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Sales mistakes that software engineers make

777 点作者 Fergi超过 6 年前

34 条评论

bambax超过 6 年前
&gt; <i>Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want.</i><p>I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don&#x27;t ask first is, we want to build <i>something</i>. Anything. If we&#x27;re &quot;wrong&quot;, we won&#x27;t &quot;save&quot; time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something people want?<p>The worst outcome is not to build something nobody wants -- it&#x27;s not to build anything. We don&#x27;t ask not because we forget about it, but because we&#x27;re afraid of the answer.<p>Yes, it&#x27;s irrational, and probably stupid (because, what&#x27;s the point of building something nobody wants?) but the desire to build is the driving force, and finding an audience first, is perceived as an impediment.
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fuball63超过 6 年前
I fall into the &quot;Build before talking to customers&quot; trap constantly. Even though I know it&#x27;s &quot;wrong&quot;, it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to.<p>The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn&#x27;t expect a lot of success with a slow moving Fortune 1000 company in my city, and there&#x27;s no way to search &quot;startups using x&quot; for a generic technology, like serverless or NoSQL.<p>I have found a little success going to meetups and talking in person to other developers and entrepreneurs, so maybe I need to more aggressively take this route. The internet is too big&#x2F;impersonal&#x2F;oversaturated from what I can tell.<p>What would really be helpful as a software engineer is a guide on how to improve entrepreneurial networking, which has to be the foundation before tackling some of the techniques in this article.
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loarake超过 6 年前
I want to echo point #2 about listening rather than talking. When I first pitched my work to radiation therapy vendors at big conferences, I was expecting a kind of adversarial exchange to take place where I&#x27;d have to defend my software against cynical people trying to find its flaws, shark-tank style.<p>Instead I found that vendors were dying to tell <i>me</i> what they need and what&#x27;s important for them. I quickly realised that the most important part after giving my pitch was to basically ask tons of questions about what they think is important and why. The vendors&#x27; answers were invaluable in honing my pitch for other vendors, but also to steer the direction of my project.
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rawoke083600超过 6 年前
I guess its obvious now but when I demo&#x27;ed&#x2F;try-to-sale my software projects I would spend 15 min showing &quot;the guy&quot; all the features.. INSTEAD of listing and teasing-out the ONE requirement&#x2F;problem the guy had and THEN spending 15 min showing him how the software will fix he&#x27;s one big problem.
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edanm超过 6 年前
I sometimes don&#x27;t understand why technical people seem resistant to &quot;lean startup&quot; methodologies. It&#x27;s just the scientific method, applied to build a product! You build hypotheses, then try to prove them, and in the course of this, usually learn more information about the world. That simple.<p>You think you have a product which is useful to someone? Prove it! Talk to people, ask them, build simple prototypes of the core parts.<p>You think you know how to sell your product? Prove it! Build out some sort of pipeline, e.g. use a landing page and see if you can get people to it.<p>Etc.<p>There are good and bad ways to do this, obviously, and it&#x27;s not <i>easy</i>. But the basic idea is simple enough - and most of the arguments against it sound pretty much the same as how it would sound for someone to be against scientific experiments and hypothesis testing.
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koliber超过 6 年前
I tried to correct some of these mistakes with my latest venture. In the past, I would build something that I <i>thought</i> was a pervasive problem with a demand, only to learn later that I was wrong. Ideas are worth very little until they are verified in the real world. You can get a lot done by just talking with people.<p>This time, I&#x27;ve spent a lot of time asking people what they thought of the idea, and hashing it out. I got a lot of positive feedback. People understood the problem. I got a feeling that they &quot;got&quot; the solution. When I sat down to build it, I had more confidence in it than prior projects.<p>There&#x27;s still a lot more selling work ahead. The project is just starting to garner interest. I feel so out of my element selling, but I realize it is just another<p>P.S. The project is goodgrids.com. It&#x27;s an API for converting CSVs to beautifully formatted Excel spreadsheets, and extracting data from Excel spreadsheets into CSVs for uploading into legacy systems.
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duxup超过 6 年前
I don&#x27;t entirely disagree, but I&#x27;ve seen taking these concepts too far blow up just as often as building without input (at least in my experience).<p>In those cases a company finally gets a customer, usually a big one(s) (everyone sees mega dollar signs and maybe they get a taste of it), and then that customer monopolizes the development demands to the point that the product and development are laser focused on the whims of a company or handful of companies, and not something that everyone else who isn&#x27;t engaged in the process will buy.<p>It gets worse when those companies don&#x27;t REALLY know what they will actually buy or keep long term, as they&#x27;re used to effectively just picking from a list of what is available. When given a chance to influence development they often will make odd corner case choices that are legit annoyances with existing products or their own problems.... but absolutely won&#x27;t sell the product at the end of the day or over keep them as a customer the long term. They won&#x27;t tell you what really works already because they only really recall problems with past products.<p>It&#x27;s a delicate balance. Getting user input is hugely important, but they&#x27;re not going to tell you the truth all the time, and they don&#x27;t always know it. Sales guys, also don&#x27;t necessarily know what it is either.<p>I&#x27;ve been on both ends where I was all &quot;OMFG engineering did you think about how people use this!?!? Did you ask anyone??&quot; and &quot;This product is now only useful to one company because all we do is take user input and make widgets what the hell is going on???&quot;
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tinyvm超过 6 年前
While the read was interesting and bring solid points, I strongly disagree with the majority of the arguments.<p>&gt;The biggest mistake I see developers make is assuming that they are building something that people both want and will pay a meaningful amount of money for.<p>Lots of projects were build with no exact plan on how to monetize them of if there would be customers to buy it. They just had a vision about how X or Y technology should be , and just created something by putting their guts in it.<p>The idea that you should marketize something before starting to build is coherent but not true for tech especially when Innovation sometimes requires to educate the customers about how to use a technology , Serverless and Docker are good examples of that I think.<p>&gt;The best way to do this is by asking good questions, and then listening carefully and taking notes<p>Again I strongly disagree here. This pattern pushes entrepreneurs to create a version++ of something already existing because the customers told them :<p>&quot;We are using [Insert Tech Name] and it doesn&#x27;t support feature X&quot;<p>So the entrepreneurs would rush to it&#x27;s keyboard create a clone of the Tech and add the feature X.<p>This is usually called consulting in my opinion and they are already lots of people doing that... Being a &quot;Founder&quot; of something involve taking risk and not just adding a tiny feature because it can brings money on the short term.<p>It&#x27;s about having a vision.<p>As a result , we could quote the hundreds of email startups we have today who basically do the same thing with often one tiny feature of difference...<p>&gt; that does not mean that you have created enough incremental value for customers to make them willing to pay you a meaningful amount of money for your product<p>I agree on this one.
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ptero超过 6 年前
This is a very good post. I am in special agreement with #2 (on listening).<p>However, #1 for me is not quite right. Selling before building anything may backfire as your prospects could see you as an airhead selling vaporware. &quot;OK, this tech looks useful, but so is anti-gravity. Show me that it is buildable and that your team can build it quickly.&quot;<p>One way to allay such concerns is to have a quick prototype that (on a logarithmic scale) is halfway to the product you are selling. This can say &quot;yes, we do not have a product for you today (because we did not focus on it yet), but we <i>can</i> build it quickly&quot;. Would this be something you are interested in? My 2c.
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jillesvangurp超过 6 年前
All true. However there are also a bunch of mistakes sales people make when selling software:<p>Selling something that hasn&#x27;t been built or planned yet. This leads to disappointed customers and&#x2F;or rushed delivery of half assed features. This is easy for the sales persons to do and they tend to move on anyway before the shit hits the fan. Aldo, it&#x27;s technically not their problem when the shit hits the fan.<p>Confusing what the customer says they want with what they actually need. This leads to wasted development effort building something that doesn&#x27;t ultimately solve the customer&#x27;s problem, that nobody else really wants. When sales people take charge of requirements, always question the rationale.<p>Giving into a big customer&#x27;s demands to land a deal and thus crippling the company doing custom development for that one customer at a huge discount and at the cost of shipping value to other paying customers. I would say this is the #1 mistake in selling SAAS software. It&#x27;s literally a company killer as often the customer is unhappy anyway and then cancels the deal. I&#x27;ve seen multiple startups get stranded doing all sorts of crap for a customer that ultimately walks away.<p>Listening to a customer that has not committed to paying. Before they pay, they are just haggling over details. They&#x27;ll want everything you suggest and then some. After they pay, they&#x27;ve committed to you and then you can be reasonable about their demands. Especially in an early phase of a company everybody is interested in becoming a customer if only you were to do X, Y, And Z. You check back two weeks later they&#x27;ll come up with more crap. It never ends and they may never buy something.<p>My recommendation is to always build an MVP and try to sell the MVP. If you can&#x27;t sell the MVP, it&#x27;s not viable. If it takes a long time to build it, it is not minimal. If you have no MVP you have nothing to sell. An MVP is not a click demo, it needs to be a functioning thing that delivers value to paying customers. Building it should be proportional to the amount of risk you are willing to take financially and the amount of money you are going to make if successful.<p>Of course definitely talk to potential customers as early as you can but don&#x27;t promise anything you can&#x27;t deliver.<p>After the MVP stage work with roadmaps and prioritize according to what is needed, feasible, and valuable. Most stuff customers want fails at least one of these tests. Most sales people are poor judges of feasibility or necessity.
option_greek超过 6 年前
&gt;Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling<p>What if the customer wants to see a demo ? Is it better to inform them from the very start that this is a conversation about the product that is non existent ? Isn&#x27;t it better to have a MVP in place.<p>Almost all the sales guides&#x2F;people tell this. But this is also something I can&#x27;t get my head around.
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kowdermeister超过 6 年前
Currently I&#x27;m in totally &quot;guilty&quot; of #1, but it feels fine and I don&#x27;t care if it&#x27;s not the best way to launch something. I want to sell t-shirts online. What kind of research do I need? It&#x27;s a proven model, people buy t-shirts and other merch online, so the only thing I need is to build it, design it <i>before</i> selling. I just want to build a side project that pays the bills, not going after to outplace major players.<p>#2 is interesting, I will do this by first selling to friends and talking to them in person to collect enough feedback to do an iteration on the product. I do agree that listening is key.<p>#3 <i>The ideal situation for you is to have as many signed, legally binding customer contracts as possible</i><p>Meh, this is for one specific type of business, there&#x27;s tons of business models that this doesn&#x27;t apply to. If the product can collect money from day one, then you won&#x27;t have the problem of mistaking interest for demand. What&#x27;s even better is to turn people who are just interested into your advocates.
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iforgotpassword超过 6 年前
&gt; The responses that customers give to thoughtful, open-ended questions inform how customers think about their problems, needs, budgets, timeline, decision making process, fears, alternative options to your product, and the extent to which they perceive that your product solves their problem.<p>What I&#x27;d like to add here, since the article only indirectly says so, is that you shouldn&#x27;t take any idea or request you get literally and start implementing it. Try to figure out what the underlying problem of the customer is, since often times they already have half a solution in their mind and just tell you what they need to make it work, when there might actually be a completely different approach to their problem that they didn&#x27;t think of. I think that&#x27;s the hard part of talking to customers.<p>And obviously, if your product does seem to be a good fit for the customer, but requires some rethinking of how to organize things or change workflows, finally selling the product is still hard, because they won&#x27;t immediately see the benefit. In those cases, word of mouth really is your best friend, which somewhat requires you&#x27;re selling in a sector where potential customers are strongly networked, so anything in the public sector is a good example here.<p>&gt; Many engineers I&#x27;ve talked to report experiencing social anxiety and a sense of discomfort during sales conversations.<p>Something I can relate to. I really learned a lot in this field over the years, but I still leave selling to sales people. I&#x27;m often times joining our sales rep when he&#x27;s visiting new or potential customers because of what I can learn, and just in case the customer has some specific technical questions. But when there&#x27;s questions about feature requests or anything they dislike I&#x27;m easily tempted to always give honest answers like &quot;uh I don&#x27;t think this can easily be changed, I&#x27;d have to think about how I&#x27;d approach this&quot;, which, while honesty in general is a good thing, just doesn&#x27;t work well in a sales conversation, like you have no clue about what you&#x27;re doing. So I know when to shut up and let the sales guy fill in for me.<p>As of #3, we approach this by giving every customer a free trial of 6 month and then a 50% discount for the next 6 month. Since our product falls into the category of requiring some rethinking and restructuring, this has proven to be an excellent strategy, since we are often met with equal amounts of interest and hesitation.
mrtksn超过 6 年前
Are there examples of great companies that actually started selling before building the product?<p>From Google to Facebook, all the companies that I&#x27;ve ever researched seems to be based on people fiddling with ideas and then quickly iterate to the direction when they start getting traction.<p>Sure, there are crowdfunding sites or established companies selling based on CGI drawings or concept videos but this seems to be not the rule but the exception for the products that I use. What seems to be the rule is that people have some ideas, they build MVPs and fast-iterate or pivot based on the reception.<p>For the b2c, at least... Anyway, the article is probably talking about b2b where it can be O.K. to start with some slides of value propositions and build the thing later because of the selling process taking moths and the implementation, potentially years.<p>edit: hmm, maybe I am taking the &quot;selling&quot; a bit too literally.
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commonsense1234超过 6 年前
the fourth mistake is visiting your site. why do you need 40+ cookies to track visitors?
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ivanhoe超过 6 年前
In my opinion these advices apply mostly to B2B and enterprise segment, where you sell to much smaller group of people and it&#x27;s easier to articulate their needs and demands ahead, and where each individual sale is a significant achievement.
ScottBurson超过 6 年前
While I think this is a great piece — especially the part about listening — and it&#x27;s something we engineers all need to take to heart, I think its applicability varies depending on the nature of the product and the market.<p>If you&#x27;re trying to serve a previously completely unmet need, as many startups are, then this advice is spot on and you should print it out and pin it to your wall. But there are different cases. Sometimes you&#x27;re trying to bring an incremental advance to a well-established market. In that case there may well already be established marketing and distribution channels, and the value of your product may be readily evident to users of the existing ones. This is especially true in cases where the primary barriers to improvement are technological. To take an extreme example, people working on fusion power don&#x27;t need to validate the market at all; when they finally build a working plant, they&#x27;ll just have to plug it into the grid and get paid. <i>Some</i> of the things we build have this character, at least to some extent.<p>Another exception has to be made for truly visionary products. Sometimes, as Steve Jobs famously pointed out, people don&#x27;t know they want something until they see it. The Macintosh might be the best example; computer users in 1983 were not generally thinking that they needed a GUI-based OS. This is a dangerous one, though, because we all want to think we&#x27;re visionaries. If you&#x27;re going to go down this path, do it with your eyes open, and realize your vision may be wrong — or, more frustratingly, right but too early (e.g. [0]).<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;VPL_Research" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;VPL_Research</a>
bsvalley超过 6 年前
Great pieces of advice but it’s like asking a sales person to learn how to code. My best advice and where I believe engineers should spend 100% of there energy up front, is to go out there and find a cofounder who’s primary skill is to sell stuff. Product or marketing folks.<p>Both strategies (yours and mine) are very tough and time consuming, so I’d definitely pick mine. Why? Because it would be so much more optimized in the long run. That’s how most of the tech companies started and there’s a good reason for that.
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ilaksh超过 6 年前
See a book called &quot;The Mom Test&quot;.
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CM30超过 6 年前
There&#x27;s also a fourth related mistake they make too:<p>Focusing on building instead of selling.<p>It&#x27;s not just that you need to start selling your product before you make it to gauge demand, you also need to continue to sell your product and market it after it goes up too.<p>But that&#x27;s not fun for many software engineers. It&#x27;s not enjoyable setting up ads and deals with influencers and meeting with clients and working on SEO and what not. It&#x27;s fun to sit in front of a computer writing code.<p>So we get a bunch of technically fancy projects with nice looking GitHub profiles and Hacker News showcase posts, all of which barely anyone actually uses. It doesn&#x27;t help that for a certain percentage of developers (read, many people here), they seem to think selling or marketing something is inherently immoral in some way or another.
0xferruccio超过 6 年前
I can resonate with this so much.<p>Just recently I had an idea for a product and rushed to building it because it “solved” a problem.<p>But then when it came to trying to get some sales it has been a failure. The only people that were willing to buy the product didn’t understand it.<p>When starting out in my opinion if you don’t have a large network of people in the tech industry it’s important to focus on products that either increase sales or save a lot of money (3-4x cheaper than existing solutions).<p>I find that the products that sell have to be a no brainer deal.<p>I wrote about what I learned building and selling a cybersecurity saas here, don’t make my same mistakes: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ferrucc.io&#x2F;posts&#x2F;sales-for-cybersecurity-saas&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ferrucc.io&#x2F;posts&#x2F;sales-for-cybersecurity-saas&#x2F;</a>
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eismcc超过 6 年前
Good article. I will go out on a limb with a couple self-observed behaviors:<p>I&#x27;d venture to guess that a good litmus test for knowing if someone is ready to start a business is measuring their ability to deal with conflict.<p>When engineers aren&#x27;t good at dealing with conflict, they are likely heading towards escapism when they start a project:<p>1) Engineers sometimes don&#x27;t necessarily want customers, they want intellectual freedom. Having customers is scary, and if your subconscious goal is escapism, having customers is even scarier. 2) Listening to people may lead you down the road of doing something you don&#x27;t want to do. See #1. This may mean not having the freedom to do what you think you want to do. Which likely is not making money.
wslh超过 6 年前
The points are good but I think the problem with engineers trying to sell is deeper: engineers are focused in the truth while salesmen use a grayscale. Sometimes they go to the darker side and even black. The point of selling is selling! The startup community escapes this talk because it is politically incorrect but you can see the behavior in many successful companies. For example, thinkabout Microsoft negotiating&#x2F;selling to IBM
devit超过 6 年前
It&#x27;s because sales, and in general any social activity, has inherently unpredictable and random results, while engineering is mostly deterministic.<p>Also, much easier to sell something that exists since obviously customers don&#x27;t gain much by and thus don&#x27;t care much about signalling whether they would buy something that they might be able to buy in the future, as opposed to just buying something they want and can get immediately.
goshx超过 6 年前
I find that this applies to non software engineers as well. When people are in love with their own idea sometimes it is difficult for them to listen and to learn if people really want that.
pjmlp超过 6 年前
Fully agree, matches quite a lot with what I see around me.
vimarshk超过 6 年前
The three points are spot on! I have done a couple of these in my career. Great summary!
sharemywin超过 6 年前
That&#x27;s because most people determine that if your doing something where your getting told that&#x27;s &quot;the dumbest thing I&#x27;ve ever heard&quot; 9 out of 10 times it times to find something else to do.
sova超过 6 年前
Asking is better than listening is better than talking
mlthoughts2018超过 6 年前
The first point is often totally wrong. I worked in a place where the sales team sold the product hard before much of it was built and before it was reliable.<p>It turned out to be way harder to build what customers actually wanted than anyone knew ahead of time. Nobody could foresee it. The only way we could have known we were egregiously over-promising in the sales pitches was to just actually start building it first, see how hard it would be and what the unexpected sources of engineering difficulty would be, and then scope our sales vision or pitches accordingly.<p>That particular product team failed badly and the product line was closed down. We started selling before building, and only later realized that when you do that, you’re talking out of your ass and you are doing a huge disservice to prospective clients who buy into your sales pitch just to be let down later when you cannot execute on the implementation for reasons that could have been known if only you had invested in building things first.<p>The same issue can also play out with costs: maybe you technically can build what you sold, but because you over-promised in the sales pitches, you end up in a situation where to be able to offer what was actually sold, the engineering costs force it to be intrinsically unprofitable, while had you known the cost projections from building first, you might have been able to scope the sales pitch to only a profitable set of features.<p>It’s way easier to throw away &#x2F; rebuild something later when sales feedback indicates you should pivot than it is to build nothing at all, over-promise, and try to keep clients who end up unhappy that you misled them.<p>The cost of building first so you have adequate information about what it would require to profitably support selling a certain product or feature set is known as _investment_.
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browsercoin超过 6 年前
I have to disagree with #1. The overwhelming response at this stage is a big FRIG OFF from the other end who in the past 10 years have steadily been receiving from various &quot;disruptive&quot; startups, who all read the same pile of garbage that is &quot;The Lean Startup&quot;, who all preach the same fucked up assumption- that the rest of the world has access to the same socioeconomic environment, &quot;The Country Club&quot;, friend of a CEO father who knows people, etc.<p>I feel that it&#x27;s no longer a merit based but short term pump and dump in which private equity is traded but not without surrendering your control as the founder and that you are now on the dole on a community of investors that trade shares for pennies and have every legitimate reason to dump it to unsuspecting public market to reap profits.<p>Advices like #1, In 2018, honestly irrelevant, and increasingly sounding like the new telemarketer. For instance, I repeatedly get calls or emails from a variety of SaaS founders or other developers who started their product that I&#x27;ve grown to detune and avoid them.<p>The big marketing fields are prohibitively expensive so those with the pocket can bid up and essentially deny competitors access to the same consumers.<p>Trying to sell something that doesn&#x27;t exist can be done, but not without compromises with unclear results. Why? The power dynamic is asymmetric due to the sheer capital and a hound of top tier lawyers ready to sink their teeth into your startup.<p>Meaning, they can even sign a memo or an agreement to express interest and then pull out. What the fuck are you gonna do, sue a Fortune 1000 company?
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throwaway487548超过 6 年前
Surprisingly good one. Usually it is &quot;not asking high-enough prices&quot; kind of bullshit.<p>I have been burned by 1 and 3 more than once.<p>Also I have lots of ideas which actually have no real demand, like to list cheap, remote, nice and quiet, organic locations in Asia yet suitable for remote working and long-term stay, like Sikkim or Nepal or Ladakh (order of magnitude cheaper than Thai coast line). But, unfortunately, there is absolutely no demand for this kind of arrangements, because there is almost no demand for remote work in the first place.
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bitxbit超过 6 年前
How about all the mistakes companies make due to “sales” people? How many times have sales-oriented execs driven companies into the ground in the past 40+ years in tech? They nearly killed Apple. I am not harping on the article. It’s a good read for indy developers.
malcolmgreaves超过 6 年前
Selling something before you make it is highly unethical. You have no idea if you can actually make it, so you run the risk of committing fraud. Additionally, such a strategy could only work if what you&#x27;re making is very simple. If it&#x27;s complex, is your customer really going to be okay with &quot;please sign here and we&#x27;ll get it to you in the next year.&quot;<p>Have a dream. Turn it into a vision. Make a business plan. Create an MVP. Then go try to sell it and listen to the feedback.<p>I&#x27;d you&#x27;re wrong, then suck it up and deal with the consequences of failure. Failure is never fatal; it&#x27;s the courage to continue that counts.
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