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Emails while commuting 'should count as work'

232 点作者 onuralp超过 6 年前

25 条评论

PeterStuer超过 6 年前
After declining for nearly one and a half centuries, the time spend per family on salaried employment post WWII has gone up back to around the level it was at the end of the 19th century. While per person average &#x27;working&#x27; hours are down in large parts of what we call the Western world, woman were brought en mass into salaried employment, raising the time on the company clock for a family significantly.<p>The cost-of-living has adapted to this situation, and a dual-salary income is now &#x27;required&#x27; for many.<p>I personally feel that the relative recent introduction of &#x27;work from anywhere&#x27; technology for the knowledge worker class, has indeed lead to yet another expansion of salaried-time, even when no &#x27;salary&#x27; is provided for it.<p>We should also ask ourselves if the stance on &#x27;working-from-home&#x27;, which should be a normal evolution of the technology, hasn&#x27;t been hampered by a standing tradition of externalizing the costs of commuting by companies to employees.<p>Commuting in itself is for many parts an anachronism that lost its grounding with the introduction of personal computers and the internet. It should be seriously questioned why this is allowed to stand, when it comes at great costs to both the employee&#x27;s health as well as the environment.<p>(P.S. Before you go &#x27;but even for knowledge workers nothing beats working together&#x27;, you can be right, but do we need the &#x27;gold-standard&#x27; of collaboration every working day now that the alternatives are for most business activities more than good enough and still getting better with each year?<p>As in many things it is a trade off. Yet often, we see that in those trade-offs were companies are left holding the bill instead of the employee (office furniture and architecture, IT equipment, ...), the balance goes in the direction of &#x27;good-enough&#x27; rather than the &#x27;best-of-the-best&#x27;.)
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stephengillie超过 6 年前
Please don&#x27;t read&#x2F;send email while driving.<p>Use your bus&#x2F;train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don&#x27;t just give that time away to your current employer for free - unless your employer is a charity.<p>Edit: Even if you work for a charity, giving away your time for free may not be a good idea. ;)
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ChuckMcM超过 6 年前
I disagree strongly with this statement in the article:<p><i>&quot;There&#x27;s a real challenge in deciding what constitutes work,&quot; said Dr Jain, from the university&#x27;s Centre for Transport and Society.</i><p>&quot;Work&quot; is anything I would be doing while sitting at my desk in your office building. So if I&#x27;m doing that on a train or in your office they are both &quot;work.&quot; And if my train ride takes 1.5 hours to the office and 1.5 hours home, I&#x27;ll get on the train around 8AM and leave the office at 3:30 to arrive at the other end by 5PM and count that as an 8 hour work day.<p>On the other hand, if I am in my car driving, I don&#x27;t think of it as work until I can actually concentrate on doing work.
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AndrewDucker超过 6 年前
Well, obviously.<p>Doing things which are part of work counts as work is hardly an innovative statement.<p>The question is, how did companies persuade people that they should work for free on the way into the office?
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vesak超过 6 年前
If your employer tracks you by the hour, then <i>of course</i> email while commuting is work. Also thinking about a design while taking a shower in the evening is work. Also waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall asleep because work issues are bothering you is work.<p>Why employers (in the knowledge business at least) track people by the hour is beyond my understanding.
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11eleven超过 6 年前
I feel one of the aspects of this that&#x27;s not covered is:<p>Yes while the employer may not be able to legally force you to handle emails outside of official work hours and doing so counts as working...<p>Depending on your job, if you don&#x27;t check and reply to some time sensitive emails outside of work hours, you might a) become a roadblock on someone else&#x27;s project that&#x27;s due soon b) be late to respond to &quot;emergencies&quot; and this can affect how people perceive your overall effectiveness and performance.<p>Of course, company culture can minimize last minute requests, unrealistic deadlines, etc. to minimize these &quot;emergencies&quot; that need quick replies but many don&#x27;t.
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SketchySeaBeast超过 6 年前
Does this open the door for me billing my evening shower when the design finally clicks in my head?
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cmurf超过 6 年前
&quot;Research is what I&#x27;m doing when I don&#x27;t know what I&#x27;m doing.&quot; Wernher von Braun<p>Of course lawyers bill for research, phone calls, and emails. So do consultants. Why would considering work emails during commuting counting as work be at all a controversial? What&#x27;s the contrary argument?
sxp62000超过 6 年前
If you reply to emails before 9 and after 6, you&#x27;re telling your manager&#x2F;client ... hey! I am at your disposal 24&#x2F;7. By the way, if your boss gave you a &quot;work laptop&quot; you&#x27;re already screwed.
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perlgeek超过 6 年前
We have an electronic time sheet, and I&#x27;ve always added answering emails during commute as work time. Nobody ever complained.<p>Maybe it&#x27;s different in the UK, but I don&#x27;t understand the big deal.
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j45超过 6 年前
The question I often ask clients is, are they busy doing other people&#x27;s work from their mobile emails?<p>Looking at the types of emails we send&#x2F;recieve, a trend seems to emerge, some people ask a lot more question using email, and some emails require us to do a lot more answering.<p>Today&#x27;s email habits are still rooted in the blackberry culture that created it - there was no structure and framework around email use.<p>I still believe mobile emails are more beneficial for the people asking the questions, and not so good for people who have to answer answering the questions, often on their own time to keep up.<p>How does poor planning on someone else&#x27;s part require you to reply instantly, or within the same business day? Very little should be that critical if the organization is truly-proactive.<p>Processing several hundred emails a day used to be a norm on a few recent projects. A few trends emerged to manage sanity:<p>- Poor emailing habits exist. Triaging is incredibly important, on top of GTD. Those 2 minute email replies can really add up, scheduling replies is important.<p>- The more we try to get ahead and email in our off time, the more replies we recieve in a vicious cycle. The more we send emails. Our time will never scale to meet the available time of all the people we simultaneously communicate with.<p>- I try to use mobile email only to read emails and to write as little as possible.<p>- Where I do have to write mobile emails, especially after hours, I consider if I want to be at the top of the person&#x27;s inbox or not, and that&#x27;s probably best achieved by scheduling an email to go out at 7 or 8 AM instead of the night before.<p>- The email scheduling feature in Aquamail is invaluable. I wouldn&#x27;t be able to switch back to iOS without a comparable email client. Boomerang is handy too for automatic follow ups that can be scheduled at the time of sending.<p>- Try to centralize communication as much as possible and check email 1-3 times a day. Email can be followed up on, it isn&#x27;t always the case with Slack. Slack&#x2F;Chats are extremely valuable for realtime input.<p>I&#x27;d love to hear any other tips or strategies folks are using to manage their email flow.
Nasrudith超过 6 年前
Really these sort of metrics are missing the point in my opinion along with &quot;employee engagement&quot; and &quot;focus&quot; tracking. What they should care about is the deliverables and not some puritan pennywise pound foolish get as much toil out per dollar.<p>IT is one classic example with the lazy sysadmin is a good sysadmin. If everything is secure and operational and all desired expansions are either met or properly analysed as not worth it then their slacking off doesn&#x27;t matter.
mattlondon超过 6 年前
I am guilty of triaging emails on the underground train in on the morning.<p>No one seems to have mentioned my perspective: Its not that I feel compelled to do this (far from it), its more that the commute is <i>BORING AS HELL</i>.<p>At least for London, the wifi and network is only available during the 30 seconds you are in a station (i.e. not in the tunnels), so more productive things that need a persistent network connection wont work very well (e.g. Duolingo, netflix etc). You cant even look out of the window since its in a tunnel the whole way! :-)<p>The other alternative to doing emails is reading cached news articles (I actually do this a lot - load up a series of 10-15 articles before getting on the train), or desperately trying to connect to the wifi then load a webpage in the 30 second window you have before you are back in a tunnel.<p>Or you can get paid-for Duolingo or download netflix shows the night before etc. Its all a bit of a faff though really, while your inbox is sitting there full of juicy unread emails from your colleagues in another hemisphere that you&#x27;ll need to read <i>at some point anyway</i> .... too tempting to jump in and start triaging when your alternative is staring at the floor or the blackness outside the windows :)
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zaphar超过 6 年前
I absolutely consider time commuting as part of my work hours. I leave the office early and count the 45 minutes on the train as work time. Whether it&#x27;s answering emails, writing some code, or working on documentation it&#x27;s definitely work.
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mirimir超过 6 年前
As a consultant, I&#x27;ve billed for work, regardless of where I did it. At home. On trains and planes. On the beach. In Internet cafes in Amsterdam. Why not?<p>But on the other hand, I recall being shocked (this was some years ago) when a seriously enterprise-level customer service rep emailed me at midnight. Because, you know, I was billing for reading her message, in 15-minute blocks, but she was paid on a salary basis.
thx4allthestuff超过 6 年前
I’ve largely disconnected from email, both work and personal. I guess one day I just smelled another internal phishing campaign and decided that it would be the last I participated in. After that I informed my bosses that if they needed to reach me then to do so in team chat. The unspoken part of that was, “and if that’s a problem, then fire me, please.”
wayanon超过 6 年前
Was expecting a mention of BMW who were forced to switch off their email servers after working hours I think after a court ruling brought by a union in Germany.
unixhero超过 6 年前
Of course it does. I charge hours in my in transit because I am emailing and interacting with people at work and in my client projects.
deevolution超过 6 年前
If you take into consideration the near future of autonomous cars where people will be capable of working during their commute, which some people have up to 3+ hour commutes - absolutely this should count as working hours. Hopefully it also means less hours in the office.
collyw超过 6 年前
Should surfing the web for a couple of minutes during work hours be deducted then?
browsercoin超过 6 年前
Slack should count as work too while commuting. I&#x27;d prefer emails but now you are de facto on call when you have Slack on your phone.
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Kluny超过 6 年前
I still don&#x27;t understand why half the threads on HN talk about how there&#x27;s not as much work anymore due to automation, and the other half talk about how people are overworked and working longer hours. We can&#x27;t have UBI because that would encourage people to be lazy, but all jobs are bullshit anyway. When are we going to rise up and seize the means of production?
adultSwim超过 6 年前
If engineers had our own unions, we could actually have these discussions with our employers.
adultSwim超过 6 年前
<i>Commuting should count as work</i>
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devmunchies超过 6 年前
Women joining the workforce increased the labor supply which decreased wages on the whole. This makes it so many women HAVE to work as opposed to GET to work. A double income for many families is required nowadays.
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