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U.S. Supreme Court will hear Apple's appeal of App Store class-action lawsuit

79 点作者 sidhanthp将近 7 年前

9 条评论

DannyBee将近 7 年前
The issue here is very different than people seem to think.<p>The supreme court granted cert on one question:<p>&quot;Whether consumers may sue for antitrust damages anyone who delivers goods to them, even where they seek damages based on prices set by third parties who would be the immediate victims of the alleged offense.&quot;<p>(This is apple&#x27;s statement of the question, and thus necessarily is tilted in how they see things)<p>The petition summary has more details and is quite short: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scotusblog.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2017&#x2F;10&#x2F;17-204-petition.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scotusblog.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2017&#x2F;10&#x2F;17-204-...</a><p>There is a circuit split on this issue, which is likely why the supreme court took it. It&#x27;s mostly about indirect purchasers vs direct purchasers. Indirect purchasers cannot sue, only direct purchasers can, mainly because it&#x27;s really hard to apportion damages properly.<p>The previous major case on distribution monopolization was an eight circuit case about ticketmaster, Campos v. Ticketmaster Corp, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;caselaw.findlaw.com&#x2F;us-8th-circuit&#x2F;1097030.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;caselaw.findlaw.com&#x2F;us-8th-circuit&#x2F;1097030.html</a>. Section II of that opinion is a fairly readable rundown of the issue of direct vs indirect purchasing and who gets to sue.<p>Ticketmaster held that people paying greater distribution fees to ticketmaster as a result of their monopoly could not sue, as they are indirect purchasers.<p>The ninth circuit, in the apple case, held differently, holding that apple was selling directly to consumers, regardless of whether app developers got to set price. The opinion, which is also quite readable, is here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.leagle.com&#x2F;decision&#x2F;infco20170112133" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.leagle.com&#x2F;decision&#x2F;infco20170112133</a>. Again, i&#x27;d just read the part starting with &quot;plaintiffs are direct purchasers&quot;<p>Personally, i think the dissent in ticketmaster (and the ninth circuit) got it right. This is also what the ninth circuit explicitly says. In these models, only the people at the bottom make sense as the people to sue, as when you control distribution carefully like this, they are the only injured party.
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CobrastanJorji将近 7 年前
&gt; its phones’ ecosystems are closed for security reasons since it can vet App Store apps for malicious code and other dangers.<p>I&#x27;m not saying that this is not true, but given that Apple&#x27;s app store revenue will probably be greater than global movie ticket revenue in 2018, I suspect that &quot;security precaution&quot; is perhaps not 100% of the motivation behind blocking all competition.
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MBCook将近 7 年前
The Supreme Court isn’t ruling on if the App Store is legal, they’re ruling on if the class has grounds to sue correct?
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Spivak将近 7 年前
&gt; Businesses that potentially could be threatened by such consumer litigation are electronic marketplaces like the App Store, ticket site StubHub, Amazon’s Marketplace and eBay where individual sellers set prices.<p>I don&#x27;t think the important fact of the case is the fact that sellers can set their own prices, but the fact that a single entity has total control over the distribution of a broad category of 3rd-party consumer good. So it&#x27;s not Amazon and StubHub that should be worried, but groups like Nintendo, Microsoft&#x27;s Xbox division, Sony, or The Blu-ray Disc Association.
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debt将近 7 年前
Apps are extremely tricky. The 30% does seem like a lot but if you consider a few things:<p><i>Apple is providing an instantaneous, global distribution network.</i><p>Save your ability to market the app, you can effectively guarantee the same experience across billions of disparate devices. The open web can not provide the same piece of mind in terms of security to the end user.<p><i>The app vetting process isn&#x27;t free.</i><p>Apple is ensuring quality within the App Store. Bad apps still get past Apple&#x27;s vetting rules and are retroactively denied all the time. This creates extremely a strong sense of trust between the customer and Apple. Consumers become less and less risk-averse when it comes to downloading new apps from the App Store. Again, I&#x27;d argue this runs counter to the open web due to its long history of leaks, hacks, privacy violations, phishing attempts, etc. The Apple App Store currently has the highest bar for an &quot;open&quot; ecosystem of independently-developed software.<p><i>Apple provides the service of the App Store at its own expense.</i><p>The App Store has pulled in $100BB over 10 years which is great, but I&#x27;m sure they&#x27;d turn it off in a heartbeat if it consistently caused serious security breaches within the phone.<p>Tim Cook has gone on record so many times about the personal and private nature of the phone. Whether it&#x27;s possible or not for a rogue app to circumvent Apple&#x27;s numerous security safeguards is irrelevant as security is a policy Apple takes extremely seriousl; maybe to their own detriment.<p><i>Apple has a history of providing basic, free alternatives to apps that monopolize particular verticals within the App Store.</i><p>Calculator, Flashlight, the various flavors of Timer functionality, the new ARKit Ruler app, etc. I don&#x27;t view these Apple-provided apps as akin to drug stores offering basic alternatives to things like Tylenol etc. it&#x27;s good for the overall App market economy as it should stem the rise of local monopolies.<p>Ironically, the only app in which Apple does not offer an alternative is the App Store. The App Store isn&#x27;t an alternative, it&#x27;s simply the only way to download apps.<p>I do see a future where phones will have a heavily-reduced version of iOS that offers a small subset of Apple-created apps without the App Store. The numbers don&#x27;t lie, most iPhone users do not download apps, or only download less than 10 apps over the lifetime of the phone.<p>At the end of the day, apps must be vetted for quality because Apple has a brand to maintain. They simply can&#x27;t allow apps that seriously compromise the performance of the phone or the privacy of the data on it. It&#x27;s not within the realm of an allowable reality as per Apple policy.<p>The 30% taken by Apple may be eclipsed by the App Store ad revenue. I assume they&#x27;ll greatly reduce the 30% cut moving forward as the App Store ad revenue increases.
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dang将近 7 年前
Url changed from <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;6&#x2F;18&#x2F;17474760&#x2F;apple-app-store-ios-supreme-court-lawsuit-hearing-pepper" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;6&#x2F;18&#x2F;17474760&#x2F;apple-app-store-...</a>, which points to this.
ocdtrekkie将近 7 年前
It&#x27;s hard to even characterize the level of impact a case like this could have. For years, the tech industry has understood that the key to success is to control the platform, and then get other developers building on and generating income for your platform. Imagine the sheer number of businesses that may have their business model blown apart by this.<p>If a company is ruled against on having their own app store on their own OS on their own devices, when they aren&#x27;t even a monopoly-level player in the larger market, this will blow apart nearly any app store model out there.<p>I&#x27;ll, uh, get my popcorn ready.
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mankash666将近 7 年前
This kind of behavior - where whole swaths of consumers pay inflated prices, and have choice severely restricted, but the company enforcing such monopoly gets away on a ludicrous technicality, needs to end.<p>However you look at it, completely locking down hardware owned by the user, to apps blessed by the manufacturer is the text-book definition of anti-competitive, and lest we forget, didn&#x27;t exist before Apple&#x27;s false &quot;but it&#x27;s all for the consumer&#x27;s good&quot; marketing blitzkrieg. Regardless of the B.S. mental gymnastics employed by Apple and it&#x27;s shills, it is unfairly placed as a kingmaker in a $60B app-store market - and it&#x27;s app store is designed to place it as a monopoly controller of software running on it&#x27;s phones.
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mnm1将近 7 年前
If the Apple app store isn&#x27;t a monopoly I don&#x27;t know what is. These kind of practices make Microsoft&#x27;s anti trust practices from the 90&#x27;s look like child&#x27;s play. I hope the Supreme Court doesn&#x27;t fall for their bullshit lies about security being the reason for this setup but I doubt any of the justices will even understand the case properly, let alone make intelligent decisions.
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