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The Story of Why I Left Riot Games

225 点作者 jlward4th超过 6 年前

26 条评论

anonymousturtle超过 6 年前
I work in sales, not gaming. Maybe there is harassment at Riot Games, however sayings like &quot;no doesn&#x27;t necessarily mean no&quot; is part of a sales mindset. It is not condoning rape, it is saying that just because the customer says no doesn&#x27;t mean you should give up. Sales takes some persistence to see if you can get them to say yes. I imagine that is what the recruiter was saying, that just because a candidate says no, does not mean you should take it and give up.<p>That does not mean you should &quot;rape&quot; them, which in this analogy would either be forcing them to buy from you, or forcing them to work for you, without consent. That is obviously not going to happen.<p>It just means that you need to keep trying to get to yes, because you&#x27;re going to hear no a lot, and some of those nos will later become yeses.<p>Just because you interpreted that saying as being related to rape doesn&#x27;t make it a bad saying. It likely just means you&#x27;re unfamiliar with sales, and reading something else into it. If you do a search for: no doesn&#x27;t mean no, you will find a ton of sales material on it. For example off the top of a search:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=gtyq6Lyt5Vc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=gtyq6Lyt5Vc</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Doesnt-Always-Mean-Influencing-Cooperation&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0615515231" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Doesnt-Always-Mean-Influencing-Cooper...</a>
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DataJunkie超过 6 年前
This is a bit more general...<p>I worked there for a very short time as a consultant and I remember Barry. I remember being astonished at some of the things I saw and heard at that company and I am surprised it&#x27;s not them getting the scrutiny and instead the larger tech companies.<p>Working at Riot Games was like working in a frat house where you get paid, and I mean many of the bad parts of living in a frat house. Of the places I&#x27;ve worked, Riot had to have the lowest median age (early 20s), which probably contributes to the problem. The guys could be assholes, but I fear that some of the women, being young and this being their first job and an amazing opportunity, get disillusioned into thinking that this behavior is normal in industry and that is really sad.<p>I am surprised not more have spoken out. Riot (and other gaming companies, not just Riot) has some of the bro-est culture out there and it&#x27;s going to cost them in a lawsuit, just give it time.
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lucidone超过 6 年前
It is imperative more members of tech organizations consciously decide to act in ways that are respectful, inclusive and professional, such that environments like the one described are no longer the norm.<p>Any leadership rejecting this is indicative of their inability to grow up and be adults. We aren&#x27;t in high school anymore.
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rndmize超过 6 年前
&gt; So, when people would say things to the group like “the other team raped us because our mid kept jungling,” I would attempt to reflect back more appropriate language by saying back to them “so you’re saying your team lost because you weren’t working together.”<p>I&#x27;ve noticed this in my gaming group and in the gaming culture at large. There&#x27;s been this integration of much more sexual terms in the last three or four years - &quot;raped&quot;, &quot;cucked&quot;, &quot;my butthole&quot;, &quot;gaping&quot;, &quot;shoved down the throat&quot;, etc. I feel like 10 years ago the words&#x2F;phrases were less offensive - &quot;destroyed&quot;, &quot;wrecked&quot;, &quot;owned&quot;, &quot;dumpstered&quot;, &quot;get shit on&quot;, etc.<p>I&#x27;m not really sure why this is, but I&#x27;m not a fan of the change. It feels like in the last half a decade stuff that used to be limited to the uglier parts of the web has bled out across a much greater area and become more accepted.
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klagermkii超过 6 年前
While I&#x27;m not going to condone those kinds of comments in the workforce or elsewhere, I&#x27;m not quite sure what the general justification is for putting &quot;rape analogies&quot; on such a pedestal compared to other major crimes.<p>Murder - &quot;That went so badly, we just got slaughtered in that meeting&quot;<p>Rape - &quot;If we aren&#x27;t careful the competition&#x27;s going to rape us&quot;<p>Theft - &quot;We need to put in a plan to steal their customers ASAP&quot;<p>What throws me is all of those are Big Bad Things, especially murder, but I don&#x27;t feel like there would be anywhere nearly the same kind of pushback to anything except making a rape analogy. Maybe a slavery analogy would do it as well? People have gone through terrible experiences where someone they love has been murdered etc, so I&#x27;m not sure it&#x27;s just about the level of trauma it can induce.
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robinduckett超过 6 年前
I applied for a job at Riot Games a few years back, after I came out of hospital following my appendix bursting. I was still in pretty bad shape, and my initial phone interview went poorly, mostly due to the fact that I couldn&#x27;t breathe properly as a result of a partially collapsed lung. The hiring guy was particularly pushy, and didn&#x27;t really take no for an answer, encouraging me to take the phone interview anyway. That&#x27;s when I decided not to bother. Probably blacklisted from ever working there in future, but having read this article, I know I definitely won&#x27;t be wanting to anyway.
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poisonarena超过 6 年前
&quot;So, when people would say things to the group like “the other team raped us because our mid kept jungling,” I would attempt to reflect back more appropriate language by saying back to them “so you’re saying your team lost because you weren’t working together.” I can’t say that I think it had much impact, but I figured this was the long game, and slow and steady would win the race. Cultural change requires perseverance and consistency over a prolonged period of time, right?&quot;<p>As a Colombian guy, all these fuss over using certain words is really a problem when there are no other problems to be solved.. When you are are lucky to go to nice school, get paid lots of money, and work at a job in a really fun environment, and really, compared to our standards a perfect life, when you don&#x27;t have problems, you create them.. If I tried to explain the type of problems this guy is having working at Riot Games to my friends or colleagues they would think it is absolutely ridiculous. Why would he work there if he was not expecting that? I have played LoL and this is how people being friendly talk to eachother, its not about hating women or something..<p>I wish I had problems like that.. You can&#x27;t understand how hard it is for me to comprehend leaving a place of work that seems like heaven because some small language offends you..
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ahansen超过 6 年前
&quot;The head of Communications said that we were edgy, and that if we as Riot started chipping away those edges, we would become shapeless and bland, like EA or Blizzard. I responded that if we told everyone starting today there could be no more rape jokes in presentations and talks, it would still be a multi-year effort for us to no longer be edgy.”<p>By the sounds of it Riot is in a very deep culture hole. I hope they can turn it around in the years to come.
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orf超过 6 年前
Thanks for the interesting read.<p>Clearly there was a culture clash and that can take a terrible toll on a person - if you&#x27;ve invested a lot into a company should you adapt to them, even if it&#x27;s against what you believe is right? At what point does the compensation or sunk costs make adapting easier? I&#x27;m sure that&#x27;s more common (and not always related to toxicity) than people think.<p>The <i>head of the company</i> made an incredibly poor play on words by mocking a popular anti-rape slogan, by anyone&#x27;s judgement. Sure, it&#x27;s perhaps a sales slogan, but context matters. And by this account it&#x27;s pretty clear what he was doing and what he was saying. That being said, this is the only account I&#x27;ve read and there is always another side to the story. But it takes a lot of guts to stand up for what you believe in and the author clearly believed Mark crossed his line. Right or wrong, bravo for not being swallowed up.
rboyd超过 6 年前
the whole thing sounds crazy but I&#x27;m genuinely confused why the author didn&#x27;t take a stand at the crazy offensive statements that were shared earlier in the article. is it because the female colleagues took issue?<p>if someone at my place of work used some of the language about my wife, etc, I would be trying to get it on audio and have that person terminated.
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axilmar超过 6 年前
Respect to one&#x27;s employees should be total. There shouldn&#x27;t be respect up to what the majority finds respectful.<p>That the CEO of Riot Games chose to make such an inappropriate remark in a meeting with his employees says that he an immature person.<p>The author could only win though only by consesus: if enough people came out to complain, then he would have a legit case.<p>We should have in mind that the employees of Riot might like such an environment, and therefore whoever doesn&#x27;t like it simply doesn&#x27;t belong there.
Sumaso超过 6 年前
I wonder if the culture has changed since riot did its whole &quot;People who are toxic in game are toxic in the workplace&quot; and axed 25% of its OG staff.<p>Edit: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;rework.withgoogle.com&#x2F;case-studies&#x2F;riot-games-assessing-toxicity&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;rework.withgoogle.com&#x2F;case-studies&#x2F;riot-games-assess...</a>
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koonsolo超过 6 年前
It doesn&#x27;t surprise me that this comes straight from the top leadership.<p>I worked in varies companies (maybe too many). But there was 1 things that was always clear: the company culture always reflects the top leadership.<p>I also once wanted to change something within a company, and had the support of various other managers. We were all pushing hard for the best of the entire company. But then I learned something: you can&#x27;t change the top management, and you can&#x27;t change the top managements opinion. Either accept it, or move on. All of us moved on to other jobs, and the company went bust a few years later.<p>When I read the recent stories about Riot Games, I knew it was trickled down from top management. It always is. They define the company culture more than you would imagine.
Apocryphon超过 6 年前
Does anyone have a good reason for why workers in the video game industry should <i>not</i> be unionized? Because if Susan Fowler and wage-fixing don&#x27;t convince you that the tech industry as a whole shouldn&#x27;t have labor unions, what about all of these horror stories coming out of games?
washadjeffmad超过 6 年前
&quot;On a personal level, I feel very alone and &quot;unsafe&quot; at work, having to watch what I say around whom and always be filtering what I say based on how it might be misinterpreted or misused.&quot;<p>An interesting quote by the author, referring to himself. His tale went the long way around to being in total understanding with his former colleagues and employers, except he still seems to be viewing himself in a somewhat special, if not superior, light.<p>He 1) gave his colleagues examples of how he thought their behavior should be, 2) gave them every opportunity to change their behavior to what he expected, 3) challenged them on what their standards of humor were, 4) brought in others on his concerns to witness them, 5) had a fear of potential liability or reprisal over something he felt could not be compromised on, 6) decided that he wasn&#x27;t a good culture fit.<p>I don&#x27;t know that the irony ever struck him along the way. And I wonder, did he start out wanting to be martyred, or was it a decision he made somewhere further down the line?
laretluval超过 6 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;incerto&#x2F;the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;incerto&#x2F;the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...</a>
chillidoor超过 6 年前
&gt;Approximately 160 people, all the hiring managers at Riot at the time<p>Just how big was Riot Games that they need 160 hiring managers? The only big game they made was League of Legends, right?
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cafard超过 6 年前
Geezer here: can somebody explain to me the offensiveness of the iceberg tee shirt?
bsaul超过 6 年前
I wonder if people advocating for extreme sensitivy on sexual jokes at the workplace also ban rap music at the workplace because of the lyrics.
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subjectsigma超过 6 年前
I am confused as to why this specific issue has to be so slathered in a gross layer of politics and &#x27;progressive&#x27; thinking.<p>Tons of people in the thread (as usual) are discussing it as a left vs right, men vs women, libertarian vs authoritarian, young vs old, etc. kind of issue. Why the fuck can&#x27;t we all just agree that what they said was inappropriate and warranted professional consequences? Everyone deserves basic human decency and a professional attitude in their workplace, regardless of demographic, and thus it is silly to have the first sentence of your complaint be &quot;As a white man...&quot; or &quot;As a woman...&quot; To do so is to constantly compare the value of someone&#x27;s experience over other experiences, when the answer is too obvious for this to be necessary.<p>If you were talking about society or public policy it would make more sense I suppose, but this is not a society, it&#x27;s a game company with a terrible culture. I think part of it might be that HNers (myself included, to be honest) like to hear themselves talk and have a lot to say that some of these comments come about.
darepublic超过 6 年前
&gt; There was more talk about culture and some people being too sensitive. The head of Legal spoke up again, saying that it wasn’t that hearing guys say the stupid stuff they did all day made her sad or upset, it just made her want to punch them in the throat because she was sick of having to hear it all the time. I really liked that part.<p>^ Isn&#x27;t it hypocritical to crusade against certain types of insensitive speech and yet enjoy casual references to violence against males?
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randrews超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve never played anything by Riot Games, but based on this article, I think I&#x27;m going to start.
cal5k超过 6 年前
I&#x27;d like to ask a provocative question: if this was always the culture at Riot, why are people who joined the company surprised by it? Would it be wrong for people to self-select into a workplace that was tolerant of such jokes, knowing that it would not be totally inclusive?<p>At some point if you have enough employees leadership needs to grow the hell up - but it doesn&#x27;t exactly surprise me to learn that game developers use language at work that anyone with gamer friends has certainly heard in private.
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Viker超过 6 年前
Please teach your children that perseverance, trying hard, again and again. Does not pay off. And should be looked down apon.<p>Teach them that when they face resistance they should just say ok and walk away in the other way, because it is not for them.<p>Teach them to be compliant and subservient.<p>Teach them that weakness of character and self respect are not for them.
andrewmcwatters超过 6 年前
It&#x27;s clear to me that there are two distinct camps in scenarios like this:<p>There&#x27;s one camp (camp A) whose cultural norms contain offensive practices to those outside of the culture, and another camp (camp B) who perceives those norms at face value, without context and <i>intent</i>, for their offense. Another poster here used <i>The F Word (South Park)</i> as a great example of this.<p>&gt; This behavior of male-on-male aggression seemed to be a mechanism of asserting control.<p>I don&#x27;t know where Barry gets this, and it&#x27;s written like a National Geographic-esque piece of a man trying to understand the actions and intents of animals in the Serengeti. He doesn&#x27;t &quot;get&quot; them, cannot establish trust, and as a result can&#x27;t influence anyone in this piece&#x27;s mind about how these actions are perceived by others outside of camp A.<p>&gt; now I am having to speak to you like an exasperated camp counselor.<p>This is reinforced by statements like this. This isn&#x27;t edifying. This is belittling, and completely ineffective. Barry&#x27;s downfall here is that he believes this is &quot;the long game, and slow and steady would win the race.&quot; He&#x27;s correct, but his execution is fruitless.<p>Instead, what about trying to befriend these people, and then have down to earth dialogues such as, &quot;I&#x27;m not trying to be a buzzkill, but maybe we could tone it down with the rape stuff, my dudes. It&#x27;s kinda not cool.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m sure there are better methods for getting the idea across, but ultimately you change people&#x27;s hearts and minds by appealing to them and winning them over.
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m3mpp超过 6 年前
From virtue signaling to virtue resigning. I wonder what&#x27;s the next step, virtue self-immolation?<p>Let&#x27;s keep giving berth to that kind of sensitivity in the work place and very soon, all the people will be exactly the same, bland, smooth, completely passive people.<p>The creative, the geniuses of this world are always full of spikes, full of defects, against the norm. Well, I guess we will just have to do without them from now on...
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