TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

237 点作者 tonyztan超过 6 年前

17 条评论

asabjorn超过 6 年前
Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way.<p>Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is;<p>1) explicitly anti free-speech<p>2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reasons, for things posted anywhere including leaked private messages)<p>3) their rules are enforced in a subjective manner by design<p>Considering that they have banned many people that disagree with progressive PC ideology, which seems to be a moving target of increasing religious [2] fervor, I can&#x27;t see why anyone would trust their platform at this point and rely on it to build their income.<p>Even progressives might like the so-called TERFs fall on the wrong side of the party-line at some point, so I can&#x27;t see how anyone can trust their platform as a source of income. Unless you of cause love staking your income on the arbitrary whims of the ideologues at Patreon.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Hv7hvZee-PQ&amp;feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Hv7hvZee-PQ&amp;feature=youtu.be</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;areomagazine.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;18&#x2F;postmodern-religion-and-the-faith-of-social-justice&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;areomagazine.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;18&#x2F;postmodern-religion-and-...</a>
评论 #18759359 未加载
评论 #18758298 未加载
评论 #18756839 未加载
评论 #18756847 未加载
评论 #18759150 未加载
评论 #18756852 未加载
beezischillin超过 6 年前
The whole backlash against Patreon didn&#x27;t start now as they&#x27;ve done stuff like what that person on Twitter complains about but it culminated in the strange circumstances involving the banning of one Carl Benjamin, aka. Sargon of Akkad. People are upset about this, even outside of politics not because they support or even agree with Carl Benjamin but because of what Patreon did, and still does.<p>They banned the guy over a 10 month old livestream on an obscure channel where he criticised the alt-right using their own vernacular. If you ignore context, then sure, it is &quot;hate-speech&quot;. The issue here is, however, that Patreon explicitly said that they only enforce their policies on their own platform in their terms. (Jack Conte said the same thing, explicitly on a podcast.) And yet, they suspended a creator, without warning and shoddily still allowed new people to pledge money to him. For other creators this does shows that their livelihoods can be shut down any time, any moment, for any reason, on a whim of someone on that &quot;Trust &amp; Safety Council&quot;.<p>Let us not mention the blatant hate-speech they allow _ON THEIR OWN PLATFORM_, even among their top 20 creators.<p>If you entrust your livelihood to a platform, you want someone neutral and someone who takes the time to notify you about changes related to your income, even if it&#x27;s via automated messages.
notafraudster超过 6 年前
It&#x27;s possible this is an account suspension (i.e. &quot;We don&#x27;t want you to have an account anymore because you do XYZ&quot;), but it looks more like a fraud &#x2F; financial flag (i.e. &quot;We think someone has broken into your account and we&#x27;re holding your funds temporarily.&quot;) As evidence, they still contact him about new subscribers and his page is still online, which it isn&#x27;t in other cases when Patreon suspends an account.<p>Still an indictment of their communications process, and still a financial risk to the person, but it&#x27;s a little odd that literally all the replies in that Twitter thread are people talking about Milo Yiannopoulous. Even if Patreon decided it wanted to go all in on hosting controversial political figures, they&#x27;d presumably still have some kind of fraud checks, so the points really do seem to be unrelated.
评论 #18757246 未加载
blhack超过 6 年前
This same story played out 10 or so years ago with Wikileaks, PayPal, and major card processors and banks.<p>The sad realization was that private companies can control who gets to speak very effectively.<p>Lots of people hoped cryptocurrency would fix this, but so far it hasn&#x27;t.
评论 #18757109 未加载
评论 #18756637 未加载
评论 #18757669 未加载
评论 #18756442 未加载
manfredo超过 6 年前
Patreon sounds like something relatively easy to replicate. Effectively every utility implements what patron provides. It&#x27;s essentially just scheduling recurring payments, with a discussion forum attached. More behavior like what we&#x27;ve been seeing Patreon do lately, and I can see larger creators shifting to hosing their own patronage services. Essentially the same reason why EA, Blizzard, and even more niche game publishers like Matrix Games, Slithrine, and X Plane host their own game purchasing and delivery services: greater control and no cut taken away.<p>Perhaps a more feasible and maybe probable approach is for another service like WordPress or SquareSpace to offer patronage functionality (as in, offering recurring payments and exclusive contents for patrons).
评论 #18756161 未加载
评论 #18755776 未加载
评论 #18755735 未加载
评论 #18755753 未加载
评论 #18756238 未加载
评论 #18756228 未加载
评论 #18756104 未加载
评论 #18759808 未加载
评论 #18755814 未加载
评论 #18756079 未加载
mirimir超过 6 年前
Being someone who pays ~zero attention to Twitter, and very little to &quot;politics&quot;, I had no clue that there was a shitstorm happening over &quot;censorship&quot; by Patreon. (Although I think that it probably <i>is</i> censorship, I&#x27;m not sure, so scare quotes.)<p>Anyway, so searx.me shows me a NY Times article from today.[0] And it contains these ironic bits:<p>&gt; Patreon takes a highly personal approach to policing speech. While Google and Facebook use algorithms as a first line of defense for questionable content, Patreon has human moderators. <i>They give warnings and reach out to talk to offenders, presenting options for “education” and “reform.”</i> Some activists hope this will become a model for a better and kinder internet. [emphasis added]<p>&gt; <i>“There are no automated takedowns,” Mr. Conte said.</i> “As a creator myself dealing with these big tech platforms and getting an automated takedown notice, there’s no appeals process. You can’t talk to a human. And I never want to do that.” [emphasis added]<p>Funny, that.<p>Edit: And if this is truly a &quot; fraud &#x2F; financial flag&quot;, wouldn&#x27;t one expect to see the same level of outreach?<p>0) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;24&#x2F;technology&#x2F;patreon-hate-speech-bans.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;24&#x2F;technology&#x2F;patreon-hate-s...</a>
评论 #18757127 未加载
xte超过 6 年前
With modern &quot;web platforms&quot; we are not customers but only lemons to be juiced and dropped, puppets, slaves. Nothing more.<p>Now think REALLY well about our future, especially imaging at actual trend a future with a banking system lead by big of IT instead of banks and of course usable only via proprietary services.<p>Think about the past when we have bankbooks with any transaction written and signed by the bank in <i>our</i> hand vs today when we only have to relay on bank&#x27;s servers itself. Think about how you can pay with physical money and how you need to pay with electronic one, especially observe the hard dependencies that both systems have.<p>Add to the soup the fact that power corrupt and interdependence force cooperation instead of wars.<p>Add to the soup the fact that in the past knowledge generally used to be in universities, so in public hand while now it&#x27;s mostly in super-big-corps secret hands.<p>Add to the soup the fact that when we totally depend on something, including basic things like food supply&#x2F;production&#x2F;distribution there is no need of strong power to create a dictatorship simply because people can&#x27;t live without the product of de-facto &quot;dictator&quot;...
RomanPushkin超过 6 年前
GoFundMe also suspended my account this way in the past. No response or explanation for more than 6 months.
DanielBMarkham超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m not going to focus on the free speech part of this, or even the purpose of art. It&#x27;s gotten to the point that watching well-funded companies go down this road is just painful. All of that money and education. Such idiots. I&#x27;m embarrassed to be part of the same tech community with them. Go buy a copy of On Liberty and take a time-out until you grok it. (Rawls can wait until later)<p>Instead, I&#x27;m curious as to a few other things.<p>1. This looks prima facia like fraud. You say one thing, the TOS says one thing, you do another -- and you take money while acting that way. If that&#x27;s not fraud, I don&#x27;t understand the term.<p>2. As I noted in a recent essay, the way that software generalizes communication, combined with a system&#x2F;platform that has massive adoption, always leads to a bad place even when this has nothing to do with politics or content. Even if we get past the speech and fraud part of the problem, we still have a huge problem. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiny-giant-books.com&#x2F;1.html?EntryId=recEUbufzhAvph8K1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiny-giant-books.com&#x2F;1.html?EntryId=recEUbufzhAvph8K1</a><p>3. Are we a bulletin board or a publisher? I understand these companies want to take both stances simultaneously, and that the law allows this, but heck if it makes any sense to me how it&#x27;s going to work out well. Yes, it&#x27;s legal, but that doesn&#x27;t make it any more tenable. Algorithms don&#x27;t amount to magic sauce, no matter how much you wave your hands around.<p>4. We are in need of anti-trust legislation when it comes to the <i>marketplace of ideas</i>. On the net, either there is no such thing as a public square or some legislative intervention is required. I don&#x27;t think arguing that there&#x27;s no such thing as a public square works for rational observers of the marketplace. Sounded pretty cool ten years ago, sure. And perhaps most of the public might still buy it. But its days are numbered.<p>Interesting place we have ended up. I note that &quot;interesting&quot; can have terrible connotations.
anhonestopinion超过 6 年前
Opinion: first big enough country that will force neutrality of payment processors will get all content creators, startups and the trillions in sound money and cultural value that come with them
Havoc超过 6 年前
Trying hard to emulate PayPal behaviour :&#x2F;
aestetix超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m unclear whether this is due to an account being suspended, or an account on hold due to some kind of fraud detection.<p>I&#x27;d say the one clear indictment here is Patreon&#x27;s absolute shit communications. Traditional companies have a phone number you can call to talk to a human and sort everything out, but that seems to have gone the way of the Dodo, replaced with a way less effective but cheaper solution.
mirimir超过 6 年前
HN may have come to the rescue again. OP got his account restored on the 24th at 4:48 PM PST:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DvQ75bUX4AMLblW.jpg:large" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DvQ75bUX4AMLblW.jpg:large</a>
kidoodle超过 6 年前
Apparently J. Peterson is building something to solve this problem.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GWz1RDVoqw4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GWz1RDVoqw4</a><p>I wonder how they handle the payment part.
评论 #18757944 未加载
ploggingdev超过 6 年前
Like someone else suggested, this is likely a case of automated flagging by fraud detection systems, but it does not excuse such terrible communication on Patreon&#x27;s part.<p>I have been following the recent Patreon backlash with interest, which I think was triggered by Patreon banning a youtuber who goes by Sargon of Akkad for using the phrase &quot;white [n-word]&quot; in a youtube video. Sam Harris, who was one of the highest earning people n Patreon, closed his patreon account and explained why he did so [0]. Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin (popular internet personalities who spoke out against Patreon&#x27;s trust and safety policies) are planning on launching an alternative [1] to Patreon that is more pro free speech. It would be interesting to see if they manage to build a free speech alternative since the problem usually is that the worst elements on the internet flock to it before regular people and the site&#x2F;service will be labeled a hub for nazis&#x2F;white supremacists and no bank&#x2F;financial institution will want to do business with such a service. It also sounds like companies such as Stripe and Paypal can do little even if they wanted to support a free speech alternative to Patreon, since that would cause issues with their payment networks.<p>I am interested in learning a little about how the financial infrastructure works (banks, payment processors, regulations), who decides what types of service should not be allowed even if it&#x27;s legal and what it would take to build a free speech alternative to Patreon, so if there are some good resources that you know about, please share them in the comments.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SamHarrisOrg?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SamHarrisOrg?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctw...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jordanbpeterson&#x2F;status&#x2F;1077244291125174275" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jordanbpeterson&#x2F;status&#x2F;10772442911251742...</a>
评论 #18756648 未加载
评论 #18756833 未加载
mirimir超过 6 年前
I wonder if anyone relevant at Patreon reads HN.
评论 #18756677 未加载
floatingatoll超过 6 年前
Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today. By the time they read this thread on Wednesday, it will be far too late for them to fend off the mob. They deserve one business day to reply, and they won&#x27;t have had that until Wednesday at the _earliest_. Be kind.<p>EDIT: If your reply is &quot;they should reply 24&#x2F;7&#x2F;365&quot;, ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overtime pay; notice that essentially all US businesses do not staff support on Christmas; and then reconsider your reply.
评论 #18756187 未加载
评论 #18756169 未加载
评论 #18759520 未加载
评论 #18756447 未加载
评论 #18756360 未加载
评论 #18757065 未加载