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Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why

97 点作者 hudon将近 7 年前

11 条评论

fipple将近 7 年前
&quot;Diversity&quot; is just overrated completely, as a concept. The highest-performing company in America, Apple, has close to zero race or gender diversity, and if you peel back one layer, it has very little diversity of thought&quot; as well. Why? Because the company was built to execute Steve Jobs&#x27; ideas. The more that any given executive could run an emulator of Steve Jobs&#x27; brain, the less of Jobs&#x27; time he required. &quot;Ideas are cheap, execution is everything&quot; we have all heard. Well, if you don&#x27;t need a lot of ideas, but you need a streamlined execution organization, diversity is a huge weakness!<p>For every fun example of &quot;Oh, only a tattoo wearer would recognize that this product wouldn&#x27;t work for people with tattoos! Diversity would have halped!&quot; there are the Silicon Valley giants, achieving ridiculous financial results with highly non-diverse teams.
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manigandham将近 7 年前
Well said. The fact is that forcing outcomes will never lead to fairness and will instead create misery for all involved.<p>The best plan is to make the process as fair as possible so that everyone has an opportunity if they <i>want</i> it, then let people do what they desire. It may not &quot;look&quot; like what some people want it to look like, but the whole point is that doesn&#x27;t matter anyway.
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toomanybeersies将近 7 年前
What I&#x27;ve always found odd is when a company advertises something like &quot;we have 50% women on the programming team&quot; when only 20% of the programming workforce is female.<p>That&#x27;s not really fair is it? The company is overly diverse if anything. In a way they&#x27;re stealing women from the workforce of other companies.<p>Diversity needs to happen from the ground up. Affirmative action is more effective and more appropriate the earlier in life that it is. Special coding classes and programs for underserved groups (e.g. Rails Girls) are the best, because a lot of girls don&#x27;t get the same opportunities. In New Zealand, a lot of single-sex girls&#x27; schools don&#x27;t teach programming at all. It&#x27;s the same with schools in lower income areas, they often have very underdeveloped STEM programs.<p>Having lower entry requirements to university for less privileged populations also makes sense, although using ethnicity is a very blunt stick, as there are often external factors that mean that equally talented students have worse educational outcomes in school, such as poor nutrition, working a job after school to help pay the bills, and low quality teachers (most good teachers want to teach at good schools). There external factors tend to be ironed out at university.<p>Obviously not every type of affirmative action is appropriate for every situation. Requiring lower grades for women to get into engineering programs at university probably isn&#x27;t appropriate, since it&#x27;s not like women grow up in less privileged households than men.<p>Affirmative action in hiring makes a lot less sense than at earlier stages. There&#x27;s only a certain percentage of women in the workforce, hiring over that percentage isn&#x27;t going to help with diversity or inclusion. If only 20% of programmers are women, then your company&#x27;s programming team should be somewhere around that number. If it&#x27;s a lot higher or a lot lower than this, there&#x27;s something wrong.
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BadassFractal将近 7 年前
Coleman Hughes brought up the point, in a recent interview, that Prop 209 in California was an example of how abolishing affirmative action led to there being <i>more</i> diversity in colleges, a smaller grades gap between ethnicities and many other benefits that affirmative action was meant to accomplish.<p>The argument being that quotas actually don&#x27;t help with diversity because, in the example of high end colleges like MIT, a huge chunk of quota kids end up dropping out, or changing to non-technical majors, or stay in the bottom 10th percentile of their class. They end up feeling terrible, their classmates (who on average will be 300 SAT points above them) end up not taking them seriously, so instead of this being a positive experience for everybody, it just creates more resentment on both sides.<p>I suppose many people believe that throwing unqualified kids into the meatgrinder is worth it just for the diversity exposure alone, and their sacrifice is for a greater cause.<p>This is not to say that exposing different clusters of society to each other isn&#x27;t beneficial to overall social cohesion and acceptance. Doing it through quotas, however, doesn&#x27;t seem to have been proven to be an effective way of accomplishing that goal.<p>Race is an awfully blunt way of looking at these societal clusters. Mashing all the white people together makes no sense. The Italians, the Polish, the Irish were discriminated against heavily early in the century. Russian-Americans make 30% more on average than French-Americans. West Indian blacks make 50% more on average than American blacks. Africans who move to the states for work are about as successful as Asians or Whites, despite supposed heavy racial discrimination. Race includes none of that nuance in it.
zaarn将近 7 年前
Here is my take on it.<p>I agree quotas suck. A lot. When people explain why we need them, they fall back to &quot;it&#x27;s morally good&quot; because the other choice is &quot;monoculture&quot; or &quot;racism&quot; which is &quot;bad&quot; or &quot;evil&quot; depending on who you ask. My problem with that is that I don&#x27;t accept purely moral arguments, these are usually subjective and depend on someone&#x27;s culture. Additionally they easily lead to tribalization where people form two camps over a problem and neither side is willing to compromise because their tribe is good and the other is evil&#x2F;bad.<p>A diversity of thought seems intuitively to be more effective at solving &quot;programmer didn&#x27;t think of X because they&#x27;re not in group Y&quot; problems. Diversity by skin color or gender... not so much. Atleast, it doesn&#x27;t seem to be a good solution for the above problem and when it is, only for a very very narrow range of problems. It obviously doesn&#x27;t mean you shouldn&#x27;t hire women or people with other skin colors or ethnicity. But also that you shouldn&#x27;t hire them primarly.<p>Hiring 50&#x2F;50 male&#x2F;female workers doesn&#x27;t solve your ignorance of deaf or blind users of your software. Or people who lost limbs or are otherwise inhibited in movement (just look at Microsoft, their new controller is an amazing statement for diversity).<p>A purely blind hiring process would solve some of this. Additionally the hiring process would also have to find people that challenge the status quo at the work place, atleast in the relevant matters.<p>Writing an app in React? Hire someone who is good at Angular and React but advocates Angular. You&#x27;ll be hearing about problems in your App you haven&#x27;t thought about. Make this person satisfied with your App.<p>Creating &quot;Uber but for X&quot;? Hire people who do X and who use X and don&#x27;t want X disrupted by &quot;Uber but for X&quot;. They&#x27;ll tell you all about what&#x27;s wrong with the implementation. Make them satisfied.<p>A diverse group of people is a group that when asked about a problem will find at least as many solutions as people in the group.<p>Ask your team &quot;what would the ideal calculator look like&quot; and see what they come up with. They can make it phyiscal or software, any arrangement or features they like. But each should have their own unique calculator.<p>I would say this is a good start point for further thought and discussion on this, though obviously I&#x27;m reducing the complexity of such a wide, subjective and deep rooted problem.
rdtsc将近 7 年前
Agree with the author. I think a lot of clarity can be gained by answering the question they posed:<p>&gt; I think it’s important to ask ourselves what we want to accomplish with diversity quotas in the first place.<p>Like the article says, maybe the company has found that hiring diverse candidates leads to more profits and they are seeking them out and letting the rest fall into place, i.e. they get higher salaries, better compensation packages... It would be no different than figuring out graduates from Stanford&#x27;s such and such department end up doing particularly well in the company.<p>Or maybe the company does want to right a wrong and want to not just improve its bottom line but also help marginalized groups who have been neglected, abused and pushed out in the past. Companies the size of Google, Amazon, Facebook and others can certainly, and maybe should take that position. They can influence the technology field and their policies can affect a huge number of people. But I think they shouldn&#x27;t be shy about declaring their mission, and should be more bold, as opposed to trying to hide behind the former reason. It is this hiding that leads to controversy and conflict.<p>Also in case of this article, the title could have been a bit less controversial too. It should have been something like &quot;Diversity Quota Needs To be Explained&quot;.
eadmund将近 7 年前
&gt; I think it’s important to ask ourselves what we want to accomplish with diversity quotas in the first place. Are we trying to level the playing field for marginalized groups? To bring in the requisite diversity of thought that correlates so strongly with a better bottom line? Or to improve our optics so that when the press writes about our company’s diversity numbers, we look good?<p>Honestly, I believe it&#x27;s the last reason. Levelling the playing field would be relatively easy: blind auditions (easy in some fields, like music, more difficult in ours — but doable). I&#x27;m really not convinced that diversity of thought has all the benefits we attribute to it. At the end of the day, I think it&#x27;s fashion: we want to be seen as fashionable, and diversity is in fashion.<p>Regarding diversity of thought, her example is a great one: &#x27;And look, if you put a gun to my head and asked me, given absolutely identical abilities to do the job, whether I should hire a woman who came from an affluent background, aced her SATs because of access to a stellar prep program and supportive parents, went to a top school and interned at a top tech company over a man who dropped out of high school and worked a bunch of odd-jobs and taught himself to code and had the grit to end up with the requisite skills… I’ll take the man.&#x27; I&#x27;d take the woman, not because she&#x27;s a woman, but because she almost certainly has more of the requisite skills than the man in the situation. If they actually have <i>identical</i> relevant skills, then maybe he&#x27;d be more interesting, just because he&#x27;s so unusual, but judging by appearances the woman is more likely to have the skills I&#x27;d need.
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Leary将近 7 年前
American Companies and universities will rarely admit they are using quotas. Rather, diversity initiatives boost the probability of hire for certain demographics. This may help correct existing prejudice and discrimination, but it is also unfair to the other demographics. Hopefully companies will consider other avenues to increase their diversity rather than having differing hiring standards.
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freedomben将近 7 年前
Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don&#x27;t think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic.<p>&gt; <i>So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily)</i><p>Diversity of thought is a dangerous term in this current culture of witch hunts and personal destruction: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;10&#x2F;13&#x2F;apple-diversity-head-denise-young-smith-apologizes-for-controversial-choice-of-words-at-summit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;10&#x2F;13&#x2F;apple-diversity-head-denis...</a>
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skookumchuck将近 7 年前
&gt; optics<p>That word meaning &quot;appearances&quot; suddenly appeared and became all the rage a year ago. Writers and commentators think they&#x27;re hip and cool using it, rather than what it actually is - camp-following and boring.<p>Blech. Just use &quot;appearances&quot;.
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d--b将近 7 年前
Quotas are tough for people right now, but they serve a longer term role. Because of quotas, there is more diversity in tech. That&#x27;s a fact.<p>Some dumb-ass dudes may tell you: &quot;oh you&#x27;re here because of diversity quotas, not for your inherent quality&quot;, and it will be annoying for you. But the purpose of the quotas is that the next generation of students can look at the distribution and tell themselves: &quot;oh, actually this field is not only populated by bros, there is a lot of women in it, maybe I&#x27;ll give that a shot&quot;.<p>Ok, it&#x27;s not meritocracy, but come on, meritocracy is only unbiased if the culture is unbiased...
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