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Ask HN:My former co-founder is threatening to sue me

45 点作者 hack_rohan超过 14 年前
Hi all,<p>I am from a third world country and my fomer co-founder is a u.s citizen.<p>We have been working since last 3 years on a ad network start-up which closed earlier this year.<p>I started a part-time project and i need some money to sustain myself so i decided to ask for 500 USD for 6 months and also 2 - 4 hrs commitment everyday from my former co-founder the project kicked off really well and we generated about 6K income in 1 week after the expenses our total profit was about 4K.<p>My co-founder paid for 2 months thats 500x2 after that the venture was profitable so he never paid and he didnt commit any time in 6 months he only spend 10-15 days avg 1-2 hrs on advicing and i myself spend 18 hrs a day in coding and business development.<p>After repeatly warning him i dedicided yesterday asked to not to do any futher business with him and pay him for the expenses and he got mad hearing this he threatened to sue in U.S court and file a grandtheft against me he says i will never be able to step in US or do business with a US company if i dont give him 2000 USD right now plus 50% of the company.<p>I feel cheated to work with someone who cannot commit time and effort as much i do in the venture.<p>All agreements we had were via chat and voice and not in legal sheet.<p>The company is a not us company but must of our customers are from u.s.<p>Please advice<p>Thank you !

22 条评论

petervandijck超过 14 年前
"I dedicided yesterday asked to not to do any futher business with him and pay him for the expenses". I'm sorry, you are wrong here. He took risks. You can't just "pay him for expenses" and expect him to give up his part of a profitable business.<p>If this company made 4000 US$ in a week (as you say), it is worth a lot of money and you will need to negotiate with him. Offering to pay him 1000$ for his part (ie. "his expenses") is ridiculously low.
unexpected超过 14 年前
Dude, it's not worth his time to sue you for anything less than $5k. Lawyers are very expensive here.<p>I would just incorporate on your own, in India. Run your business as if he didn't exist. He won't do anything.
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bcrescimanno超过 14 年前
What you've written is quite contradictory; for example: why does he want 50% of a now defunct company?<p>You said that you made 6k in one week; after saying that you've been working on this start up for 3 years. Is the $4,000 the entire profit this company made over the course of those 3 years? Based on these inconsistencies, I'm finding it hard to follow your story.<p>To start; IANAL so YMMV.<p>It sounds to me like you went in with different mentalities. You were a founder; he was an investor. I realize that from your perspective, "he didn't put as much time in" as you did; however, you agreed to give him some share of the company for his monetary investment. That said, it sounds like the valuation agreed to was $6,000 when he invested and that by contributing $3,000, he would own 50% of the company.<p>However, if he only invested $1,000, then he actually bought only 1/6th of the company, not 1/2. My calculations say you owe him approximately $1,680 which includes returning his initial investment and the profits from a 17% share of the company (which he really does own whether you like it or not).<p>All that said, if he can document actual material contributions to your products, he quite likely has a legitimate claim for a higher share.<p>The lesson here is NEVER do business in any form of partnership without a written agreement as to the ownership levels, roles, and responsibilities of each partner.
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dschobel超过 14 年前
<i>All agreements we had were via chat and voice and not in legal sheet.</i><p>Chat/email/voice are more than sufficient to establish a contract in the US legal system. Read the introductory "elements of a contract" section from here: <a href="http://www.expertlaw.com/library/business/contract_law.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.expertlaw.com/library/business/contract_law.html</a>
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Tyrannosaurs超过 14 年前
(Not a lawyer and this should not be taken as legal advice, just my two cents worth.)<p>It does sound like bluster. It's certainly not grand theft (which would be a criminal matter), it's a contractual dispute. When people start throwing around legal terms they don't understand I always suspect that they either aren't serious, or that they know so little that their intent is irrelevant as it's likely to change when they learn the reality of the situation, the likely costs and so on.<p>My guess is that if you made him an offer - possibly just 50% of profit to date - he'd accept and go, but what you need to make sure is that any deal you do with him makes clear that the payment is made in full and final settlement of the matter.<p>In the UK full and final settlement is a specific legal term (I'm guessing that there is a US equivalent) basically meaning that the matter is settled and the other party can't then return at a later date with a further claim. This should be stated clearly in the accompanying letter (make sure the letter and payment are signed for and you record all details) and also make it clear that by cashing the cheque he waives any right to further payment or claim against you or the company in relation to any business dealings you have had.<p>But the point others have made is valid - just because it's not worth him suing now don't assume it won't be worth it in the future.
hack_rohan超过 14 年前
I own the company at the moment i repeatedly request to form a u.s corporation with the money we got he was avoiding to do so bcuz he wanted to make sure we make 50-100K before we make any company which sounded fishy to me.
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rfrey超过 14 年前
Although I agree that nobody is going to sue anybody in this situation, I'm curious about the technical legalities.<p>Could the "new venture" be viewed by a U.S. court as a continuation of the old venture? Could the acceptance of the $1000 salary in the first two months be construed as a contract of some sort? Also, the OP says in a comment that he requested that a US corporation be formed, so there are probably emails to that effect. Would such a request be considered to mean there was a partnership in place already?<p>Again, I agree with other commenters, there will not be a lawsuit over $2000. But the 50% of the company could be enough incentive if you were successful enough, so the OP might want to get solid on where he stands. It sounds to me that there's a bit of a backstory, maybe enough to make a court look twice.
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lionhearted超过 14 年前
Well, there's two sides to every story. He fronted you cash on a project with some risk of it going nowhere, and he did contribute time as well. He's got some legitimate ownership claims.<p>Now, you feel like he's not worth what he's getting, and this happens. Actually, one of the most common reasons partnerships break down is because of perception of the other guy's work rate.<p>I'd look to negotiate a buyout for him. He does own some of the company. On your side of the story, it looks horribly unjust. But you know, there's his side of the story where he spends time thinking about the company, consulting with you, risks his money, etc. He's probably feeling like you're trying to screw him and that you're being terribly unfair as well.<p>Try to negotiate a buyout that includes him relinquishing all ownership of the company. He did put time and money into this and backed you with no guarantee of return - he's entitled to something. The court thing is a non-issue at this stage unless he's really vindictive, but it'll be like an ax hanging over your head forever if your project is successful, or you want to hire, or raise money, or anything else. Try to buy him out and go on your own way. When you negotiate, don't tell him how unfair it is, etc, etc. This just ticks people off without accomplishing anything. Just focus on how you don't think this is a good partnership any more, and you're sorry it didn't work out, and after thinking about it you'd like to buy him out, and then make a low offer and come up a bit.
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trevelyan超过 14 年前
You are acting horribly. You talk about this guy as your "former co-founder" when he is your co-founder. This is a guy who looked out for you when you needed help and chipped in money and effort to support the business in good faith. And not only are you screwing yourself by cheating him, but you are screwing your fellow countrymen. If there is ambiguity in your original agreement work it out in good faith.<p>If you are running the business and he is doing no work on it right now, it is reasonable for you to pay yourself a respectable salary before sending any profits back. Plenty of companies don't pay dividends. But unless you are eager to shoot yourself in the foot you need to send him an email apologizing for your behavior and putting things right.
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known超过 14 年前
Imagine yourself in his shoes.<p>You shared <i>risks</i> and <i>responsibilities</i> of the venture along with the money. Keeping aside the friction with the co-founder, you deserve 50% of the company.
brudgers超过 14 年前
&#62; <i>"500 USD for 6 months and also 2 - 4 hrs commitment everyday"</i><p>&#62; <i>"My co-founder paid for 2 months"</i><p>&#62; <i>"10-15 days avg 1-2 hrs on advicing"</i><p>Not a lawyer, but based on the post I would suspect that there is a straight forward argument under common law that the ex-cofounder was in breech of contract.
davidw超过 14 年前
&#62; All agreements we had were via chat and voice and not in legal sheet.<p>Sounds like the whole thing is pretty much screwed.<p>&#62; The company is a not us company but must of our customers are from u.s.<p>Who owns the company?
Kliment超过 14 年前
Sounds like he has no basis. Talk to a lawyer. You should be fine.
SHOwnsYou超过 14 年前
It costs tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars to sue someone residing in another country... That's if you can even find a lawyer to take the case against someone in a third world country.<p>If you feel you owe him more, give him what you think he is worth to buy him out. If you think you owe him nothing, then cut off communication from him.<p>He has to sue you in your country of residence so until you start hearing from local courts, I wouldn't worry.
notahacker超过 14 年前
Considering how little recourse he has to actually get money from you without spending far more in lawyer's fees than you're actually earning, I suspect he might be convinced to sign a document relinquishing any ownership stake in the company if he is offered that $1000 back...
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jkent超过 14 年前
It's difficult to sue in another country. I don't think he can stop you entering the US or dealing with US companies. Just don't respond to him and don't give him any money. Assume the company is over. Disclaimer: ianal.
iainr超过 14 年前
What was the 'agreements' you guys made? Was he to have 50% for his advice and money? Or was he meant to contribute as much time as you did? Any tips for us on how to avoid a situation like this would be great
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hack_rohan超过 14 年前
I send 1900 USD now he is telling 50% of any company i do is urs
kirpekar超过 14 年前
He's going to sue you? Haha, for $5000? Not going to happen. Just ignore him and move on.<p>BTW, don't let the word "grand" theft scare you. Any theft exceeding $400 is called "grand".
shareme超过 14 年前
ahem you have skills to create a biz worth 6k in income.<p>Your best option, state you are walking away form venture and that if he wants the 50% you owned to pay up..<p>Now, when you create the new one..get a lawyer involved and have things in writing.
appl3star超过 14 年前
kick him out! do not pay!
hack_rohan超过 14 年前
looking for advice from HN readers