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Lion Air crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

212 点作者 Gigacore超过 6 年前

20 条评论

ronnier超过 6 年前
Speed and altitude compared to the previous day. Immediate problems from the start. Pilot radioed a technical problem. Plane was delivered in August.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cimg1.ibsrv.net&#x2F;gimg&#x2F;pprune.org-vbulletin&#x2F;1151x734&#x2F;3_c4607b5fa54c9ce9d2ba78abc73c901bc9efc3a4.gif" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cimg1.ibsrv.net&#x2F;gimg&#x2F;pprune.org-vbulletin&#x2F;1151x734&#x2F;3...</a><p>(Credit to a comment on Reddit here <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;aviation&#x2F;comments&#x2F;9s9752&#x2F;indonesian_aircraft_missing_off_jakarta&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;aviation&#x2F;comments&#x2F;9s9752&#x2F;indonesian...</a>)
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wiradikusuma超过 6 年前
&quot;My airlines is the worst in the world, but you have no choice.&quot; — the founder.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ekonomi.kompas.com&#x2F;read&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;21&#x2F;152425026&#x2F;Rusdi.Kirana.di.Balik.Lion.Air.3.Maskapai.Saya.Paling.Buruk.di.Dunia.tetapi.Anda.Tak.Punya.Pilihan" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ekonomi.kompas.com&#x2F;read&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;21&#x2F;152425026&#x2F;Rusdi.K...</a><p>(sorry I can&#x27;t find equivalent story in English)
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angled超过 6 年前
fdr wrote on pprune (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pprune.org&#x2F;rumours-news&#x2F;614857-indonesian-aircraft-missing-off-jakarta-3.html#53" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pprune.org&#x2F;rumours-news&#x2F;614857-indonesian-aircra...</a>)<p>&quot;&quot;&quot; Hmmm.<p>ADC&#x2F;Pitot or load....<p>P&#x2F;S, Pitot main issue (alt is more stable than speed &gt; static is OK). Maybe.<p>OK, the DFDR will be telling, probably as much as the CVR. This plane was in distress from 300&#x27; AMSL, and has every indication of a longitudinal stability issue, e.g., stick force gradient deal. Immediately, forget about directional issues, this isnt an engine, TR, asymmetric slat, flap or other issue, look closely at the loadsheet, and the load control. The ADSB data is indicating an aircraft with negligible static stability, and that points towards a loading error, with a CG near neutral point. Should you ever have that happen, it is not fun; helicopter pilots get laughed at as that is what they are used to every day, which is why they are generally odd people. If you have an AP, the plane will do better on AP often than a driver at the wheel. If you have flaps, get the TE flaps out, or all flaps the Cp is shifted aft. Don&#x27;t go to altitude, don&#x27;t burn CWT gas, move pax fwd if needs be, but mainly, be very careful with your flight control inputs, planes that are unstable are fun to fly for very short times. Do not go fast, unless you have an ejector seat. As an AAI I normally would suggest awaiting data release before sprouting comment pointedly, but this is already shown in the data. Forget suicide etc, this plane had pitch instability from the get go.<p>I have investigated a number of aircraft loading events, and have also been on the receiving end of 2 of my very own. Have sympathy for the poor flight crew, unless they were form a flight test background it is unreasonable to critique their performance. Could an airline train crews to deal with load errors? I can say that is possible, in fact it is not even hard, and last count, I had investigated over a dozen events... need to dust off the confuser for an exact number, but I can recall 12 offhand. Will airlines train crew to handle such cases? highly unlikely, the industry is not after competency above that mandated by the regulator.<p>Load error, possible Pitot.<p>sad day. &quot;&quot;&quot;
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mholt超过 6 年前
FlightRadar24 has a more detailed chart of the telemetry with a link to the granular data: &quot;We have processed the granular ADS-B data received from #JT610. Last signal was received at 23:31:56.030 UTC from -5.81346, 107.12698 at 425 ft AMSL. Final ADS-B data received from the aircraft indicates a high rate of descent.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;flightradar24&#x2F;status&#x2F;1056758281929154565" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;flightradar24&#x2F;status&#x2F;1056758281929154565</a><p>(FlightRadar24: &quot;A word of caution: ADS-B data can be incredibly useful, but to speculate on a cause at this point would be conjecture. The Flight data recorder and Cockpit voice recorder will play an important role in the investigation, as always. #JT610&quot;)
United857超过 6 年前
Given the erratic altitude and speed throughout the entirety of flight, and the fact the pilots radioed to turn back pretty early on, could it have been something similar to the Peruvian flight where the static ports were covered, leading to lack of basic altitude and speed data and causing a crash?<p>(The other possibility I can think of is icing, but since Indonesia is a tropical country, and the flight never got above 5000 feet or so, I&#x27;m guessing it wasn&#x27;t.)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aeroper%C3%BA_Flight_603" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aeroper%C3%BA_Flight_603</a>
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FabHK超过 6 年前
FWIW, I find it crude and tactless to show identifiable personal possessions of the victims. Surprised that the BBC stoops so low.<p>(Note: a friend of mine personally knew several students on board via AIESEC, a student organisation. RIP.)
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MarkMc超过 6 年前
I regularly travel to Jakarta - and I try to avoid the low-cost Indonesian airlines like Lion Air because of their very poor safety record. For example, AirAsia didn&#x27;t think it needed to give its pilots upset recovery training until flight 8501 crashed:<p><i>In the wake of the Air France crash, the [Australian] Civil Aviation Safety Authority required that pilots receive upset recovery training, although it was long a standard practice at Australian airlines. The AirAsia Indonesia crash report said Indonesia&#x27;s Director General of Civil Aviation has no such requirement and neither of the pilots were trained in upset recovery on an A320.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smh.com.au&#x2F;business&#x2F;companies&#x2F;why-the-airasia-crash-report-should-serve-as-a-wakeup-call-for-travellers-20151202-gld94f.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smh.com.au&#x2F;business&#x2F;companies&#x2F;why-the-airasia-cr...</a>
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jey超过 6 年前
Aviation Herald entry: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;avherald.com&#x2F;h?article=4bf90724&amp;opt=0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;avherald.com&#x2F;h?article=4bf90724&amp;opt=0</a>
eigenvector超过 6 年前
Here is a BBC article with more info (and being updated): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-46014463" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-46014463</a><p>At present there is no info to indicate that the aircraft type (737 MAX) is material to the cause of the incident.
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unionemployee超过 6 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;jaime.oliver.5&#x2F;videos&#x2F;10155823035916500&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.facebook.com&#x2F;jaime.oliver.5&#x2F;videos&#x2F;1015582303591...</a>
alexanderMB超过 6 年前
This is an eyewitness statement watching the plane arount at 6.25 est time: 1. The plane was tilting left side that the letter LION was clearly visible. 2. The nose cockpict was pointing UPWARDS. 3. There was BLACK SMOKE coming out from near the wheels. 4. There was a hole on the plane (?) 5. The engine noise was some one not loud and strangely &quot;broken&quot;<p>What does this tell us if it were true?<p>Simple: Turbine failure cause by shattered blades!<p>1. Any blades fracture would disintegrated the whole engine into pieces at about 20K RPM. 2.Some of the catastrohic debris might hit the body plane itself and cause punctured. 3. The black smoke would confirm such hypothesis, a hydraulic failure would never cause any smoke. 4. Pilot tried to balance the doom plane by pointing the plane upwards but the thrust was not available. 5. Electrical short circuited cause by the catastrophic turbin blade failure would make the whole electrical,electronic and hydraulic dead as well. 6. It is very likely that only one turbine is remaining but the whole system was lost to control the descent. 7. At such low altitude which less than 5000 feet, the estimated 70 ton plane would not have the time to do any meaningful repair. 8. Pilot and crew would prioritize saving the plane and passenger instead of radioing a may day.
Gigacore超过 6 年前
Boeing&#x27;s official statement is out - <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;boeing.mediaroom.com&#x2F;news-releases-statements?item=130327" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;boeing.mediaroom.com&#x2F;news-releases-statements?item=13...</a>
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georgeam超过 6 年前
Airliners.net: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airliners.net&#x2F;forum&#x2F;viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=1407217" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airliners.net&#x2F;forum&#x2F;viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=1407217</a>
NotCamelCase超过 6 年前
I wonder how pilots feel reading stuff like this. It must be tough.. As a mere passenger whose nearest flight will be in ~3 months, I am scared to death.
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orliesaurus超过 6 年前
Oh no :( Condoleances to the familiy of the victims, it&#x27;s really sad how that part of the world keeps having really bad plane crashes year after year
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bahro超过 6 年前
Well this is a pretty heartless way to refer to a disaster involving 188 people. (Title currently: &quot;Lion Air&#x27;s brand new Boeing 737 MAX8 crashes into sea&quot;)
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United857超过 6 年前
[deleted]
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himlion超过 6 年前
Friend of mine flew for them up until a few years ago. Said it was a total shitshow.
modzu超过 6 年前
why is this on hackernews?<p>&quot;What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one&#x27;s intellectual curiosity.<p>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they&#x27;re evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they&#x27;d cover it on TV news, it&#x27;s probably off-topic&quot;
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muks超过 6 年前
Condolences, but how is this hacker news? There&#x27;s BBC and CNN for this sort of stuff.
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