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Walmart Requires Lettuce, Spinach Suppliers to Join Blockchain

185 点作者 stablemap超过 6 年前

35 条评论

code4tee超过 6 年前
IBM is quietly brushing its Watson mess under the carpet and now they’re trying to focus on blockchain. However this is just as substanceless and full of marketing fluff as Watson was.<p>There’s nothing being done here that couldn’t or shouldn’t just be handled with a traditional database. Having IBM “run it” also sort of defeats the whole decentralized aspect of blockchain technologies.<p>You don’t need “blockchain” to track where your produce came from. This is just a marketing play through and though.
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x2398dh1超过 6 年前
Since so many comments on this thread are so absolutely negative, I will try to play devil&#x27;s advocate here.<p>Is a given blockchain a more efficient database? Not efficient measured by percent of data stored in any given entry, which of course throughput and any other, &quot;engineering metric,&quot; will suffer because of that. As an engineer, the idea of wasted energy, memory, space, etc., makes one cringe.<p>Efficient from the standpoint of preventing loss of human life or preventing sickness? Well, in the United States where likely most of us live, this is not as big of a problem, but likely in many other countries such as China, &quot;food authenticity,&quot; is a problem. Let&#x27;s keep in mind that Walmart has more stores and customers in China and more problems with food than the United States by orders of magnitude.<p>If I&#x27;m an actor within the food system in China which presumably has multiple middle-men, and I want to move one product up the supply chain through multiple, ultimately ending up on the shelves at Walmart, then I will not want to give away my source, because I want to get preferential pricing. However if I can convince my suppler upstream to use this tool (it doesn&#x27;t matter if it&#x27;s IBM, Google, Alibaba, or some startup or whatever, it&#x27;s just a tech tool), to track and register when food was, &quot;picked&quot; or &quot;harvested&quot; then I don&#x27;t have to give information to my buyer about the source, yet the database is all, &quot;standardized,&quot; in terms of labeling. Keep in mind the alternative would be some kind of bar coding system which perhaps Walmart would have to impose. Well, I don&#x27;t want my upstream partners knowing that this is going to Walmart either, otherwise they will jack up the pricing. If everyone is using some IBM tool, and assuming the IBM tool sees increasing adoption, then no one (hopefully) knows where or who a particular food is going to, yet any problem foods can be tracked back to their source by the end seller, without having to impose multiple types of key-value pair, bar-coding database systems, which - while technically easier to implement and run more smoothly from an engineering standpoint, perhaps do not take the entire use case into mind, because parties within the supply chain may be unwilling to share their source or destination due to pricing incentives.<p>Mind you, I am no food systems expert, I am just trying to talk hypotheticals here. I think the knee-jerk reaction on Hacker News within this thread is an almost Redditian &quot;reaping karma&quot; approach by putting down Blockchain, because many of us have had bad experiences working with corporate executives who have no idea how various types of technology work, and implementing non-technology buzzwords ends up being painful. That being said Blockchain at its heart, stripping away the history, is just a mathematical concept, and it&#x27;s a math tool that can be used to point from one source to another. Calling it a, &quot;mind disease,&quot; is losing sight of that.<p>Typically the types of discussions on hacker news that I enjoy reading are more angled toward how do you reverse engineer things, not just insulting an idea without backing up one&#x27;s insult.
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wyldfire超过 6 年前
Decentralized? No, it&#x27;s &quot;IBM Food Trust&quot;. So how is this any better or different from hosting a database on IBM&#x27;s server? Secured by a PoW? Doubt it.<p>Here&#x27;s the closest I could find to technical info:<p>&gt; IBM Food Trust&#x27;s blockchain solution, on the other hand, is permissioned so invited members know exactly with whom they are transacting, similar to what happens between business partners today. Participants also determine what data is seen by whom, thereby providing information on a need-to-know basis. Smart contracts also run on our blockchain, allowing business logic to help solve disputes, automatically execute contracts, and build trust.
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schiffern超过 6 年前
Make no mistake -- this is nothing but a minimally-cloaked attack on federal food safety regulations. The word &quot;blockchain&quot; is only a distraction &#x2F; misdirection.<p>FTA:<p>&gt; Tests... have produced a more complete view of the food system than under current federal regulations, according to Nestlé SA, Dole Food Co., and other participants in the project. [&quot;more complete&quot; != &quot;more accurate&#x2F;accountable&quot;]<p>&gt; <i>As investigators worked</i> , 210 people got sick and five died, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [implying blame lies with the <i>regulatory body</i>, not the industry]<p>&gt; A directive for suppliers to use the Food Trust blockchain will help the industry create a more complete picture of the food system than is possible under current federal regulations, Mr. Yiannas said in an interview. [<i>yet again</i> federal regs are mentioned]<p>&gt; “Today, the requirement for traceability by law is one step up and one step back. That doesn’t work any more,” he said. [really obvious here!]<p>&gt; Early this year, <i>as investigators worked</i> to understand an outbreak of E. coli linked to romaine lettuce grown in the region of Yuma, Ariz., 210 people in 36 states got sick. Five people died, according to the Centers for Disease Control. [ditto blame shifting]<p>&gt; Blockchain establishes authorship or ownership that experts say can’t be faked and eliminates costly middle layers because of its peer-to-peer structure. [if it <i>can&#x27;t be faked</i>, obviously there&#x27;s no need for regulators! Garbage in, perfection out! ::eyeroll::]<p>It&#x27;s like claiming that ledgers written in pen make the SEC obsolete.
absurdum超过 6 年前
Unnecessary rubbish. The article even mentions that larger growers already have a similar(one can assume non-blockchain) system in place. This is the product of excited executives listening to buzzwords and the always shameless IBM ready to play along.
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peterwwillis超过 6 年前
Alternate solution: do not announce small foodbourne illness outbreaks.<p>In the article&#x27;s example, 250 people got sick from a lettuce outbreak, and everyone stopped buying lettuce, hitting the whole industry. But <i>5 million people</i> get sick from Norovirus alone in the US every year.<p>Leafy vegetables like lettuce are the most common source of food illness. Telling people about a minor outbreak is just letting them freak out for no good reason. We should be educating people better about foodbourne illness so they can respond without freaking out, and so they don&#x27;t get sick so damn much. And the media should stop freaking people out.<p>250 people out of 350 million getting sick, and not even dying? It&#x27;s a <i>minor risk!</i> 35,000 die in traffic every year, and these people are freaked out by some lettuce. Take a fuckin chance, would ya please? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;X29lF43mUlo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;X29lF43mUlo</a>
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Ua2Reemo超过 6 年前
What does a blockchain offer in this case that submitting a line to some sort of B2B logging API where the logs are made public (like certificate transparency) doesn&#x27;t?
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theamk超过 6 年前
I think it is important to remember this is not any blockchain, it is IBM Blockchain For Business. I found a great overview page:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibm.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;blockchain&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;the-difference-between-bitcoin-and-blockchain-for-business&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibm.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;blockchain&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;the-difference-...</a><p>&gt; Consensus in a blockchain for business is not achieved through mining but through a process called “selective endorsement.” It is about being able to control exactly who verifies transactions, much in the same way that business happens today. [...] This is different from Bitcoin, where the whole network has to work to verify transactions.<p>&gt; Bitcoin thrives due to anonymity. [...] On the other hand, businesses have KYC (know your customer) and AML (anti-money laundering) compliance requirements that require them to know exactly who they are dealing with. Participants in business networks require the polar opposite of anonymity: privacy.<p>So I actually think this is not such a bad idea. I mean, it allows IBM to take all the money from people who want to buy blockchain, but does not produce negative effects, like energy waste. Sure, I would call it &quot;distributed event sourcing database&quot;, but if it has to be renamed for marketing reasons, this is OK too.
muthdra超过 6 年前
(Image) Do I need a blockchain?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i1.wp.com&#x2F;potdar.info&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;07&#x2F;image_e8795092-8d69-408a-ac77-3fcdce87ca5e20180721_1650214228857716902582941.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i1.wp.com&#x2F;potdar.info&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;07&#x2F;ima...</a>
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carbocation超过 6 年前
Walmart requires lettuce, spinach suppliers to submit information to a database.
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DyslexicAtheist超过 6 年前
<i>&quot;As a tech person, the word &#x27;blockchaing&#x27; is triggering, but the real story here is IBM and WalMart moving more surveillance and monitoring further down the food supply chain, to squeeze more out of farmers at the expense of everyone but them&quot;</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Pinboard&#x2F;status&#x2F;1044926267521486848" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Pinboard&#x2F;status&#x2F;1044926267521486848</a>
StavrosK超过 6 年前
Why is a blockchain required for this? Why can&#x27;t a single party keep this information?
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itissid超过 6 年前
Can&#x27;t one solve the problem of tracking food contamination with a simple key value store that tracks supplier id and the food batch information? Whats the advantage of using blockchain here?
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apo超过 6 年前
Notice how this article never clearly states specifically <i>how</i> a block chain solves the supply chain problem, nor does it even clearly state the problem in the first place.<p>A very common response to these block chain&#x2F;supply chain stories is that &quot;a block chain is just a database.&quot;<p>But even that statement is overly optimistic.<p>A block chain is a log file. It keeps a record of a sequence of state changes. All of the tamper-resistant properties we associate with Bitcoin come, not from the log file it uses, but from the economic incentives around changing the file.<p>So the choice isn&#x27;t between a block chain and a database for these non-economically incentivized use cases such as IBM&#x27;s supply chain projects. Rather, the choice is between a block chain and a dumb log file.
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paulsutter超过 6 年前
There are two reasons to use a blockchain: to avoid double spending in an adversarial environment, and to avoid central control of a database.<p>This application requires neither, and this implementation accomplishes neither.
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adamb01超过 6 年前
Without focusing on the relevance of whether Blockchain is required in this situation, the thing that I find interesting is that this is Walmart and this news source is the WSJ.<p>That means executives from the world&#x27;s largest companies are all reading this article and many will be having discussions with their management teams about blockchain.<p>Technology relevance discussions aside, moves like this are what turn fads and buzzwords into funded projects and business models.<p>And when a big company like Walmart makes a move like this, others follow ...
pertsix超过 6 年前
I guess they&#x27;re using hyperledger?
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arcticbull超过 6 年前
I feel like I’m yelling into the wind, the only time a blockchain is it all relevant is if you cannot trust a single party. You can trust IBM in this case, and are, which makes this just a database but harder.
kelvin0超过 6 年前
To me great business innovations needs 2 equal forces: 1) The marketing and customer oriented drive 2) The scientific, technological and engineering side.<p>If you only have one of each, any success is surely fickle and will quickly dissolve.<p>If one force (Marketing in this case) overwhelms the other, then of course you have &#x27;Blockchains&#x27; to track food. Not saying that there isn&#x27;t a need for this, but it smells funny. I&#x27;m surprised there isn&#x27;t a &#x27;Deep Neural Network&#x27; used also to make things look even more &#x27;cutting edge&#x27; ....
bayesian_horse超过 6 年前
We need a block chain in the fridge to know who ate what.
perfunctory超过 6 年前
I can only imagine how terrible it must have felt to work on this project as an engineer. So your manager tells you &#x27;ok, we are gonna make distributed, blockchain enabled, smart contracts based system&quot; and then you end up building your run-of-the-mill centralized database app. It really saddens me that we have to put up with this kind of BS to just make a living.
mathattack超过 6 年前
I’m surprised that Walmart is wasting time on this. They are both cheap, and very good with traditional databases.
hallihax超过 6 年前
This essentially just feels like a PR push so that Walmart can claim &#x27;better than the competition&#x27; food regulation, without actually opening up the system to be....regulated.<p>There&#x27;s no wider benefit to the public from this unless the chain is publicly verifiable, imo.
kristjansson超过 6 年前
We lack a good hash function for lettuce that allows one to eat it afterwards. This will limit the efficacy of blockchains in the supply chain space, but perhaps not their adoption...
JoshuaAshton超过 6 年前
There is no reason for a blockchain here. A database would suffice just fine. It&#x27;s not even decentralized so what&#x27;s the point?
tomhoward超过 6 年前
Archived&#x2F;paywall-free version:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;RSoqh" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;RSoqh</a>
tCfD超过 6 年前
Of course this was bound to happen, the entire point of a blockchain is supposed to be that joining it is voluntary based on a set of shared values that you wish to support by contributing resources to sustain the blockchain. Forcing someone to join the blockchain is nothing less than forcing them into a commercial racket, and completely renders irrelevant the fundamental value proposition of decentralization.
viach超过 6 年前
Many comments are saying here &quot;it&#x27;s just a database, you don&#x27;t need blockchain for the public events log&quot;. Private blockchain become more understandable when you dive into the level of corruption and data manipulation happening within big corporations. It&#x27;s just much more complex to change a row in blockchain than in good old SQL database, that&#x27;s it.
dnautics超过 6 年前
Can someone explain why you would want to use a block chain here and not just a &quot;database&quot;?
zer0faith超过 6 年前
This just goes to show how ignorant people can be when trying to solve problems with technology.
kown223超过 6 年前
the comments here remind of the dropbox thread as well, people here can be so shortsighted.
ethbro超过 6 年前
Does WSJ have an editing staff? The copy reads like it was written by a bored intern.
ramoz超过 6 年前
had some thoughts: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;rambossa&#x2F;status&#x2F;1044975293109358592" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;rambossa&#x2F;status&#x2F;1044975293109358592</a>
s_kilk超过 6 年前
Will this idiotic mind-virus never die?
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docdeek超过 6 年前
This seems like a cool, real-world use of the technology.
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