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FAA Moves Toward Treating Drones and Planes as Equals

162 点作者 szczys超过 6 年前

17 条评论

madrox超过 6 年前
When I started my first coding job, I once made the joke that &quot;testing is hard. I&#x27;ll just push the code to production and see what happens.&quot; An old, crusty engineer just looked at me and said, &quot;you&#x27;re the kind of person that gets people killed.&quot;<p>I feel like 99% of the engineers who comment on HN don&#x27;t work in fields where their technology could kill someone if it messes up. If an error meant someone&#x27;s death, you&#x27;d probably think a little harder for committing. That&#x27;s why I&#x27;m not taking anyone who calls this &quot;draconian&quot; or derisively &quot;risk averse&quot; seriously.<p>Being a safety-first industry is not a punch line. Life is stochastic, not deterministic, and the FAA exists to add as many 9s to the likelihood of success as possible. Sorry your fun is ruined, but when I fly in a plane I don&#x27;t want to be worrying if some hobbyist with more money than accountability will put my life at risk because they wanted to make a cool video to put on YouTube.
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anon4lol超过 6 年前
Disclaimer: I&#x27;m a licensed private pilot and have a registered drone.<p>I can sum this up simply: jerks ruin everything. Drones were unregulated and would remain so, except for people being jerks.<p>Pilots have areas they can&#x27;t fly below a certain altitude because the noise would rile up wildlife, like flocks of birds; jerk drone pilots, oblivious to this, started zipping through those areas and national parks, scaring up the wildlife (and annoying people), which led to them being banned around national monuments and parks.<p>Drones have also interfered with commercial approaches at airports in Class B airports so they became banned around airports, unless permission is granted from the airport. The FAA came out with regs requiring you to register, and you had to make sure you acknowledged that you had to be permission to fly in class B airport, from the airport. Simply stated, it was so that if you were an jerk and your drone crashed, or you injured anyone on the ground they could find you. Seems reasonable to me.<p>The new regs are just an incremental update. Many flights operate on VFR (Visual Flight Rules), which is basically &quot;see and avoid.&quot; Most commercial flights operate in IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) where air traffic control system guarantees you separation from other aircraft. Of course, they can&#x27;t see small drones on radar, so they can&#x27;t vector you around them or talk to the drone operator. There was a case where a black hawk was struck by a drone last year, requiring an emergency landing. The NTSB ultimately found the guy through the manufacturers serial number, because he his drone never returned.<p>There have been many, many bad actors using drones to harass neighbors, spy on women, and it&#x27;s getting ridiculous. When a licensed pilot has an accident, they know the NTSB and FAA will investigate. You file a safety report and own up to any mistakes, or it will be very bad. The NTSB is very thorough and is primarily interested in keeping future accidents from happening. However, drone pilots run away abandoning their hardware.<p>I think the next iteration will be drones required to have transponders, so air traffic control can see them, and a pilot who has TCAS can see them also. This just means they will be become more expensive, and over time, hopefully transponders and ancillary avionics will become cheaper on aircraft as these companies push into general aviation.
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someguydave超过 6 年前
Anti-drone policies are good for pilots and manned aircraft operators. The bootleggers-and-baptists theory of political incentives would predict that the agency in charge of manned pilot licensing would find morally positive reasons for banning UAVs. They don’t mention the fact that unmanned aviation could be an existential threat to large sectors of manned aviation, and therefore their political influence.<p>Nor do they mention the enormous costs imposed on society because they have banned potentially cheaper or more effective means to productive ends.
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mrfusion超过 6 年前
I hope these regulations will finally address bird ownership. Anyone can walk into a pet shop and buy one with no Id. And if one of those birds escapes from a careless owner it could easily hit a plane or ambulance!
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adamur超过 6 年前
Curious to see where this puts first person view (FPV) flying. I very much enjoy watching this sport grow, but with these new regulations the operator would have to be in line sight at all times.
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proctor超过 6 年前
Here&#x27;s the opinion of an engineer who is also a drone and fixed wing flyer, Bruce Simpson of the x-jet youtube channel:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bcjJFnVzZzY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bcjJFnVzZzY</a><p>He thinks that larger organizations such as amazon want the airspace and are lobbying for it.
mrfusion超过 6 年前
when cars were first coming into use pennsylvania passed a law which would require all motorists piloting their &quot;horseless carriages&quot;, upon chance encounters with cattle or livestock to (1) immediately stop the vehicle, (2) &quot;immediately and as rapidly as possible ... disassemble the automobile&quot;, and (3) &quot;conceal the various components out of sight, behind nearby bushes&quot; until equestrian or livestock is sufficiently pacified.<p>In the UK self-propelled vehicles had to be led by a pedestrian waving a red flag or carrying a lantern to warn bystanders of the vehicle&#x27;s approach<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Red_flag_traffic_laws" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Red_flag_traffic_laws</a>
sctb超过 6 年前
Post on the FAA site: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faa.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;updates&#x2F;?newsId=91844" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faa.gov&#x2F;news&#x2F;updates&#x2F;?newsId=91844</a>.
escherplex超过 6 年前
You can download the final HR302 in .pdf here:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.congress.gov&#x2F;115&#x2F;bills&#x2F;hr302&#x2F;BILLS-115hr302enr.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.congress.gov&#x2F;115&#x2F;bills&#x2F;hr302&#x2F;BILLS-115hr302enr.p...</a><p>(utilities that remove signature panel and permissions which restrict cropping or bookmarking can be used without corrupting document for editing)<p>Some salient points:<p>§ 44809 &#x2F;a&#x2F;7: The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request<p>§ 44809 &#x2F;c&#x2F;7: Persons operating unmanned aircraft [in controlled areas, eg, near airports] shall make the location of the fixed site known to the Administrator and shall establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the air traffic control facility.<p>Plus authorization of local micromanagement by &#x27;State, local, and Tribal governments&#x27; which can submit applications<p>Sec. 351:<p>- prohibiting operations in connection with community or sporting events that do not remain in one place (for example, parades and running events).<p>- prohibiting flight during specified morning and evening rush hours or only permitting flight during specified hours such as daylight hours, sufficient to ensure<p>Didn&#x27;t see any age restrictions on a cursory scan. Rather than setting up a new testing bureaucracy, don&#x27;t see couldn&#x27;t they use the existing amateur radio VE pool? Just use General or Extra who already passed the new FAA test.
carapace超过 6 年前
Just this very evening somebody was flying a big drone all over my neighborhood, on and off again for about an hour or two. It just pisses me off:<p>No identifying marks. No way to tell who the owner is, nor who&#x27;s piloting it.<p>Invasion of privacy. Some unknown person can see into my yard and windows.<p>Hazard. This is a dense neighborhood. If anything goes wrong with that drone it&#x27;s going to crash on someone&#x27;s property or head. This thing was way up in the air and large enough to be seen from quite a distance, maybe 500 meters.<p>I don&#x27;t see any way around it. Drones require strict regulation.<p>I think technology is going to force us to adopt a totalist system (and our humanity will force us to make it humane.) &quot;Star Trek or North Korea&quot; in the limit.
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inamberclad超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m a pilot. We have a saying: that the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations) are written in blood. It&#x27;s very literal. The rulebook for manned flight is comprised mostly of regulations enacted because someone died in a preventable way and we are a deliberately safety-conscious culture.<p>Aviation has 115 years under its belt, and many of those are full of fatalities. One of the issues I see with drones as an emerging industry is that people seem unwilling to learn from our history. I&#x27;ve only been flying for a few years and myself and most of my friends have near-miss stories with other full size, fairly slow moving aircaft. How can we expect to see a drone head-on where there&#x27;s no relative motion?<p>Having the privileged of flying in the national airspace system means shouldering the responsibility of keeping yourself, your passengers, and the people around you safe. Knowing the airplane, weather, and terrain can keep you and your passengers safe. To keep everyone else safe, you need to work with the system so that we can manage increasingly congested areas around the country.<p>TLDR: If drone companies and operators want to be treated like grownups, they&#x27;ll need to grow up.
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mips_avatar超过 6 年前
The problem here isn&#x27;t that the FAA is regulating, we do need rules of the road for drones. The problem is up until this point they didn&#x27;t have the legal authority to do so. From 2010-2014 the FAA put out some draconian memos and statements with scary insinuations that suggested they had the power to regulate drones flying inside your house. These fear tactics required my university to shut down flights of model aircraft, my competition team at an aerial robotics competition couldn&#x27;t compete from 2014 - 2017.
poof131超过 6 年前
My 2 cents as an F-18 pilot turned software dev interested in the space:<p>They need to break apart rules for the true hobbyists, the model airplane flyers: dedicated areas below certain altitudes. They also need to embrace private property rights to a certain altitude. Who wants an Amazon Prime distribution center doing 10,000 flights a day over their kids playing in the backyard. [1]<p>Future BVR (and autonomous) drone operations between 200-400’ will eventually more closely resemble IFR class-A than VFR airspace. [2] Routes need to be defined. [3] Emergency landing areas need to be determined. [4] Comms (network) out procedure need to be planned. [5] And more.<p>It will require significant local involvement. The FAA is going to make sure accident information is shared so lessons can be learned. [6] Part-135 will play a role. [7]<p>For manned aviation these things were implemented over a century with lessons written in blood. [8] It’s going to happen quicker for drones and this is a step in the right direction. People like this are helping to force the issue. [9]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unmannedairspace.info&#x2F;uncategorized&#x2F;ulc-proposes-law-give-us-property-owners-airspace-rights-200ft&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unmannedairspace.info&#x2F;uncategorized&#x2F;ulc-proposes...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faasafety.gov&#x2F;gslac&#x2F;ALC&#x2F;course_content.aspx?cID=42&amp;sID=505&amp;preview=true" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faasafety.gov&#x2F;gslac&#x2F;ALC&#x2F;course_content.aspx?cID=...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Airway_(aviation)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Airway_(aviation)</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Emergency_landing" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Emergency_landing</a><p>[5] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faasafety.gov&#x2F;files&#x2F;gslac&#x2F;courses&#x2F;content&#x2F;38&#x2F;483&#x2F;Lost%20Com%20Graphic.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faasafety.gov&#x2F;files&#x2F;gslac&#x2F;courses&#x2F;content&#x2F;38&#x2F;483...</a><p>[6] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;uavcoach.com&#x2F;daniel-elwell-interdrone-2018&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;uavcoach.com&#x2F;daniel-elwell-interdrone-2018&#x2F;</a><p>[7] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faa.gov&#x2F;about&#x2F;initiatives&#x2F;atos&#x2F;135_certification&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.faa.gov&#x2F;about&#x2F;initiatives&#x2F;atos&#x2F;135_certification...</a><p>[8] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aviation.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;13081&#x2F;why-do-people-say-aviation-regulations-are-written-in-blood" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aviation.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;13081&#x2F;why-do-pe...</a><p>[9] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com&#x2F;video&#x2F;3931613-drone-crashes-inspecting-cracked-window-at-sinking-millennium-tower&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com&#x2F;video&#x2F;3931613-drone-crashe...</a>
chroma超过 6 年前
The FAA sounds so risk averse. I bet if passenger planes were invented today, the FAA would never allow them.
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51Cards超过 6 年前
I saw this video recently. Changed my mind on regulating drones.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QH0V7kp-xg0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QH0V7kp-xg0</a>
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mrfusion超过 6 年前
Here come all the comments that are strangely pro regulation.
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wolfgke超过 6 年前
Just a consideration: instead of regulating drones more, we could also regulate planes less to make them more equal.
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