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Clojure REBL [video]

205 点作者 jrsnyder超过 6 年前

18 条评论

slifin超过 6 年前
I need a Clojure job, their technology seems like it&#x27;s from the year 3000 and I&#x27;m over here in PHP land banging rocks together<p>Their idiomatic database can travel through time, they focus intently on composition, referential integrity, immutability to the database level<p>They have specs which can validate things typically better than types and they compose<p>They focus on shared protocols which gives them amazing leverage, like the internet works because we all cooperate via the http protocol<p>I&#x27;ve been looking quite closely at datomic recently and that database looks ducking magic<p>Now datafy and nav will give rise to generalised browsers of anything Clojure can touch, conceptually it&#x27;s kind of like my file system, my SQL browser, my web browser, my profilers, my debuggers and any number of other things I haven&#x27;t imagined, all merged into one
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robto超过 6 年前
I just finished watching, and I&#x27;m super excited about this idea. There&#x27;s been a lot of talk in the Clojure community about how to improve documentation, and then Rich comes along and thinks hard about it for a long time and then drops a general purpose data browser. I&#x27;m really excited by the possibilities this brings to the table.<p>&gt; This is design work. Thanks Rich.<p>Well said! It feels to me that the power of a whole language with simplicity as a core philosophy is now starting to snowball up some really powerful tooling - since small changes can create big improvements.<p>We&#x27;ve got some new developers at work who are learning Clojure and so I&#x27;ve been rewatching some old Rich Hickey videos (Hammock Driven Development) and it&#x27;s cool to see the payoff 7 years later of what he was talking about back then.
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slifin超过 6 年前
While we&#x27;re talking about this conference, rich hickey just changed how I think about domain modelling forever with this talk, released about an hour ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=YR5WdGrpoug" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=YR5WdGrpoug</a><p>Strongly recommend a watch particularly if you&#x27;re modelling something in a typed language
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emmanueloga_超过 6 年前
Cool stuff! HATEOAS [1] for REPLs?<p>&quot;A [REST] (REBL) client enters a [REST application] (REBL browser) through a [simple fixed URL] (initial EDN [2] data). [All] future actions the client may take are discovered within [resource representations] (metadata) returned [from the server]. The media types used for these representations, and the link relations they may contain, are standardized. The client transitions through application states by selecting from [the links within a representation] (the annotated data) or by manipulating the representation in other ways afforded by its media type. In this way, [RESTful] (REBL) interaction is driven by [hypermedia] (metadata), rather than out-of-band information.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;HATEOAS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;HATEOAS</a> , the one thing that makes REST REST but nobody implements in their &quot;RESTful APIs&quot;.<p>2: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;edn-format&#x2F;edn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;edn-format&#x2F;edn</a>
westoncb超过 6 年前
Glad to see more work being done on the general purpose data browser concept.<p>I&#x27;ve been spending occasional free moments working on one since 2014[0], and this is the first time I&#x27;ve come across something with any significant overlap in conception[1].<p>It still blows my mind that I can describe the concept to programmers (and&#x2F;or show a video demo) and have the most typical response be along the lines of, &quot;but what would you use it for?&quot; (To be fair though: this is certainly in part—though not totally—due to the particulars of the poor job I&#x27;ve done attempting to communicate the idea, e.g. by demoing visualizations of algorithms on <i>random</i> data.)<p>It would be easier to answer what you <i>wouldn&#x27;t</i> use it for. When is it <i>not</i> useful to see the data your code is operating on? When in the video he talked about having one monitor for the data browser and one for emacs, that made complete sense to me. I see writing programs in the future turning out that way: you get a dedicated, mostly passive display of the data your code is operating while you program.<p>It&#x27;s almost like we&#x27;re so trained at having to deal with invisible program data it ceases to be obvious that in building something whose fundamental goal is to transform data (i.e. computer programs), one would benefit enormously through the ability to see the data being transformed.<p>Prior to this the best way I had of describing the purpose was to point to the Chrome dev tools object explorer and Firefox&#x27;s console.table(...)[2]. But this is the first thing I&#x27;ve seen also taking on the &#x27;unifying&#x27; aspect of the project, based on—as was pointed out in the video—the fact that data tends to come in a limited number of shapes.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;symbolflux.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;avd" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;symbolflux.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;avd</a><p>[1] There are still significant differences though—for one thing mine is focused much more on time-evolution of data. Where he showed the quick display of a graph of a set of numeric values for instance, I&#x27;m building a corresponding feature but it would instead work with a single numeric variable and display a graph of its values over time.<p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;API&#x2F;Console&#x2F;table" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;API&#x2F;Console&#x2F;tab...</a>
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lsh超过 6 年前
This is very similar to my own work for the last many years, and I&#x27;m sad and delighted he&#x27;s managed to pull it off in such a clojure-native, slick looking way. Well done. I haven&#x27;t finished watching the video yet, but it&#x27;s a little deflating. Still though, if others had been doing this years ago I wouldn&#x27;t have been scratching that itch.
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_halgari超过 6 年前
From the license:<p>&gt; You may not use REBL for commercial use.
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0x445442超过 6 年前
Smalltalk has had this type of thing for years...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gtoolkit.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gtoolkit.com&#x2F;</a>
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abeltensor超过 6 年前
Wish he had released the tooling. The REBL system looks a bit like the smalltalk virtual machine mixed with elements of Elm&#x27;s time-traveling debugger. There has been a real need for serious error handling in clojure for a long time (since the stack traces and exceptions are borderline unintelligible). This thing makes it look much more user friendly.<p>They tried to fix the errors with Spec but honestly I don&#x27;t think that solution worked that well. Spec is great for generative testing and other solutions but no one wants to write specs for every single small little potential error that could happen.
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aidenn0超过 6 年前
What is &quot;not data&quot; that can be the result of eval; at first I thought he was talking about side effects, but 5 minutes after he first said that I&#x27;m still not sure what he was talking about.
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jrsnyder超过 6 年前
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;rebl.cognitect.com&#x2F;download.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;rebl.cognitect.com&#x2F;download.html</a>
agumonkey超过 6 年前
When clojure meets smalltalk
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armitron超过 6 年前
Given that this is pretty much an inferior version of the Pharo Glamorous Toolkit [1], which has been available for years, it is very disappointing to not see a reference&#x2F;attribution. Especially taking into account that the - pioneering - research happened in the Smalltalk camp. If I wanted to be cynical I would say that presenting half-assed re-implementations of good ideas found in non-popular projects (Smalltalk, Common Lisp) in an easily-digestible manner with a veneer of freshness, is very prevalent in the Clojure domain.<p>I find REBL to be inferior because it largely misses the &quot;moldable tool&quot; point of GT. REBL focuses on the data (almost solely one could say) but presents a rigid UI - other than the data-specific part - whilst GT allows _everything_ to be molded at runtime which is of course the better approach. GT obsessively focuses on the interplay between data and the person interacting with said data. In systems theory terms, person and data mesh together into cybernetic entanglement.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gtoolkit.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gtoolkit.com</a>
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bjconlan超过 6 年前
So is this like exploring the web via a browser using hateoas &amp; mime types? But instead exploring edn on rebl using clojure&#x27;s &#x27;new&#x27; data protocols? Feels old hat... But anything to shine a light on data oriented programming (and clojure sure is beautiful)
logistark超过 6 年前
I think is pretty cool, yes. But fix error messages please.
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joshlemer超过 6 年前
.
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black-tea超过 6 年前
I really, really like Clojure. I just wish I had something to use it for. I&#x27;ve done lots of Common Lisp development previously and REPL-based programming is just great. I can&#x27;t really do it in Python and it makes me sad.
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chedine超过 6 年前
OK yeah this looks good. Was expecting a tech demo but this is such a sales pitch glorifying a pretty common solution to a pretty common problem. The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don&#x27;t get. If it&#x27;s not data then what is it? Atleast what is it for the thing that&#x27;s presenting it? All these while the folks were flaunting how awesome the REPL experience has been and suddenly Stu gives a small intro on how painful it is to eval a code. Just to glorify how awesome this REBL wud be? . I generally love most talks from clj community but not this one.
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