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Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

287 点作者 gf-nl将近 7 年前

21 条评论

LarryL将近 7 年前
The title of the article is misleading, it&#x27;s not programming that is the real issue, it&#x27;s billing (the progamming issues are just a part in the article).<p>Since the Credit Card companies &amp; banks create lots of problems as soon as sex is involved (see FetLife&#x27;s misadventures in HN previous articles for instance) in addition to the big chargebacks issue, and given that customers lie a lot (because they can), I think that the best solution for pornsites would be something similar to prepaid cards used for Google Play, consoles networks and the like.<p>You buy a card, this puts a limited amount on your &quot;PornPlayButDontSayItIsForThat&quot; account, it&#x27;s easy to control, anonymous, limits risks even if the account is compromised or the porn site dodgy (hidden automatic renevals &amp; the like) since at most you&#x27;d lose that limited amount, then you can buy porn without the issue of the SO (a big problem it seems) and without any banks (or whatever) knowing about your -still badly perceived- habits.<p>In fact, I&#x27;m surprised such a system (not specific to a porn site&#x2F;network) is not already widely available. Of course, it would not present itself as &quot;the Porn Prepaid Card&quot; because of the stigma... Note that some sites&#x2F;networks accept gift cards already (I&#x27;ve checked), but it&#x27;s not very practical (not fine grained, you must use the whole card) and they don&#x27;t accept ALL cards, what do you do when you&#x27;re living in France and they only accept American gift cards? You can also buy &quot;tokens&quot; in many sites (especially Webcams) but they still require a CC, so the problem is not solved. A more general &quot;ePurse&quot; system would be better.<p>This is much more realistic -IMO- than using Bitcoins or the like (too difficult to use and too volatile).<p>Of course, to REALLY solve the problem you&#x27;d &quot;only&quot; need people to stop seeing sex (and porn) as bad, dirty, taboo, etc. But this won&#x27;t happen anytime soon :-(((
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oliwarner将近 7 年前
<i>We&#x27;re</i> what&#x27;s broken. Our prudish approach to adult entertainment.<p>&quot;Joe&quot; would have a happier life if he and his wife were open about how much money they were each spending on porn. They might learn something about each other. Hiding it in layers of shell billing companies isn&#x27;t just ridiculous at the technical level described here, <i>it&#x27;s unhealthy</i>.<p>Also needs to be noted that —as others have said— card processing companies need to get the hell out of the way and just deal with money at a <i>fair</i> risk level. Adult entertainment <i>is</i> higher risk than a card-present or delivered transaction, but absolutely no worse than your Netflix subscription. Considerably less risky than the in-app junk that Adyen happily underwrites (&quot;My toddler bought this without my permission, waaa&quot;).
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marikio将近 7 年前
There are a few companies&#x2F;orgs trying to solve these issues:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spankchain.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spankchain.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.iliac.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.iliac.io&#x2F;</a><p>But porn doesn&#x27;t have high margins. No one (except the large distributors like Mindgeek - Pornhub, Redtube, YouPorn) is making much money. Especially these small sites that are being built. After you subtract legal, production, performer fees you&#x27;re left with almost nothing.<p>I worked in the Adult Industry for several years, but building tech for the industry wasn&#x27;t financially stable for me so I had to leave. Still really passionate about the sex worker community though. Porn performers&#x2F;activists are the kindest, sweetest, most intelligent group of folks I&#x27;ve ever worked with.<p>Maybe we can start a small group of engineers who want to discuss working through some solutions together. My email is hello@marik.io if anyone is interested.
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Miltnoid将近 7 年前
Mirror: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20180809104802&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dev.to&#x2F;jwoertink&#x2F;programming-in-the-adult-entertainment-industry-is-broken-hgn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20180809104802&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dev.to&#x2F;jw...</a>
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akanet将近 7 年前
This article is extremely alarming. The process the author is calling &quot;cascade billing&quot; is money laundering. This exact process of disguising the nature of transactions to get banking institutions to transfer funds is literally what the feds took down Backpage for recently. I am very familiar with the details of that case and am surprised to see someone be so cavalier with the details publicly.<p>Many adult services providers are burning through hundreds of merchant accounts, getting them closed&#x2F;actioned, and repeating as long as they aren&#x27;t prosecuted. The moment they have to deal with any criminal prosecution, however, there are going to be a lot of problems now that the feds have learned to prosecute this as money laundering.<p>EDIT: Holy shit, the author cops to being an accomplice to wire fraud in the comments: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;S5UWBZZ.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;S5UWBZZ.jpg</a>. He needs to take this post down immediately. This is why programmers need to learn about the world before they do things to it.
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latchkey将近 7 年前
As someone who spent 4 years working for Kink.com (NSFW) building and running their entire IT infrastructure, this guy brings up some valid points. We had to build some extremely complicated systems to handle payments, performance, security, etc. It was a really fun learning experience. We used top of the line equipment. We got lessons in scaling. Even came up with creative ways to tell people where I worked... &#x27;Educational video company&#x27;.
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saurik将近 7 年前
&gt; Speaking of fees... Stripe charges 2.9% + .30 cents per transaction. Some of the billers in the porn industry charge up to 30% per transaction. Yup, 30% (not cents; percent) PER CHARGE. So if we charge someone $1.00 for a 1 day trial, the biller gets 30 cents off the top.<p>This was a really bad example, as Stripe actually charges more than 30 cents for a $1 charge ;P. More reasonable companies (including PayPal) give you better rates for small receipts; PayPal offers 5%+$0.05 as a &quot;micropayment rate&quot;. But yeah: with a better example, this is still clearly a point ;P.
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PunchTornado将近 7 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why these companies don&#x27;t have normal names and then nobody will suspect anything.<p>Like the video chat company that I worked for was called Telecom. Their website said nothing about this, all general words about what a good company they are with happy employees and nothing specific. Put it on my CV with no issues.<p>Then they have an affiliate website where everything was happening. All charges were direct through this Telecom company. If someone asked about the billing they probably answered something about a phone, extra charges etc.
segmondy将近 7 年前
As someone in the payment industry, find a processor&#x2F;payfac that specializes in this. They handle all that complexity, they will have multiple processors&#x2F;banks in the backend to find out who will accept the card. Your frustration is due to lack of who to use, all the pros use such processors. It&#x27;s pretty much transparent, they also have massive fraud systems, and since they process for tons of sites, if they notice a card doing fraud&#x2F;multiple chargebacks across different sites, they put a stop to it quickly.
crtasm将近 7 年前
Post has been deleted.<p>&gt; To those of you spreading the &quot;you&#x27;re admitting to fraud&quot; comments, you&#x27;re the reason we can&#x27;t have nice things.<p>I fail to see how this forced you to remove the post.
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karmakaze将近 7 年前
I wasn&#x27;t sure about the heading and was hoping this was about general content for adults being broken. I dont think I&#x27;m getting smarter faster but the content is going down fast. That&#x27;s what&#x27;s great here expect one thing, learn another.
Rjevski将近 7 年前
Seems like cryptocurrencies would be the way to go for this.
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norswap将近 7 年前
Since the article has been censored&#x2F;retracted now, here&#x27;s the wayback link:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20180809104802&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dev.to&#x2F;jwoertink&#x2F;programming-in-the-adult-entertainment-industry-is-broken-hgn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20180809104802&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dev.to&#x2F;jw...</a>
bsder将近 7 年前
This is such a shame because the porn industry used to be at the forefront of technological innovation.<p>Quite often, the AVN Expo had <i>better</i> actual technical content than CES (which was held at the same time).<p>The porn industry was the first to adopt videodiscs, VHS, DVD, handheld cameras, the web, online payments, etc. Basically, if any new technology was useful for porn, it was going to catch on.
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pjc50将近 7 年前
The big &quot;legit&quot; payment provider is cc-bill.<p>The &quot;tube&quot; sites are more exploitative than the rest of the industry in that they don&#x27;t actually pay the performers, they&#x27;re simply piracy, and because small independent producers don&#x27;t have the political leverage to impose an equivalent of content-ID on them they stay that way.
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AngeloAnolin将近 7 年前
Update: I found an archived link [2] as I scrolled further below.<p>I may have missed the boat as this is what can be seen on the original post:<p>&quot;I&#x27;ve deleted the post because some of you are [insert expletive]. The client I do work for is not doing anything illegal. There&#x27;s no money laundering going on. It&#x27;s a more legit business than some big-chain stores I shop at.&quot;<p>Anybody care to provide a gist of what was originally posted? Tried cached version [1] but contents are still the same.<p>[1 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:qqZZR3ggRv0J:https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dev.to&#x2F;jwoertink&#x2F;programming-in-the-adult-entertainment-industry-is-broken-hgn+&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=ca" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:qqZZR3...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;mP6Ky" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;mP6Ky</a>
vesak将近 7 年前
Something like Stellar should have a great market here, and in the legal cannabis market as well (check out the first commenter on OP&#x27;s link). Every new innovation in the websphere starts from porn, so why not cryptocurrencies as well.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stellar.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stellar.org&#x2F;</a>
philip1209将近 7 年前
Some questions:<p>- Would ACH solve an issue like this? There are some clean interfaces (e.g. Plaid), and chargebacks are not trivial.<p>- Would 3-D secure solve the chargeback problem? As I understand it, it shifts liability to the consumer, not the business.<p>- Is blockchain being adopted anywhere for micropayments like this?
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gonzo41将近 7 年前
Two thoughts about all this pop up. You&#x27;d think porn companies would charge with sensible names? And I&#x27;m surprised Stripe wouldn&#x27;t build an off brand company to handle this part of the market. Seems like it&#x27;s just giving up on a lot of money for &#x27;reasons&#x27;<p>Though similar problems exist in business for things like weed companies. Banks don&#x27;t want to touch em.
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asimpletune将近 7 年前
Do developers make more or less working in adult entertainment?
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cartercole将近 7 年前
It looks liek this entire article has been deleted after he changed the post content