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Naked Europe covers up

56 点作者 kylebarron超过 6 年前

11 条评论

joshuaheard超过 6 年前
I lived on the French Riviera in the 80s. Nearly all European women were topless at the beach, and in St. Tropez, there was full nudity. I recently visited, and the only topless women were older. None of the youth went topless. Fewer exposed breasts in advertising as well. No idea the cause, probably, instant global media has made them self-consciously realize few countries are that permissive.
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thaumasiotes超过 6 年前
Interesting contrast within the article:<p>&gt; Today, nudists complain, it is more difficult to separate nakedness from sex. French nudists say their movement’s younger members are overwhelmingly men; women are leery of being leered at. “Parts of Cap d’Agde have been completely sexualised,” says Wim Fisscher<p>&gt; If any space is more embarrassing for non-European tourists than a French nude beach, it is a German or Dutch sauna. They are unisex and naked by default. All bodies, thin, fat, young or old, are treated non-judgmentally. The one thing that will earn a disapproving stare is wearing clothing, because such modesty implies an inappropriate level of sexual consciousness.<p>But then:<p>&gt; But the vision of nakedness as a demonstration of freedom and equality seems to be faring less well. Nudity has been central to European culture since the Greeks first sculpted Hermes.<p>Hermes was a great choice for this sentence, but it makes me wonder whether the writer knew that. Representations of Hermes were often naked, or at least displaying genitals, but they certainly weren&#x27;t conceptually separated from sex. A Herm had a large erect penis. There was a statue of ithyphallic Hermes in a famous temple of Demeter, and an accompanying legend saying that he&#x27;d gotten into that state by seeing Persephone.
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belorn超过 6 年前
The change is very noticeable in public bathhouses here in Sweden. It used to be that one day in the week had bath clothes as optional, while now we have instead separate men and women days in order to be more inclusive to cultures where women don&#x27;t feel confident to be in swim clothes in the same building (The official written statement).<p>As the article points out historically nudism used to been a progressive cause where the conservative right was against it, while today those positions has almost switched sides. I have yet to see a Swedish politician that both support nudist and Muslim to choose what clothes they want to use in public spaces, even if occasionally someone slip their tongue and say things like &quot;Neither government or corporation should decide what clothes people should wear&quot;.<p>The smartphone argument that the article brings up sounds wrong. While it could be true for a beach, not many would voluntary bring expensive electronics to a sauna and most bathhouses has now days a ban for it anyway. Relax areas want to keep noise and photoing down, while other areas which allow kids want parents to keep track of their children and reduce the risk of drowning. If smartphones with cameras was a major contributors to this cultural change then we should expect to see a much small impact for saunas and public bathhouses that forbid smartphones, and yet I doubt the data support that.
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coldtea超过 6 年前
&gt;<i>The home continent of public nakedness is growing more body</i><p>Well, prudery is contagious, especially when it emanates from a dominant culture...
thedevil超过 6 年前
Anyone have a plausible hypothesis on what&#x27;s driving the trend?<p>The Economist is claiming &quot;Today, nudists complain, it is more difficult to separate nakedness from sex.&quot; which seems plausible enough, but what would drive the change?
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blattimwind超过 6 年前
&gt; In Germany it was everywhere: the country’s Freikörperkultur (“free body culture”, or FKK) encourages stripping off while gardening, playing sports or taking lunch breaks in the park.<p>This seems rather uninformed to me.
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MrQuincle超过 6 年前
I don&#x27;t think so.<p>In the Netherlands you can still go to sauna as usual. There are plenty of nudist beaches and campings. A few months ago I went to a party in a club where in the end it was encouraged to wear as little as you&#x27;d like. You have still plenty of nude advertisement on television after midnight. You have billboards with nudes. There are TV programs like Adam zoekt Eva (Adam searches for Eve). There are popular clip sites (bit like ridiculous, but without being prude) like dumpert.nl with weakly &quot;vrijmibo&quot; with nudes. Two weeks ago I was in Zierikzee. Mayor was judging nudes with bodypaint. A lot of kids run around naked as well in the backyards when it is hot in summer. No big deal.<p>No, there is no such thing as the North American shame for genitals or being nude.
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sandworm101超过 6 年前
Lol. An article about changing attitudes re nakedness, but no mention of hair or shaving.<p>Young people today shave more than any past generation. Just look at the magazines. So a young person today, unclothed, is that little bit more &quot;naked&quot; today. It makes a difference twofold. Firstly, naked+shaved people are more exposed to everything from eyes to sun. Secondly, young people don&#x27;t want to be naked when they haven&#x27;t shaved. So getting naked is something you have to prepare for in a way past generations did not. A swimsuit is far easier than re-trimming every day.<p>It is probably a bigger thing for guys. Hairy chests are larger than armpits. Hairy backs are ... difficult. T-shirts are more acceptable at the beach than bears.
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antisthenes超过 6 年前
With the obesity rates being what they are in the developed world, I&#x27;m not sure that&#x27;s quite a bad thing.<p>I have a few theories on why more people are covering up, but I&#x27;m going to go the self-censorship route here on HN and avoid stating them to avoid a flame war.
pjc50超过 6 年前
The smartphone has to play a large role in this. You can&#x27;t guarantee that you&#x27;re not going to end up on the internet forever.<p>The politics is also different; nudism is no longer either associated with either progressive liberalisation or the vaguely fascist&#x2F;eugenic parts of the physical fitness culture. It&#x27;s just not an issue any more.
21超过 6 年前
Some part of it (older people versus prudish younger people) was hilariously captured in Gym Wildlife:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;n1GUQVo1Lps?t=235" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;n1GUQVo1Lps?t=235</a>