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Hundreds of skulls reveal massive scale of human sacrifice in Aztec capital

311 点作者 DanAndersen将近 7 年前

22 条评论

azeotropic将近 7 年前
They dismiss Cortez and his men as exaggerating the number of skulls when they claimed 130,000, but if you start calculating how many are in the image of the reconstruction in the article, it&#x27;s easily close to 100,000.<p>This reminds me of how the academic consensus was that child sacrifice in Carthage was merely Roman propaganda, until they dug up the massive infant necropolis near the temple to Moloch (yes, that Moloch -- the Carthaginians were Canaanites).<p>Even the Romans made human sacrifices (not just gladiators, or feeding Christians to the lions). When things got particularly grim in the Punic wars, they sacrificed two Gauls and a Greek in the forum.<p>Human sacrifice was alarmingly common.
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InTheArena将近 7 年前
Threads that are respectful, interesting and insightful like this are why I adore HN. Please don’t ever change.<p>That aside, As a historian, I think our skepticism of primary sources has gone way way way to far. Plutarch is ignored, because Roman. Cortez was ignored because Spanish. Do they have reason to exaggerate? Sure and they at times do. But the archeological evidence on both Carthage and Cortez was really clear.<p>We continue to find sites with mass sacrifices (not just of children) in Central and South America (Aztec, Mayan, and Inca) and instead of disregarding it due to the Spanish reports, students should understand that these incidents were probably a big reason why Spain so quickly supplanted the Aztecs.
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throwaway43532将近 7 年前
Despite the many issues, I&#x27;d still suggest anyone interested in the Aztec empire at the time of the Spanish conquest to read The Conquest of New Spain by Bernal Díaz del Castillo. Díaz was present not only on the Cortés expedition, but on the earlier expeditions led by Córdoba and Grijalva.<p>The article mentions, plausibly so, that the issue of human sacrifice was often exaggerated by the Spaniards. Nevertheless, it is clear that the practice (and self-mutilation, primarily of the ears) was an important aspect of not just Aztec life, but many of their neighbors&#x27; as well.<p>Díaz writes, &quot;I have spent a long time talking about the great <i>cue</i> of Tlatelcoco and its courts. I will conclude by saying that it was the biggest temple in Mexico, though there were many other fine ones, for every four or five parishes or districts supported a shrine with idols; and since there were many districts I cannot keep a count of them all. [...] Every province had its own idols, and those of one province or city were no help in another. Therefore they had infinite numbers of idols and sacrificed to them all.&quot;<p>Discussion of deities and their numbers aside, Díaz&#x27; repeated report is that sacrifices of various sorts were widespread, and that evidence of human sacrifice, or the holding of prisoners intended for sacrifice, was found almost universally from the coast to Mexico.<p>Edit: Reading again, on the subject of <i>tzompantli</i>, or a similar arrangement for sacrificed remains, Díaz writes, &quot;They strike open the...chest with flint knives and hastily tear out the still palpitating heart which, with the blood, they present to the idols in whose name they have performed the sacrifice. Then they cut off the arms, thighs, and head, eating the arms and thighs at their ceremonial banquets. The head they hang up on a beam, and the body of the sacrificed man is not eaten but given to the beasts of prey.&quot;
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jcims将近 7 年前
When I see a bunch of skulls in one place like this, or in the catacombs, it makes me think of the accumulated experience of people. Not because of the brains in the skulls or whatever, but just that each skull represents a single human life. Most of the time these are adult skulls, guessing 30+ years each. That&#x27;s a lot of living.<p>I just asked google to solve a couple of problems for me. What is the current population, and how many years do they experience in one hour on the wall clock?<p>Current world population according to Google: 7.6B How many years in 7.6B hours: 867,579.9<p>So we are nearly at a point where there are a million years of human live&#x2F;conciousness&#x2F;etc experienced every hour.<p>That&#x27;s a lot.
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walterbell将近 7 年前
Our understanding of Maya language and culture has been rewritten over the past 50 years, thanks to the leadership of an art teacher, Linda Schele, who found that hundreds of years of &quot;accepted archaeology wisdom&quot; was incomplete.<p>There&#x27;s a documentary and several books about her work: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kF4lue30vgg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kF4lue30vgg</a> &amp; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Ag5fGFwWwBU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Ag5fGFwWwBU</a><p>She was invited by NASA to speak at a symposium about alien civilizations. If we hope to understand other species, we can start by learning more about &quot;other&quot; humans.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Linda_Schele" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Linda_Schele</a>
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abrowne将近 7 年前
Interesting timing soon after a review of a recent book about Cortés: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nybooks.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2018&#x2F;05&#x2F;24&#x2F;mexico-curse-of-cortes&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nybooks.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2018&#x2F;05&#x2F;24&#x2F;mexico-curse-of-c...</a><p>The review says that &quot;most estimates of the frequency of human sacrifices in Tenochtitlan come from an unfounded assertion by the Franciscan friar Diego Valadés, who was born twenty-two years after the city fell. Valadés claimed that between 15,000 and 20,000 people were sacrificed in Tenochtitlan per year.&quot; Later, &quot;Cortés’s confessor and the first formal historian of the Conquest of Mexico, raised the figure to 50,000.&quot;<p>&quot;The number is remarkable for how preposterous it is: more than 137 sacrifices a day, five an hour, one every twelve minutes, twenty-four hours a day. Aztec sacrifice was a nonmechanized process that demanded extensive ritual preparation and an individually selected victim, and archaeologists have never found evidence to support the Spaniards’ figures. As [the book&#x27;s author] points out, although human skulls have been retrieved from ritual burial grounds close to Tenochtitlan’s Templo Mayor (the city’s main temple), most of the sacrificial remains that have been found belong to animals—wolves mostly—and these remains don’t add up even to hundreds of victims, let alone thousands.&quot;<p>Also, regarding cannibalism, &quot;owing to a [Spanish] royal law from 1503, an enemy fighter who practiced cannibalism could be enslaved for life, and shortly before Cortés left Cuba for Mexico a smallpox epidemic caused a drastic reduction in native manual labor in the Caribbean. The later narratives that were so insistent on the subject of cannibalism are always, in [the author&#x27;s] view, related to the conquistador generation’s claim to cost-free indigenous servitude. This argument became especially important after the Crown abolished native slavery and gave indigenous subjects rights identical to those of Spaniards in the New Laws of 1542.&quot;
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zawerf将近 7 年前
Are we sure it&#x27;s really all human sacrifice and not just an ossuary?<p>For example a major tourist attraction underneath Paris is the The Catacombs where you can walk through tunnels paved with the skulls of over 6 million people. It&#x27;s an amazing sight but would be extremely creepy without the context of a huge modern city above.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Catacombs_of_Paris" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Catacombs_of_Paris</a>
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75dvtwin将近 7 年前
It is difficult to celebrate historical achievements of our ancestors, when we read about them, passages similar to this.<p>&quot;.... Other Mesoamerican cultures also engaged in human sacrifice and built tzompantlis. But, &quot;The Mexica certainly brought this to an extreme,&quot; says Vera Tiesler ….&quot;<p>&quot;... Gomóz Valdás found that about 75% of the skulls examined so far belonged to men, most between the ages of 20 and 35—prime warrior age. But 20% were women, and 5% belonged to children.<p>Most victims seemed to be in relatively good health before they were sacrificed. &quot;If they are war captives, they aren&#x27;t randomly grabbing the stragglers,&quot; Gómez Valdés says. The mix of ages and sexes also supports another Spanish claim, that many victims were slaves sold in the city&#x27;s markets expressly to be sacrificed.<p>…&quot;<p>But, yet, we do. And I guess, we are the descendants of the survivors, and in our chromosomes -- especially the ones inherited from the paternal lineage -- we have the &#x27;winners&#x27; of the wars of the past...<p>I still can not comprehend, how a grown man can do stuff like this, especially to a woman or a child, staring into their eyes...<p>May be the people who performed these things, had to medicate themselves to alter their own consciousness of some sort. Otherwise, how could they?
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Mirioron将近 7 年前
And they didn&#x27;t even mention ball games being part of human sacrifice either. Apparently, sometimes the losers in a ball game would be sacrificed.<p>I have a really biased view on their culture, because whenever I read about it the human sacrifice element is constantly in the back of my mind.
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defen将近 7 年前
That rendering of the Templo Mayor really evokes a sense of existential dread in me...it’s one thing to see something like that in a video game or horror movie, but knowing it was real is deeply unsettling.
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gjpr将近 7 年前
Choice tweets from the author:<p>Thanks for reading and sharing my story on Tenochtitlan&#x27;s tzompantli, the rack where the skulls of the sacrificed were displayed. But it&#x27;s time for a discussion on why this practice was not &quot;horrific&quot; or &quot;loaded [with] evil,&quot; as some of you have said <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.co&#x2F;GBZW1TXflv" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.co&#x2F;GBZW1TXflv</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;lizzie_wade&#x2F;status&#x2F;1010178681334050822" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;lizzie_wade&#x2F;status&#x2F;1010178681334050822</a><p>It&#x27;s hard for me to imagine that people <i>wanted</i> to be sacrificed, but that&#x27;s my own biases and cultural conditioning talking. How I see the world, filtered through centuries of colonial oppression and destruction, is irrelevant to understanding how they saw the world.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;lizzie_wade&#x2F;status&#x2F;1010178688254730244" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;lizzie_wade&#x2F;status&#x2F;1010178688254730244</a><p>(Credit: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;isteve&#x2F;makes-ya-think&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;isteve&#x2F;makes-ya-think&#x2F;</a>)
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DoreenMichele将近 7 年前
This article doesn&#x27;t specifically mention cannibalism, but in my twenties I read a book that posited that &quot;the lamb&quot; of Christianity being a symbol of peace, as well as the Hindu reverence for the cow, were based on their ability to provide food security because they are grazers who are able to turn grass into protein. Grass is not a human food source. So this means they don&#x27;t compete for the same food sources we do.<p>Aztecs had cook books full of recipes for things like &quot;human ribs with hot peppers.&quot; Some old temples had bread fruit trees lining the avenue up to the temple. Bread fruit is another source of protein.<p>IIRC, the book posited that the Aztecs were cannibals because South America had no native animals like cows or sheep that fed predominantly on grass. Thus they were chronically short on protein and this helped make them a very war like people. If you are all going to die anyway because there is not enough food, dying in battle is both psychologically better for the culture and offers the chance that we win, we take we what we need and we feed our people.<p>Most wars are ultimately rooted in resource shortages. Real peace is ultimately rooted in problem solving to make sure there are enough resources to go around and that those resources get more or less equitably or &quot;fairly&quot; distributed, in some sense and to some degree. Society can survive economic inequality, but there comes a point past which economic inequality is too much of a hardship on some groups and this routinely goes bad places.<p>Edit: I confess to being an Ugly American who has a bad habit of lumping South America and Central America together and not making clear distinctions in that regards. Substitute &quot;the lands of the Aztecs&quot; for <i>South America.</i>
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donbright将近 7 年前
im glad modern civilizations never sacrifice young people for insane belief systems.
adityapurwa将近 7 年前
I wonder whether they put the head there on its skeleton form, or when it still has it flesh, eyes, brains, etc. which make the images more scary. I imagine having a wall made of decapitated head and its bloody mess is very disturbing. Anyone had any reference on information on this?
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mexica123434将近 7 年前
They were not aztecs! They were mexicas.And to put things into context the university of oxford is older than Mexico-tenochtitlan(1325 of our age). Repeat with me mexicas.
User23将近 7 年前
Tlaloc thirsts! Look do you want rain or not?
EngineerBetter将近 7 年前
Blimey, humans are really odd.
swayvil将近 7 年前
They must have been getting good results.
zebraflask将近 7 年前
This is, in the anthropological sense, completely wrong. Widespread disease caused mass graves.
coding123将近 7 年前
I know this comment won&#x27;t be accepted too well here, but as people become vegetarians&#x2F;vegans even, but more importantly start seeing animals as other beings with souls - it becomes clear how barbaric our society STILL is. Again, only visible to some people that have rejected some pretty common norms.<p>It is interesting because in those times it was politically and socially acceptable to be OK with other humans being sacrificed.<p>A man explained how he hit a deer today, and I just filled with sadness, but his immediate POV was getting his car fixed, his tire no longer aligned and how his drive is wobbly.<p>As a species we really don&#x27;t have a built in moral system, it&#x27;s nearly 100% socially driven morals.
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ourmandave将近 7 年前
Jeez, and I thought our immigration policies were harsh.
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partycoder将近 7 年前
Human sacrifice occurred in the Americas, that is well established. But similar things did happen elsewhere. In Europe, Asia and Asia... at massive scale.<p>What is the Roman Catholic Inquisition exactly? It can be oversimplified to burning people so God is happy. It is a form of human sacrifice. Up to 300,000 people died that way.<p>So if we are going to talk about human sacrifice let&#x27;s apply the term consistently.
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