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Payday loans are coming for everyone

56 点作者 mckee1超过 6 年前

12 条评论

endorphone超过 6 年前
A bit bizarre reading through the comments on here. It&#x27;s like stepping back in time.<p><i>Many</i> suppliers demand 0 day terms now: You pay with a credit card or wire upfront, often before service or goods are even provided. Certainly for everything under a few thousand dollars, and often even for five digit purchases. Yes, even large companies.<p>Oh, your super big company wants net 60 (or they&#x27;ll threaten net 90)? If that even is offered, the vendor almost certainly adds a time and risk premium to the cost (that &quot;early payment discount&quot; is actually the real price. the net 30&#x2F;60&#x2F;90 prices are heavily penalized).<p>Vendors aren&#x27;t your creditors. <i>Certainly</i> random individual freelancers aren&#x27;t. The notion that you, the customer, start a relationship with a payment company that demands a fee to get paid is absolutely <i>ludicrous</i>. Despite all of the splitting of hairs, it is far closer to a payday loan than it is factoring (FastFunds&#x2F;WorkMark or whatever has their relationship with the publisher, not with the freelancer who just wants his cash, much less at the usurious prices).<p>What a world when even the people of HN are defending these practices.
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maerF0x0超过 6 年前
Upfront, I normally am not for legislation. However one thing that&#x27;s been on my mind lately has been the lag between work and getting paid for that work. Even for regular employees. The days of being paid 1x &#x2F; 2x per month, IMO, stem from when we had to cut a corporate check to pay someone. A check sometimes meant two signatures required. This was massive overhead and thus we wanted to batch them and do them as infrequently as possible.<p>Today payments are easily automated and extremely inexpensive. I see little reason one couldnt be paid at the end of a work day or even more continuously such as per calendar day or what have you (ie there are ~22 work days per month, but ~30 calendar days) ... I could see a good pro labour legislation being to get paid daily for companies with automatic deposit or over size X.<p>Things like payday loans wouldnt make as much sense if you&#x27;ve already been paid 14&#x2F;15ths of your pay up to that point and you&#x27;re going to get the last 1&#x2F;15th within 24 hours.<p>Edit: Something like this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.uber.com&#x2F;info&#x2F;instant-pay&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.uber.com&#x2F;info&#x2F;instant-pay&#x2F;</a> but automated and for everyone.
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ljoshua超过 6 年前
This is factoring, not payday loans. As the author investigates, he finds this out as well.<p>I&#x27;ve done plenty of freelance work and I deeply know the pain of getting paid late, but as others have pointed out, dealing with a larger business results in net 30&#x2F;60&#x2F;90 terms, when things are going well. The fee you pay to the intermediary is justified.<p>Now if the only option to <i>ever</i> get paid was to pay an intermediary a cut of your salary, well then that would be a major issue. But otherwise this is the freelancer paying an intermediary for a) quicker access to funds and b) reducing the (albeit often small) risk of the client not paying.
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stanleydrew超过 6 年前
I have sympathy for people subject to the vagaries of corporate payment settlement terms, but when you agree to net 60 you may not get paid for 60 days. To get paid sooner will cost something.
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AJ007超过 6 年前
Per the article: &quot;Should they not get paid by the client we don’t go after that money.&quot;<p>If the company goes under while you are waiting to be paid, you end up with $0. Someone else is borrowing money, paying you in advance, and eating shit if they collect nothing from it. Not even close to payday lending in analogy..
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edw超过 6 年前
This practice has a very bad look, and my heart is with the freelancers. <i>But</i> I also know human psychology is fickle and there is a functionally identical way to pay freelancers that would generate far less ire:<p>The client quotes the freelancer a due-on-receipt, net-zero-days price and then offers a &quot;no hurry payment&quot; bonus of twenty-five or thirty percent or whatever that comes with net-30&#x2F;60&#x2F;90 terms.<p>If a freelancer doesn&#x27;t ask about payment terms when negotiating payment with a new client, he or she will quickly learn to do so. You don&#x27;t need to experience the sting of learning that your client intends to pay you net-120 more than once before you focus like a laser on payment terms and conditions.<p>When I engage with freelancers or small businesses as vendors, I make a point of making sure the accounting folks know a particular vendor should not be subjected to &quot;cashflow optimization,&quot; which I have known AP folks to elevate to an art, a sport, perhaps even a tenet of a fanatical religion.<p>A couple of related items:<p>Why Variable Pricing Fails at the Vending Machine: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2005&#x2F;06&#x2F;27&#x2F;business&#x2F;why-variable-pricing-fails-at-the-vending-machine.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2005&#x2F;06&#x2F;27&#x2F;business&#x2F;why-variable-pri...</a><p>Coke’s Segmentation Error: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pragmaticpricing.com&#x2F;2010&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;cokes-segmentation-error&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pragmaticpricing.com&#x2F;2010&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;cokes-segmentation-e...</a>
tedunangst超过 6 年前
Isn&#x27;t this normal in B2B (of which freelance is kind of a subset)? Normal terms might be net 60, but if you pay in less than 30, there&#x27;s a discount.
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mywittyname超过 6 年前
I hope users of these systems start a class action lawsuit to recoup their payments and that the industry is regulated such that the client is responsible for the fee. So instead of the author getting $650 on their $700, HuffPo should pay $750 for their $700 invoice.<p>Once that happens, payments will magically be made as quickly as possible. Fast payment processing is a solved problem.
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s_dev超过 6 年前
The biggest payday loan company in the UK, Wonga recently collapsed due to fines from the regulator.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2018&#x2F;aug&#x2F;30&#x2F;wonga-collapses-into-administration" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2018&#x2F;aug&#x2F;30&#x2F;wonga-colla...</a>
madebylaw超过 6 年前
I am the technical co-founder of a company in the earned wage access space (link in bio). Happy to answer any questions. The main takeaways are:<p>- We are paid back by the company on payday so the credit risk is on the company not the consumer.<p>- Many (most?) of our users do not have access to consumer credit and would be classified as underbanked &#x2F; unbanked. This is a great book for more background: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Unbanking-America-Middle-Class-Survives-ebook&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B01912OYO0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Unbanking-America-Middle-Class-Surviv...</a><p>- We charge a fixed fee per transaction, no interest is accrued or carried.<p>- Philosophically, every day you work and are unpaid for it, you are selling your employer an interest-free bond of your labor whose term is payday.
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edawerd超过 6 年前
CTO and co-founder of Gusto here. This has actually been on our mind for many years now, and it&#x27;s a problem we&#x27;ve seen that hurts paycheck to paycheck employees the most. We&#x27;ve recently taken a first step towards rethinking how payroll should be for a modern workforce, and launched a pilot for a new product called Flexible Pay (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gusto.com&#x2F;flexible-pay" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gusto.com&#x2F;flexible-pay</a>).<p>Flexible Pay enables employees to cash out unpaid earned wages, without any changes to how payroll runs. Happy to answer any questions about it. Also, if this is a space you&#x27;re passionate about, we&#x27;re actively hiring engineers for that team!
dwighttk超过 6 年前
That&#x27;s not a payday loan.<p>And &quot;for everyone&quot;? Not really.