explanation is federation, without a resource locator that indicates preference for or support of secure delivery, resulting in a protocol that is hard to retrofit against downgrade attacks.
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