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Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

77 点作者 monort超过 6 年前

24 条评论

HarryHirsch超过 6 年前
There&#x27;s a documentary on Netflix about physicians setting up shop on a race track to offer treatment to the poor and indigent in Bristol, TN: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;remote-area-medical-shows-what-americas-uninsured-go-through-health-care-287507" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;remote-area-medical-shows-what-amer...</a><p>You wouldn&#x27;t see these scenes in even the most deprived corners of Newcastle-upon-Tyne or the Rhondda Valley. The crowds the event attracts! This is what a developing country looks like.
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lbriner超过 6 年前
I think the sleight of hand here is that &quot;Britain is poorer&quot; reads as &quot;the people of Britain are poorer&quot; even though strictly speaking in GDP terms, Britain the <i>country</i> has a smaller market.<p>GDP is not wages. You can make tonnes of money in a company and none of it ends up as wages (just goes in the bank) so GDP is high but standards based on wages are no different.<p>As an example (I could be wrong - not an economist) but a single company making $1B more in one year would equate to a GDP&#x2F;per capita increase of $10K in a town of 100K.<p>There are loads of places in the USA that looks desperately poor compared to everywhere I have seen in the UK so I can live with the headline as an economists click-bait.
rasengan超过 6 年前
So given this information as well as the UN report on US and the fact that the US is in poverty like conditions [1] I think it’s safe to say everyone is broke.<p>This post from reddit on &#x2F;r&#x2F;funny isn’t funny - it is the truth [2]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ohchr.org&#x2F;EN&#x2F;NewsEvents&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ohchr.org&#x2F;EN&#x2F;NewsEvents&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;DisplayNews.aspx?N...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;funny&#x2F;comments&#x2F;9fq5e4&#x2F;the_simpsons_how_times_have_changed&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;funny&#x2F;comments&#x2F;9fq5e4&#x2F;the_simpsons_...</a>
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glup超过 6 年前
Median adult wealth in the UK is almost double the US (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...</a>). This article is somewhere between methodologically lax economics and UKIP drivel.
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NeedMoreTea超过 6 年前
Ahh, Tim Worstall, senior of the Adam Smith Institute and former press officer for UKIP.<p>I can stop at the byline to avoid his unusual approach to economic fact.
greesil超过 6 年前
GDP per capita per hour worked is a better metric to use when comparing countries. Most Western European countries have fewer hours worked per worker, but when they work have the same productivity. I&#x27;m not sure about the gini coefficient, but both of the numbers given seem low. The US&#x27;s was over 0.42 from what I&#x27;ve read in other sources.
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Sharlin超过 6 年前
So what this article primarily shows is that &quot;wealth&quot; (as measured by PPP-corrected median per-capita GDP) isn&#x27;t that relevant a metric for measuring anything except &quot;wealth&quot;. Of course the not-so-subtle implication is that &quot;wealth&quot; is intrinsically &quot;good&quot; and that income redistribution has not achieved &quot;good&quot; (although the final remark in itself is a silly <i>cum hoc ergo propter hoc</i> and in itself reveals the biases of the author).<p>Few people disagree that the median purchasing power in the US is greater than in Europe; the real question is &quot;so what?&quot;
lewisflude超过 6 年前
What this shows me is how misleading comparisons like this can be. I think the UK has been brought into US politics over the last few years, and living in the UK it&#x27;s funny how far from the truth some of the claims made can be. I&#x27;m sure the same goes in reverse though.
donatj超过 6 年前
Most of Europe actually. I was reading a piece I believe CATO put out about this recently.
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mmastrac超过 6 年前
&quot;All that redistribution hasn&#x27;t made the Nordic poor richer than the American poor but it has made the rich poorer.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ll take issue with this - the poor in Nordic countries and Britain have a much stronger social safety net. So maybe a better conclusion is that in Britain they are still as poor as before, but with access to similar health care as the rich (who are slightly less rich to allow for this).
mikeash超过 6 年前
It sure doesn’t seem to be reflected in how people live. Is this just using the wrong measure for “poorer”?
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dtech超过 6 年前
My economic knowledge is lacking, how good of a metrics is PPP?<p>Specifically this jab:<p>&gt; showing that the bottom 10% in the US have the same incomes (yes, PPP adjusted) as the bottom 10% in either Sweden or Finland. &gt; While the top 10% have very much larger incomes than the top 10% in either country. &gt; All that redistribution hasn&#x27;t made the Nordic poor richer than the American poor but it has made the rich poorer.<p>If PPP is a good metric, that would mean there are about the same percentage of people starving and lacking medical care in the US as in Nordic countries. That is incorrect if general media portrayal is correct.
supernova87a超过 6 年前
This story validates what I felt when I lived in the UK several years ago during research. I felt the country had so much money (London) but everyone lived so poor.<p>I was getting paid basically the same numerical value as I had been in the US, but all the prices were in pounds.<p>And the cars were so old, like twice as old as typical cars in the US.<p>I wondered where all their tax money was going -- and I figured to the poor north of the country.<p>Yet people in the UK generally behave so well, and are polite, and are educated and proud. This is really impressive -- the power of social psychology in the face of measureable economic deprivation.
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craig_asp超过 6 年前
He should remove the outliers and study those separately. The gini consideration goes a bit in that direction, but not far enough. Possibly even split the population in 4-5 buckets: from people under the poverty line through to the extremely rich and then compare each of those. Admittedly, this would be way harder but would paint a much better picture.
toasterlovin超过 6 年前
This Wikipedia page may also be of interest. It has two lists: 1) median household income, and 2) median adult income.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Median_income#Gross_median_household_income_by_country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Median_income#Gross_median_hou...</a>
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tomjohnneill超过 6 年前
It&#x27;s a bit weird that the author acknowledges the difference between UK regions and London, promptly ignores that, then continues to adjust the US figures by the different PPP figures by state. It definitely makes the whole thing a lot less apples to apples.<p>Also, the cost of goods and services being cheaper in the US might not be a strictly good thing. If food, clothing and haircuts are only cheaper because businesses are employing people on well below a living wage, or exploiting cheap labour from undocumented immigrants, then it&#x27;s hardly something to celebrate.<p>On that last point: &quot;the bottom 10% in the US have the same incomes (yes, PPP adjusted) as the bottom 10% in either Sweden or Finland. While the top 10% have very much larger incomes than the top 10% in either country. All that redistribution hasn&#x27;t made the Nordic poor richer than the American poor but it has made the rich poorer&quot;. I&#x27;m not sure of the details, but it&#x27;s easy to see how that would be misleading if those income figures don&#x27;t account for government transfers from rich to poor, or nationalised&#x2F;socialised state services in health, transport or education.
_nickwhite超过 6 年前
The question is, will Brexit help or hurt with this? Will Britain be better off than the rest of Europe as a result of leaving the EU, and how long will withdrawal pains last?
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Spooky23超过 6 年前
Not surprising.<p>The whole place is basically a big rust belt. Industry is dead, martitime doesn’t generate a lot of jobs, the US captured tech, and banking produces money but not employment.
vkou超过 6 年前
This article keeps talking about mean GDP.<p>Unless you live in a perfectly communist society, mean GDP is a poor proxy for how wealthy the people in it are.<p>Additionally, if the author wants to adjust for PPP, they should also adjust for cost of healthcare, education, median transportation expenses - all of which are much higher in the US. (All right, median transportation expenses may be higher in the UK. I honestly have no idea.)<p>Also, it&#x27;s worth considering how much GDP in each country is spent on projects that don&#x27;t improve anyone&#x27;s life. If half your GDP is spent on building tanks and submarines and nuclear weapons, while your people want color TVs and washing machines, or a health system that won&#x27;t bankrupt them, it&#x27;s often not the best use of your economic output.
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rileyphone超过 6 年前
What a load of tripe. The sheer level of hand-waving in their calculations makes their bias pretty clear.
pwaivers超过 6 年前
How do other European countries compare?
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patatino超过 6 年前
Off topic: What is this form of title when they add stuff like &quot;Yes, Even Mississippi&quot; which doesn&#x27;t add any value? Is there a term for it?
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dagi3d超过 6 年前
and Brexit hasn&#x27;t arrived yet...
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graeham超过 6 年前
&quot;In the US food is generally cheaper than it is in Europe, medical care generally more expensive.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m not sure when medical care is cheaper in the US. Within the VA system, maybe?<p>Also, the ranking does not stack up against wikipedia figures:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per...</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...</a> (Where PPP is already accounted for, so this guy is doing it twice).<p>UK would come in ~35th. Similar to Nevada or Michigan.
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