"Please take this down and write your own book."

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down.<p>The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive.<p>I guess the takeaway is to always take a step back before responding when you feel attacked. Chances are you're not being attacked nearly as harshly as you think.

The worst part of this situation is how martinemde is portending himself to be a "translator" like from English to Spanish, ignorant of the fact that you even need permission to do that. <a href="http://twitter.com/martinemde" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/martinemde</a><p>Also its pretty crappy how the Ruby Protection Squad came to his rescue with blind hate for Zed throwing comments like "Wow didn't even know who Zed Shaw was, now the first thing I learned about him is that he's a total d-bag" - <a href="http://twitter.com/PeteTheSadPanda/status/598669095084033" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/PeteTheSadPanda/status/598669095084033</a><p>Yes Zed doesn't always say things gently, but what he did say was 100% truth. Regardless of if you like what he says you have to respect 1. the truth and 2. who was really in the wrong here.<p>Final note: this guy could have buried it by just deleting the whole repo, but left it up to seem like the "martyr" - that is what kills me the most.

Interestingly, Martin has now updated the readme <a href="https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way#readme" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way#readme</a><p>He concedes both of Zed's main points:<p>1. That he didn't have a legal right to "translate" the book<p>2. That "translating" the book from Python to Ruby didn't work all that well anyway<p>The rest of the message boils down to a complaint that Zed wasn't nice enough in his takedown request. While Zed could have phrased things more nicely, he wasn't especially rude given the context of clear plagiarism and copyright violation.

At some level, you have to love zed. He gives and gives to the world, and the world just craps on him.<p>Of course, I have a feeling that his personal brand isn't going to be helped by this exchange.

"I'm a fucking Engine Yard programmer for fuck sake." - what an arrogant statement.

Love the entitlement evident in his reply, "I'm a fucking Engine Yard programmer for fuck sake. We promote mongrel as a stable deployment stack" - does he think the fact that they promote zed's work means it's okay to ignore zed's rights regarding his own work?<p>Also, how could anyone take issue with the maintainer of <a href="https://github.com/martinemde/dicks" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/martinemde/dicks</a> and <a href="http://dicks.heroku.com" rel="nofollow">http://dicks.heroku.com</a> ?

But honestly Zed, the web is considered "public domain" and you should be happy I just didn't "lift" your whole book and put my name on it!

Interesting. On the page about the book[1], Zed also links to How To Think Like a Computer Scientist, another popular book for learning Python.<p>Allen Downey was the first author on that book, but initially he wrote it in Java:<p>"I released the book under the GNU Free Documentation License, which allows users to copy, modify, and distribute the book.<p>What happened next is the cool part. Jeff Elkner, a high school teacher in Virginia, adopted my book and translated it into Python. He sent me a copy of his translation, and I had the unusual experience of learning Python by reading my own book."[2]<p>It's funny that the same thing is happening here, but Zed has a very different reaction than Allen's.<p>[1]: <a href="http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index" rel="nofollow">http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index</a> [2]: <a href="http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book001.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book001.html</a>

Regardless of whether Zed's tone in the first post was too harsh or not, I think everything from "Guys like you are the reason I stopped doing Ruby" onwards was just fanning the flames unnecessarily.

This was originally posted by martinemde looking for support and then flagged down here: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1873881" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1873881</a>

Drama!<p>Seriously though, everyone should be aware that "free as in beer" and "free as in speech" are not the same thing. And they should be aware of which case applies.

Please see the README on the front page of the project with my update.<p><a href="https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way</a><p>I've calmed a bit since the original postings. I can see why he was upset and I know that the right thing to do was to remove the book. I had good intentions and I did this out of homage, not to steal or claim any credit.<p>I've always been a fan of Zed's work. I will continue to be despite getting defensive about this.

Zed should have sent a DMCA notice to github.

I think Zed's approach reflects an attitude like 'I shouldn't have to hold your hand re:copyright.'<p>I'm guessing Zed's rancor isn't <i>just</i> about this incident, but the 'net-wide confusion about copyright vs cc copyright vs gpl vs whatever, particularly among the newer generation of web developers (like me). I am sympathetic to his feeling of "I shouldn't even have to tell you this."

There's faults on both sides. The guy is clearly in the wrong by failing to follow the copyright restrictions, but it was probably an honest mistake. Since he's spending to much time on the book, he's probably a fan of Zed's work. And he may be thinking he's adding value to the book. On the other side, Zed was completely within his rights to ask the guy to take repository down, but didn't need to make any assumptions about the guy's intentions or "class".

For me the most interesting part was reading this, pondering about text as medium that lacks a lot of - erm - subtext _and_ I guess it's especially interesting if english is not your native language. That by itself usually leads to "wait a minute, what is the author trying to say here" moments more often.<p>What I mean: Write german and I tend to interpret a lot more - I assume that I _know_ the language really well and therefor just _know_ what you're trying to say here. Maybe it's an advantage to read most of my internet stuff in english: Less "Someone's wrong on the internet" moments and more "Did I get this right" reflection.<p>On-Topic: I respect Zed's work, tried the book recently and liked that quite a lot either. I do wonder if the tone was necessary though: Except for the "WTF? I didn't _meant_ to violate copyright" I couldn't read anything insulting in the author's comments, while "lacking class" and "I left ruby because of people like you" is - personal.<p>Yes, it was wrong. Others commented that he could even hired a lawyer (seriously? For a no-profit, partly done, public github project? Overkill?), but I really think this could've been solved in private, easily, without much hassle.<p>For me, for the most part, the original author sounds/reads like a real, authentic (ex-?) fan of Zed..

This is Zeeed Shaaaaw!!!<p>I have never met the guy, but I surely hope that I get the privilege some day, even if he just picks on me and tells me that my work is worthless piece of junk and that if it implodes in a second it would be a service to the world - because that might be single most insightful and sincere analysis one might receive.<p>Kudos to anyone with a pair, that is capable of speaking their mind in today's "politically correct" world ridden with hypocrisy.

Why are a lot of people missing stuff like this: "have some class and use your own words and write your own book" and this "Guys like you are the reason I stopped doing Ruby"?<p>I agree with Zed that the idea was borderline useless since both languages have their ways and a direct translation lacks focus anyway. I also agree that it's Zed's work, and he granted use of his work with a license which doesn't allow this type of derivate work. Zed was totally in the right here, and Martin was totally in the wrong.<p>That being said, that doesn't automagically grant Zed the right to be a douche and insult the guy, specially since not only he complied with Zed's request, but tries to explain that he did so in good faith. There's no 'tone' here, it was obviously an insulting and condescending attack towards Martin. A simple "Hey what you're doing is not permitted by my license, take it down" or "You're infringing my copyright, take this down" would have been more than enough. The reality is that Zed loves to pick a fight and demean people, and in this case Martin made a mistake in good faith and did not deserve such disdain.

The "good riddance" posts really sadden me. I've generally found the Ruby community to be a great place, and then comments like these come along...

This is clearly not plagiarism. At no point did the translator take credit for the original work. There is a definition for plagiarism; it involves taking credit for someone else's original work.<p>Zed would probably have done better by simply quoting the license and asking him to take it down (because of copywrite infringement) instead of incorrectly accusing him of plagiarism (which implies he was doing the translation in bad faith).

Nobody's going to notice this comment now, but Martin Edme has posted a formal apology.<p>Zed, it seems, will not apologize, based on recent twitter updates:<p>Hilarious hypocrisy how I'm called a "dick", "asshole", "d-bag", and "cock" because I said someone should have some "class".<p>33 minutes ago via web [1]<p>[1] <a href="http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/774156132024320" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/774156132024320</a>

Wow. There are people who will steal* and then have the guts to argue they are right.<p>I did not read LPTHW before this.<p>Now I read it and it's indeed hard work.<p>Wow.

Although I understand the author's desire to not have his work copied, I think he stepped across the line when he used a personal attack:<p>"Guys like you are the reason I stopped doing Ruby."

It must suck to have your everyday online activities tracked, and your character traits debated at length by strangers.<p>Look at the title of this HN post, pure celebrity drama-bait.

Why do people take the time to digitally bicker with veteran trolls? We're all professionals, this isn't something you want your name attached to on the "nothing is ever forgotten" internet.

Wow. I really want to be on Zed's side here, but while his message is 99% legit, his delivery leaves something to be desired.

If the guy credited him and Zed's book was free online, then I really think Zed is doing the coding world a disservice here...

I'm probably gonna get downvoted, but now I'm quite sure that web really IS public domain. We just have to state it explicitly. From now on gonna use public domain license on any public work I produce. Who's with me?

Disclaimer: I'm commenting on this thread only to help Zed generate more publicity/buzz for his book, which was surely the reason why he was a dick to Martin about it :)<p>People understand clearly when someone like "The Situation" acts like a dick to gain notoriety, but many programmers seem not to be able to understand when a programmer does it. This is very effective schtick, and Zed has inspired a few others of late.<p>Bottom line: Zed is a nice guy and Martin is a nice guy.

Someone, please tell me where there is a copyright notice anywhere on <a href="http://learnpythonthehardway.org/" rel="nofollow">http://learnpythonthehardway.org/</a> or on the PDF <a href="http://learnpythonthehardway.org/static/LearnPythonTheHardWay.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://learnpythonthehardway.org/static/LearnPythonTheHardWa...</a><p>If he's so fanatical about copyright, why can't he post something about it?<p>The culture developers are used to on github is forking people's work and tweaking it (while still giving attribution to the author). It's not totally shocking that someone would accidentally apply this philosophy to this book. Telling someone he has "no class" for doing this is just being a dick.<p>But then again, its Zed D Shaw. He earned that middle name.