TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Is there hope for IPv6?

198 点作者 danyork超过 6 年前

37 条评论

hn_throwaway_99超过 6 年前
I hope (but am skeptical) that folks look at the overall failure of ipv6 from a deployment perspective to understand the root causes of why it failed (some may think &quot;failure&quot; is too strong a word, but I remember v6 being &quot;just around the corner&quot; in 2000, yet in 2019 I&#x27;m still connecting to a GCP database with v4).<p>Coming up with a solution that looks like a huge technological advancement, with no real respect for the motivations or incentives of those who&#x27;ll need to implement and use it, is a fairly common occurrence in tech and something engineers should be trained to guard against.
评论 #18833362 未加载
评论 #18837914 未加载
评论 #18834152 未加载
评论 #18832704 未加载
评论 #18836727 未加载
评论 #18836725 未加载
评论 #18832637 未加载
krylon超过 6 年前
I have been getting native IPv6 from my ISP for nearly six years now. It is not quite as cool as it could be, because I get assigned a new prefix every 24 hours, but still, IPv6 is there, and it &quot;just works&quot;.<p>When I connect to machines on my home network in any way involving avahi&#x2F;zeroconf, the machines talk to each other via IPv6 by default.<p>At work, it&#x27;s a different story. I have drifted from a sysadmin&#x2F;helpdesk role into a programmer position, so that is no longer my concern. When it was, however, there was little incentive to use IPv6 - everything worked and continues to work just fine with IPv4, and sometimes there were even some rather esoteric problems with Windows&#x27; &quot;Network Location Awareness&quot; when IPv6 was enabled.
评论 #18832920 未加载
评论 #18836372 未加载
评论 #18833002 未加载
评论 #18837919 未加载
kevinoid超过 6 年前
These are some interesting insights into the economic incentives on the deployment side. I&#x27;m looking forward to reading the report.<p>It is also interesting to consider the incentives (or lack thereof) for IPv6 peering. The fact that HE and Cogent haven&#x27;t resolved their peering dispute from 2009 suggests to me that there is insufficient incentive (particularly from their customers) to do so, even when there are obvious practical effects. (I can&#x27;t reach openstreetmap.org via an HE IPv6 tunnel even now.)<p>Perhaps the technical effectiveness of Happy Eyeballs and other backwards-compatibility mechanisms necessarily reduces incentives for improving IPv6?
7e超过 6 年前
This chart: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;en&#x2F;ipv6&#x2F;statistics.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;en&#x2F;ipv6&#x2F;statistics.html</a><p>... reports a steadily increasing adoption rate for IPv6. Is that rate somehow too slow? It currently stands at 25% of Google users.
评论 #18837371 未加载
评论 #18833174 未加载
ctime超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m curious on how the non-contiguous ipv6 [1] usage will eventually affect the use of the TCAM in vendor hardware. It seems that most TCAM being developed today will never be able to store anywhere near the unfathomably large amount of possible address prefixes being carved - and of course the prefixes are only are going to get more and more fragmented.<p>Right now the typically default behavior for switches&#x2F;routers that encounter the exhaustion is to summarize prefixes with a shortened prefix and (possibly) punt the evaluation to the general purpose CPU (example here[1]) - which suffice it to say, introduces a host of security concerns. This means, as a security engineer, in situations where complex&#x2F;large ACLs exist, I need to be aware of and control how IPv6 TCAM exhaustion failure modes work and plan that eventually my hardware TCAM may be exhausted and fail in a spectacularly bad way.<p>Or, I just ignore IPv6 almost entirely and just don&#x27;t have the problem (cleverheadtap.jpg)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.iana.org&#x2F;assignments&#x2F;ipv6-unicast-address-assignments&#x2F;ipv6-unicast-address-assignments.xhtml" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.iana.org&#x2F;assignments&#x2F;ipv6-unicast-address-assign...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;community.cisco.com&#x2F;t5&#x2F;switching&#x2F;tcam-utilization-issue&#x2F;td-p&#x2F;2904935" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;community.cisco.com&#x2F;t5&#x2F;switching&#x2F;tcam-utilization-is...</a>
评论 #18834050 未加载
magila超过 6 年前
What we really need is a killer app that requires end-to-end connectivity. Users have little reason to care about IPv6 right now because the existing ecosystem of services has evolved around the constraints of NAT. As IPv6 deployment expands hopefully we will reach a point where some great new application becomes economically viable.<p>My biggest fear is such an application not emerging quickly enough. Without an imperative from users for end-to-end connectivity there&#x27;s a risk that IPv6 networks which somehow break it become entrenched. If that happens we are back to the old chicken-and-egg situation: Users don&#x27;t care because there&#x27;s no app and there&#x27;s no app because the network is broken and operators don&#x27;t care.
评论 #18832795 未加载
评论 #18832745 未加载
评论 #18832773 未加载
评论 #18832686 未加载
csears超过 6 年前
What if we started charging a small but slowly increasing annual fee for each IPv4 address? And with the proceeds ICANN starts buying back IPv4 blocks and permanently retiring them.
评论 #18832575 未加载
评论 #18832617 未加载
geofft超过 6 年前
This article completely fails to mention that IPv6 is not just an extension of the address space but a whole different worldview about how to run a network:<p>- IPv6-to-IPv6 NAT has only been accepted very recently and very begrudgingly. Whatever your views are on NAT, the fact is that lots of people have network designs that rely on it, and if you want them to stop, you&#x27;re now asking them to couple two major transitions, which is a significant economic cost. (Option 3 in this article is IPv6-to-IPv4 NAT, assuming that the public internet will indefinitely be IPv4; it&#x27;s noteworthy that none of their options ever envision the public internet becoming IPv6.)<p>- IPv6 recommends the use of its own scheme, SLAAC, for address assignment, with DHCPv6 being also very recent and poorly implemented - for instance, Android has no DHCPv6 support and plans to never implement it <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.google.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;android&#x2F;issues&#x2F;detail?id=32621" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.google.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;android&#x2F;issues&#x2F;detail?id=32621</a> . There&#x27;s also a &quot;stateless DHCPv6&quot; for communicating DNS servers but using SLAAC for addressing; without it, SLAAC expects you to use a scheme called RDNSS to communicate your DNS servers, which is also not 100% supported. So you now need to spend engineering time supporting all of these options because some devices only support one and some only support the other, and you need to come up with network designs that work with both SLAAC (which has strong opinions on how you use &#x2F;64s) and DHCPv6 (which doesn&#x27;t).<p>- IPv6 doesn&#x27;t use ARP, on the grounds that it&#x27;s a layering violation, a separate layer-3 protocol that runs directly on top of Ethernet but talks about IP addresses. Instead, IPv6 has a clever scheme for using multicast to transfer the information that ARP would convey, by having machines join multicast groups based on their MAC address. This works very, very poorly with networks that aren&#x27;t designed to support significant multicast load - for instance an attempted deployment of IPv6 caused packet storms in the MIT Computer Science and AI Lab&#x27;s network for about a week because their switches were falling back from multicast to broadcast: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.bimajority.org&#x2F;2014&#x2F;09&#x2F;05&#x2F;the-network-nightmare-that-ate-my-week&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.bimajority.org&#x2F;2014&#x2F;09&#x2F;05&#x2F;the-network-nightmare...</a> So a working IPv6 deployment involves upgrading all of your hardware to hardware that has good support for multicast, which is also a significant economic cost.<p>- Various protocols like Teredo and ISATAP attempt to set up tunneled IPv6 routing in preference to IPv4 routing, making it hard to do a staged deployment, especially if you have BYOD on your network. For bonus points, because they&#x27;re tunneled, you get different <i>and possibly worse</i> routes over IPv6, making debugging harder. So that&#x27;s a cost in additional L1 and L2 support.<p>If someone had come up with an IPv7 that&#x27;s just &quot;We extended IPv4 to 128-bit addresses and we left ARP and DHCP and NAT and everything alone,&quot; people would have switched to it already. But the powers that be are drowning in the second-system effect and nobody wants all the features they added.
评论 #18832945 未加载
评论 #18834749 未加载
评论 #18833052 未加载
评论 #18841835 未加载
评论 #18833696 未加载
xvilka超过 6 年前
IPv6 is already a success in mobile and IoT, and in countries that matter in economical sense. The rest will follow automatically because they have no choice. More worrying issues are BGP and SS7 reliance in global networks, and there are no viable alternatives on the horizon.
评论 #18834324 未加载
ah-超过 6 年前
Funny how it&#x27;s posted on www.internetgovernance.org, which doesn&#x27;t support ipv6.
评论 #18836739 未加载
the_mitsuhiko超过 6 年前
The weird thing is that on some countries IPv4 only turned effectively into the premium offering. This is for instance the case in Austria where you generally have the option of ipv4 or ipv6 with dslite or worse only.<p>All new contracts are ipv6 and the only way to get to ipv4 is via customer support. However right now ipv4 gives you the better experience.
评论 #18832833 未加载
评论 #18832664 未加载
sliken超过 6 年前
39% of Google&#x27;s traffic is IPv6, clearly there&#x27;s no hope.
评论 #18833793 未加载
评论 #18836745 未加载
Pxtl超过 6 年前
Imho IPV6 failed because of a failure to make DNS usable to non-specialists.<p>If every device on every network could be assigned a domain name, then we&#x27;d never have to know what underlying addressing scheme exists.<p>My ISP has a name. I have an account with them. Every device on my network has a name.<p>There&#x27;s no good reason I don&#x27;t have<p>Device.accountName.pub.ispName.tld<p>Bound to the phone I&#x27;m writing this on right now.<p>But because that doesn&#x27;t exist, users are still used to screwing with MAC and IP addresses just to set up port forwarding and all that other nonsense.<p>And so we have to care about IP addresses. And so we&#x27;re stuck on ipv4.
评论 #18833368 未加载
krkoch超过 6 年前
We tried setting up automatic DNS records on dhcpv6 and slaac on our company lan, and we just weren&#x27;t able (opnsense). We have ipv6 working, but it still doesn&#x27;t &quot;feel finished&quot;.
vermontdevil超过 6 年前
My university (100k students) is transitioning to ipv6. But it’s a long term roll out. I have both static ipv4 and ipv6 for my work station. They tell me the ipv4 will go away in near future.
amaccuish超过 6 年前
Can anyone explain to me. So right now for v4, we have NAT, and several ways to get a port open and pointed at us. With v6, every device has its own public address, like how the internet was intended. And as sensible network admins, we should have a default deny incoming firewall policy for v6 traffic. But surely that will prevent these &quot;end-to-end&quot; apps from working, and now they don&#x27;t even have protocols like UPnP to bypass the firewall and request ports to be opened?
评论 #18835895 未加载
vjeux超过 6 年前
Facebook publishes some stats about worldwide ipv6 usage that they observe: facebook.com&#x2F;ipv6
dennisgorelik超过 6 年前
A couple of months ago voted for IPv4 by paying $1&#x2F;month for every IPv4 IP address on my new server.<p>128 IP addresses total. That is well over $1k&#x2F;year voting power.<p>The reason for that purchase is that IPv4 addresses represent internet reputation while crawling websites.<p>I am not interested in getting IPv6 at all.<p>How much did you pay for IPv6?
评论 #18854167 未加载
dghughes超过 6 年前
I like IPv6 it can actually be easier to set up stuff instead of using IPv4 for example OSPF. But I find IPv6 is not as intuitive as IPv4 just looking at an address in IPv4 vs IPv6. You can create new networks for IPv4 pretty easily just by eyeball but not IPv6. At least I can&#x27;t.
评论 #18833724 未加载
评论 #18833587 未加载
评论 #18833006 未加载
sverige超过 6 年前
&gt; &quot;Given that fundamental constraint, there are only three basic choices for network operators:<p>...<p>3. Run native IPv6 among compatible parts of their own network with some kind of tunneling or translation (i.e., converter technologies in economics) at the boundaries to make it compatible with IPv4<p>Among these viable alternatives, we show that dual stack will never get us across the finish line; it is not economical. It is the third category that shows promise for some growing networks.&quot;<p>So, basically a more complex version of NAT is what they&#x27;re proposing for the &quot;transition&quot; from IPv4 to 6. Am I the only one who remembers that IPv6 was supposed to eliminate NAT?
评论 #18832679 未加载
mikeytown2超过 6 年前
If a major player like GitHub doesn&#x27;t support ipv6 then ??? Also a lot of vps providers do ipv6 incorrectly so some form; vultr seems to be the only one I&#x27;ve found that does it well.
lkdjjdjjjdskjd超过 6 年前
I really want to enable ipv6 on my web site, but then I heard horror stories about connections failing if not all routers between the client and the server have ipv6 enabled.<p>Apparently at least for a while, browsers would not try the same request again via ipv4, so the site would simply be unreachable.<p>Perhaps browsers have become smarter about that, but it really makes me wary about enabling ipv6. I have no immediate benefit besides &quot;doing the right thing&quot;, and some possible downsides.
评论 #18840793 未加载
lurkinghere超过 6 年前
IPv6 is so 90s. Put a pink lens and design a global network where are good people. Netizens as were called.<p>Give an IPv6 with last digits of the MAC address is unacceptable today. Unique IP per device maybe dangerous.<p>Today tracking exists and is smart, some organizations are logging bittorrent activity. People buys VPN, right?<p>Really I love shared IPv4 at my University (although they have a &#x2F;16). Maybe there are thousands of devices behind. Google Ads becomes crazy. I only want privacy.
AndrewKemendo超过 6 年前
The argument seems pretty straightforward and is a classic collective action problem:<p>v4 isn&#x27;t expensive enough (in all cost measurements) to justify switching to v6. Once that flips, when there aren&#x27;t any more v4 addresses then everyone will move there.<p>It sounds like the costs of v6 are so high that we basically need complete saturation of the v4 IP ranges, and then a market that trades IPs at a higher friction&#x2F;cost rate than than implementing v6.
spullara超过 6 年前
There is no hope. Without backwards compatibility with IPv4 addresses we will always have IPv4. The specification was a complete failure.
评论 #18834722 未加载
Animats超过 6 年前
Is this US-centric or worldwide? In particular, does it include China?
评论 #18833656 未加载
HankB99超过 6 年前
Require that porn sites use only IPV6 addresses. Or provide some free benefit to people who access those sites using IPV6. I&#x27;m pretty sure adoption will surge. It worked for VHS.
Bombthecat超过 6 年前
The main problem is :it is too easy to ignore. You can build around all of the limitations of ipv4. Which makes ipv6 useless &#x2F; not needed in the first place.
bartwe超过 6 年前
As a gamedeveloper it hasn&#x27;t been particularly easy or clear how to make connections between users over v6, it is enough of a mess with v4 tbh
hkt超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been saying it for years: IPv4+ would be fine. Just add more bits to addresses (maybe twice as many octets) and dual stack that instead.
seanlinmt超过 6 年前
“No one uses IPv6 only.&quot;<p>I had a go using only IPv6 recently. What surprised me was the site that broke it for me. Github.com.
qwerty456127超过 6 年前
Perhaps I just misunderstand IPv6 but I prefer IPv4 with NAT and temporarily leased public router address for privacy and security reasons. AFAIK IPv6 means every device gets assigned a stable unique address everybody can identify and reach it by. And I have never seen a SOHO WiFi router that would support IPv6 anyway (perhaps latest fancy expensive ones do).
评论 #18832634 未加载
评论 #18832532 未加载
评论 #18832523 未加载
评论 #18832524 未加载
评论 #18832538 未加载
gweinberg超过 6 年前
Let&#x27;s just skip to IPv7.
Ericson2314超过 6 年前
Maybe we need to tax IPv4 addresses. Once again, markets suck at dealing with scarce resources. Tax externalities or ditch capitalism, you choose society!
rawoke083600超过 6 年前
how about ipv5 and we just add an extra .255 ? Im sure our kids wilk figure out a better solution... ?
评论 #18832734 未加载
评论 #18832672 未加载
Proven超过 6 年前
I always disable IPv6 at home and computers I administer.<p>IPv6: for machines (IoT)<p>IPv4: for humans
评论 #18832594 未加载
评论 #18832456 未加载
joeseeder超过 6 年前
Yup, now you have to go out of your way to not support it.<p>Literary, every modern ISP, hosting or Cloud provides it.<p>Every Operating System, be it server or client or router, supports IPv6.
评论 #18832867 未加载
评论 #18832649 未加载
评论 #18833784 未加载
评论 #18833067 未加载