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Now 2.0

415 点作者 Rauchg超过 6 年前

33 条评论

simonw超过 6 年前
This is a really cool product - but it&#x27;s a very different beast from Now 1.0.<p>Now 1.0 really was my perfect deployment tool: you can HTTP POST it a Dockerfile and it will build that container for you, start it running and start routing HTTP traffic to it.<p>This means you can use it for essentially anything that can be expressed in a Dockerfile. And the Dockerfiles you use work anywhere that runs Docker, so local development is really simple.<p>Now 2.0 is a totally different thing. It&#x27;s a way of running HTTP fronted lambda-style functions written in Go, Node, Python or PHP. It looks like you can add other platforms by writing a new builder but there aren&#x27;t any community-driven examples of that just yet.<p>It&#x27;s cool, but it&#x27;s a completely different product from Now 1.0 - and for my particular use-cases (my Datasette project and serving machine learning models) it sadly doesn&#x27;t appear to be suitable.<p>I kind of wish this was called something else - &quot;Zeit Lambda&quot; perhaps - and old Zeit Now with the Dockerfiles could live on as a separately named project (rather than being the legacy earlier version of Zeit Now).
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sholladay超过 6 年前
I have been a paid customer of Zeit for a while and have really loved their products thus far. But v2 is making me reconsider my plans. The other day, I tried to scale an existing app to an additional region and I promptly found out that Node apps are not supported in their newer regions, such as GRU. The new regions only support v2 and can&#x27;t even run a Hello World without Docker, which is completely stupid. I&#x27;m not going to add any bloat to my app just to use those regions. And even if I did, I wouldn&#x27;t want to go &quot;serverless&quot; any time soon, given the much more mature and robust ecosystem for traditional server frameworks. Lots of things around serverless are still being figured out. Yes, it is totally doable to run some things that way in production, but it&#x27;s not yet what I would personally choose for most of my apps.
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kristiandupont超过 6 年前
While this is cool and surely an improvement technically, it makes it clear that I will have to move off of Now. That makes me sad as I immediately became a paying customer and have loved the product more and more each day.<p>It’s not that I couldn’t upgrade, surely I could. It’s inconvenient but not impossible. The problem is that I need my hosting to be as reliable and invisible as possible. Being informed that I need to change my infrastructure out of the blue is unacceptable unless it’s because there is a security reason or perhaps because I am using severely outdated technology. I will now have to spend precious development time figuring out which alternative will match my build process etc.
brod超过 6 年前
This is the only disappointing release I’ve seen from Zeit, their original mission statement was to make “cloud computing” accessible to everyone and with Now v1 they killed it, providing a truly an awesome product. Now v2 is a pivot away from everything that made them unique, soon they&#x27;ll be mistaken for a trendier version of Netlify...
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StanAngeloff超过 6 年前
I was considering investigating Now&#x2F;Zeit as a possible evolution over our current stack. Having seen this announcement I&#x27;m not so sure that is still a good idea. Now 2 is a completely different beast to Now 1. The very last thing we need is churn in our servers&#x2F;infrastructure rivalling our frontend. Is Now 3 going to be [dramatically improving the reliability and scalability of -our- deployments] yet again?
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ericand超过 6 年前
A couple significant callouts:<p>(1) &quot;Behind the scenes, Now 2.0 works like an extensible build system and compiler, capable of transforming your sources into static files and serverless functions (lambdas) for production.&quot;<p>The demo is pretty slick. I&#x27;ve seen other frameworks, like Begin.com, where your lambdas are more explicit, but I&#x27;m curious to try this autogenerated approach.<p>(2) &quot;The Now 2.0 platform features include: A unified deployment type: All deployments are one type, regardless of static or dynamic parts Massive build parallelization: Each deployment can kick off many concurrent serverless builds. Monorepo support: Define API endpoints in Go, PHP, Node.js, Next.js, and such, in just one repository. Zero-instruction builds: Our open-source builders take the build and cache config burden away. Universal Cloud: Our platform leverages the best cloud infrastructure, with no lock-in or config. With the following pricing improvements: Fully on-demand pricing, Per-100ms pricing for compute, Free seats for small teams Including a better free-tier for our community.&quot;<p>It feels like all the Zeit features are coming together for a more complete offering. I love it.
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tima101超过 6 年前
@Rauchg<p>What fraction of Now customers care about cost and scalability so much that they will invest time into splitting monolithic server into many lambdas (a monorepo). (I&#x27;ve read in Now 2.0 docs that it is recommended to have 1 lambda per 1 API route.) EDIT: After splitting, is there overhead in managing many lambdas vs monolith server?<p>Once a server is split and configured, will these customers be able to migrate out of Now 2.0? From what I see right now, it is basically a vendor lock-in.<p>Is it possible that majority of Now&#x27;s customers are websites, simple CRUD apps, small SaaS apps and they don&#x27;t care about cost and scalability that much and won&#x27;t add lambda-related overhead to their code?<p>Do you guys try to shrink your customer base and work with perhaps bigger clients with critical apps who are more paranoid about scaling, cost and want to invest in lambdas?<p>Sorry about typos.
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ianstormtaylor超过 6 年前
Potentially noob question... but how does having a lambda function per route work with connection pooling for something like Postgres?<p>Also, does ZEIT have any plans to offer hosted databases like Heroku and others do? That&#x27;s one the biggest blockers in my mind to trying it out.
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iMuzz超过 6 年前
I have a question (I&#x27;ve tinkered with Serverless stuff but never on a production app) but my underlying assumption might be wrong.<p>I like that the cold boot up performance for a single function is super fast when compared to a &quot;Legacy Server&quot;. But after the legacy server is up it &quot;stays warm&quot; regardless of user activity. Unlike a lambda function which goes cold after a few minutes of inactivity.<p>So the first user that hits an endpoint after some inactivity has to wait (a few seconds) for the lambda function to cold boot vs. being served immediately on the legacy server.<p>Is my assumption here true? Or are cold boots on lambda super fast now? When I was doing this stuff ~8 months ago it would take like 5+ seconds to be served after a cold boot.
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navd超过 6 年前
Is there way to develop and test this locally? It seems like you constantly need to deploy to now to test new changes?
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homerjam超过 6 年前
Can anyone offer an explanation of how this impacts docker based deploys? Since the serverless docker announcement in August I&#x27;ve been hoping to move off of DO to now but it sounds like that won&#x27;t be possible with a 5mb cap...?
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sjroot超过 6 年前
To me, the biggest things are the pricing improvements, including the changes to the free tier. This will make it much easier for small teams to go from concept to deployment without having to worry about exposing their source code or ending up with a huge bill. Thank you all for your hard work!
alexashka超过 6 年前
For someone who&#x27;s not in the loop, can someone give a brief explanation of what pain point this solves?<p>The space of &#x27;easy deployment&#x27; and &#x27;scale&#x27; seems incredibly crowded, from reading the headlines - what makes this different&#x2F;better?
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DevKoala超过 6 年前
Can `Now` serve as the backend for latency sensitive endpoints? My main problem with AWS Lambda a couple few years ago was the latency. In a dumb function, imagine a single K&#x2F;V lookup, is * &lt; 10ms response time a possibility?
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tmvnty超过 6 年前
As a big Next.js fan, this is a big release to me, React is my go to front-end choice and Next.js does amazing jobs server-side rendering and many other great things too, Now v2 supports Next.js out of the box means I can use lambda functions to serve SSR React for will save me a lot of boilerplates and maintenance work, so I will definitely check out Now again probably try few demo apps out...<p>But all great things aside, having Now v2 tied with AWS lambda means I will have to switch to AWS too. I like to stick with one cloud provider and my current favourite is GCP&#x2F;Firebase, and I will have to weigh out the pro &amp; cons of AWS&#x2F;GCP again for Now v2. Hopefully in the near future, Now could be cloud provider agonostic
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tofflos超过 6 年前
Are you looking into making builders for Java and are you looking into offering some sort of persistent storage?<p>I liked the 1.0 Docker-version and 2.0 feels like a completely different product. Have you considered offering both long-term?
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robotkdick超过 6 年前
I have been using Now in production for about a year. I fell in love with the version 1 product because it lived up to the mission, which I think went something like: make deployments as easy as using an iphone, or something like that.<p>I trust the leadership at Zeit are making the right decisions technically, but as the company grows, it also seems to get further away from its original mission.<p>The swift deprecation of previous versions is threatening to undermine any resemblance to the mission, if ease of use is still the mission.<p>The React team got this so right with the release of hooks in 16.7. Dan couldn&#x27;t have been any more right on the money in his delivery, which was laden with promises of no breaking changes and &quot;don&#x27;t feel like you have to rewrite anything.&quot;<p>When Zeit released cloud v2, about three months ago, they made v2 the default, which broke many development workflows and required me personally to spend three full days refactoring code and resolving Docker issues due to an obscure error that Zeit support had trouble identifying. The breaking change was a shock and a surprise. The explanation? You should be doing things this way anyway.<p>Perhaps that was true, but maybe not.<p>After going through all the trouble of converting to cloud v2, I reverted to cloud v1 because I could not set the min instances in cloud v2, to eliminate cold boot as an issue. Someone on this thread said cold boot is 200ms. That may be true for a particular application, but I received so many customer complaints about slow boots (5 seconds or more), I had to revert. Reverting has solved the issue.<p>As of today, I have a deprecation warning when I log into Now which says `Your account is using a legacy platform version. We highly recommend upgrading.` Or what? Are you going to make my unmutable application mutable?<p>This announcement about Now v2 is confusing, first of all because Zeit already released cloud v2. How are the versions related? Next, serverless may be the future of everything, or it may not work for some existing environments. The jury is out.<p>To someone at Zeit, please watch the React Hooks Intro video, and the parts of Dan Abraham and Ryan Florence in particular: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reactjs.org&#x2F;docs&#x2F;hooks-intro.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reactjs.org&#x2F;docs&#x2F;hooks-intro.html</a><p>This is a great way to treat your stakeholders. Also, what helps is that React is going in a direction that focused on simplicity in design. I&#x27;ve experienced the opposite with using Now, but I still love the mission.<p>And if I want to keep my now 1.0 (or iphone 6 plus) because I prefer it, why do you want to take it away so badly? My complaint is not that you are making improvements. I trust your leadership in this space. You&#x27;re obviously smart people. The problem is the behavior around deprecating earlier versions. It&#x27;s herky-jerky and inconsistent.<p>Also, what is the mission now? That would be great to know.
andrewmunsell超过 6 年前
Are there any public plans for early access or an ETA to GA for features like scheduled jobs? That&#x27;s very important to me, and since daemons aren&#x27;t on v2, there&#x27;s currently no way to do them internally to Now (I suppose you could have an external cron system GET&#x2F;POST a URL every N minutes).<p>Congrats on the launch, it looks like a much more cohesive product now!
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XCSme超过 6 年前
Is it only for HTTP or does it also work with WebSockets?
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gigatexal超过 6 年前
How do users do logging, just an agent in the app that sends data to a hosted logs platform?
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garysahota93超过 6 年前
When they say &quot;server-less&quot; do they mean building apps with local data and nothing goes to the company, or do they mean the server aspect is all taken care of by them? I&#x27;m not the most advanced person and would really like to know more.<p>Thanks!
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karakanb超过 6 年前
Kudos to the team to launch this new version, it looks really slick and my previous experience with Now was pure joy, it was really easy to get up and running. My only question with this approach is what is the suggested way to work locally? For example, the `Majestic Monorepo` sample is quite hard to run locally without Docker or a similar containerization technology, what is Now&#x27;s approach to this? Would we be able to work offline with a project like this for example?
schnarfnark超过 6 年前
Looks cool. FYI – API Reference in the nav 404s: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zeit.co&#x2F;api&#x2F;v2&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zeit.co&#x2F;api&#x2F;v2&#x2F;</a>
PullJosh超过 6 年前
All of this serverless stuff looks great in theory, but I&#x27;m struggling to understand what the development environment looks like. Does every change in testing get deployed to zeit? That seems cumbersome. Otherwise, is there a nice way to test this stuff locally? (Also, how would one set up a database? On a separate service?)
avip超过 6 年前
I&#x27;d really like to see now supports non-HTTP deployments. That would be a killer feature. There&#x27;s currently no raw TCP hosted solution offered, period. now could position themselves as the first mover there. The now interface is already amazing and a total joy to use.
oliverx0超过 6 年前
I was just browsing through the docs and got a rate limited error. (429)<p>From what I got to see, it is really cool!
dev1789超过 6 年前
We loved you, Now. But we have to leave you, Now.<p>Serverless is still bad for modern web apps, that serve HTTP requests to real people..<p>I know that from practice, running Next.js &amp; a GraphQL backend on AWS lambda.<p>Many devs think, that the infamous &quot;cold start&quot; problem is easily solved by:<p>&quot;Warm&quot; keeping (keeping a number of functions &quot;warm&quot; 24x7).<p>Cold start times getting below a certain level, the often cited &lt; 300ms.<p>Both solutions currently fail to address the problem.<p>Let&#x27;s say you keep 5 functions &quot;warm&quot;. Of course the first users will not suffer from cold starts. But then, if you get a large number of almost simultaneous requests (a burst).<p>A certain number of users will get immediate responses, as they are handled by warm functions. But another set of users will experience far worse response latencies, as lambda functions were spun up, for every additional request coming in, while the warm functions were occupied.<p>While spinning up new servers is definitely slower, the total wait time in the classical server model, under heavy load, is equally distributed among all users of your app, so everyone sees it perform &quot;a bit slower&quot;.<p>In the serverless model, on the other hand, some users will enjoy the immediate response time, while others will have horrible response times (especially taking additional latencies into consideration, see below). And they will leave your website within those 3 seconds.<p>For most commercially successful websites, increased latency is far more expensive, than some additional scaling cost. Everyone coming to our app is worth a lot of $$$, as we had to spend a lot of $$$ to get her here. One should consider that, when discussing scaling considerations. I think most people know the famous Amazon study, of 100 ms === -1% in sales. So if you try to argue about scaling cost, please keep your Google AdWords bill close.<p>Keeping functions warm also feels like the stone age. You&#x27;re basically just pinging the thing all the time. People are seriously talking about pint-time-distribution-algorithms on Medium, i.e. how often, and at what time deltas you need to ping the thing, to hope that e.g. AWS Lambda is keeping a certain number of functions warm for you. Feels like a mysterious hack to me.<p>Now, let&#x27;s debunk this naive latency argument. (I was sold on that, too before i ran a real life app on it).<p>Obviously you&#x27;re not using a huge monolith, splitted your app in services, at least backend &amp; frontend. Now, take a look at our user case.<p>Client →<p>→ Next.js Frontend (Lambda with Node.js)<p>→ GraphQL Server (Lambda with Node.js)<p>→ Prisma GraphQL Server (Lambda with the JVM)<p>→ Some managed database at GCP or AWS<p>See the problem? You don&#x27;t have ONE cold start time. You might have THREE.<p>And don&#x27;t forget, this is just additional time added to the:<p>Request handling time + database calls + data center latencies + client location latency + low client bandwith. This is why you can read comments here, that real people are waiting 5 sec for your page to load.<p>Also: The &lt; 300 ms is just a best case scenario, that works for Node.js apps. Try to put a JVM app into the chain app (like e.g. Prisma GraphQL which runs on Scala). The results will be far worse.<p>That&#x27;s also why the term &quot;global deployments&quot; is just a nice buzz word. Never forget to keep all your stuff in the same datacenter. You can&#x27;t abstract away physics. You need to know or make educated guesses, who really owns these Zeit datacenters. If you read &quot;Brussels&quot;, get your database at Google. If it&#x27;s SFO, it might be better AWS..<p>If you&#x27;re running GraphQL servers with subscriptions, or any other keep alive connections, beware of other issues with Lambda.<p>We were planning to use Zeit Now for our whole app infrastracture, besides the DB, which was supposed to be managed by Google or AWS.<p>We were doing serverless and running on AWS Lambda &amp; Now before. And we were facing severe issues with AWS Lambda: Massive problems with cold starts, with user request bursts (e.g. someone posts an article about your app or after running a TV commercial)<p>While i try to &quot;embrace&quot; Lambdas that, i must admit, appeal to me from a dev experience viewpoint, i&#x27;m losing $$$ and FAR WORSE, providing a bad experience to my users.
js4ever超过 6 年前
Other similar wrapper to lambda functions but with a serverless sql database: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cloudbackend.appdrag.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cloudbackend.appdrag.com</a>
pier25超过 6 年前
This makes a lot more sense for me. Next step for total serverless domination is solving the database.<p>Congrats!
jahewson超过 6 年前
Has anyone here used Now extensively for dynamic sites? What was your experience?
kierenj超过 6 年前
Still haven&#x27;t been able to get a simple now example running, issue open since Apr 2017 - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;now-examples&#x2F;linux-desktop&#x2F;issues&#x2F;1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;now-examples&#x2F;linux-desktop&#x2F;issues&#x2F;1</a>
revskill超过 6 年前
How about websocket over lambdas ?
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nine_k超过 6 年前
Can&#x27;t help but say that &quot;Now 2.0&quot; is one of the coolest headlines possible. (The scope of the article is, of course, a bit narrower than a new major release of the current reality.)