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Would you still pick Elixir in 2019?

317 点作者 kristerv超过 6 年前

51 条评论

artellectual超过 6 年前
I’ve been programming in elixir for about 2 years now. I have to say it’s hard to go back to something like Ruby or JavaScript.<p>In elixir you really get the full power of multi core and support for distributed computing out of the box.<p>Code that would have been beyond my pay grade or wouldn’t even imagine to write in Ruby or JavaScript is now easily reasoned about and maintained in projects. I can write succinct code that is easy to read, is fast, able to take advantage of multiple cores, less error prone, which I can scale to multiple machines easily.<p>The erlang scheduler is so damn powerful and it feels amazing to be able to execute your code on multiple machines with a simple distributed task which is built in as a standard functionality of the language.<p>I’ll end this note saying that, look at the problem you are trying to solve. If you need multi core and distributed features (which is generally more common than you think) elixir is truly your friend.<p>I can say without a shadow of a doubt the project I’m building right now would not be progressing as fast as it is if I picked anything other than Elixir. You get a lot of bang for your buck when it comes to productivity in the domain that elixir solves for.
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chmln超过 6 年前
This went past me as the post is filled with a lot of claims with no reasoning to back those up. It is not a critical evaluation of the language, but rather sounds like a &quot;fanboy&quot; piece, for the lack of a better term.<p>&gt; Memory efficiency is much better than most other languages (with the exception of Rust, but Elixir is miles better at Error handling than Rust, which is a more practical feature IMO<p>How exactly are arbitrary runtime exceptions better? Any elixir function you call has the potential to crash. Meanwhile with Rust, your function returns a `Result` if it can error, and callers are then forced to handle those by the compiler, either via pattern matching or ergonomic error propagation.<p>Rust has runtime panics, but those are for rare unrecoverable errors and are not at all used for conventional error handling, reserved usually for C FFI, graphics code, etc.
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arvidkahl超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been working with Elixir in a single-developer production system for over a year now. I&#x27;m running it in Docker containers on Kubernetes, in the cloud.<p>It has been extremely stable, scaling has been a non-issue. Error reporting has become easier and easier, now that companies like Sentry and AppSignal have integrations for Elixir.<p>Elixir is VERY fault-tolerant. DB connection crashing? Ah well, reconnects immediately, while still serving the static parts of the application. PDF generation wonky? Same thing. Incredibly fast on static assets, still very fast for anything else.<p>I&#x27;ve had nothing but fun with the language and the platform. And the Phoenix Framework is just icing on the cake. I&#x27;ve been fortunate to have been to many community events, and meeting (among so many others) José and Chris at conferences has made me very confident that this piece of software has a bright future. The Elixir slack is also VERY helpful, with maintainers of most important libraries being super responsive.<p>I would not start another (side or production) project with anything else than Elixir.
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symboltoproc超过 6 年前
The JavaScript Fatigue argument is not good. There&#x27;s simply no data that backs it and nobody is forced to use new libraries only because they use JavaScript.<p>I&#x27;ve seen third party dependencies churn on Elixir as well (packages that are no longer maintained or alternatives that are better) - I think it&#x27;s an inherent problem with using dependencies and has nothing to do with the programming language in which those dependencies are written.<p>&gt; As a developer I just want to get on with my work, not have to read another Hackernoon post on how everything from last week is obsolete because XYZ framework<p>My recommendation is that you don&#x27;t read Hackernoon. This seems like a very ineffective way to level up your developer skills.<p>Edit: I agree that Elixir is very nice and would pick it over JavaScript for backend heavy applications without thinking. I just don&#x27;t think this argument makes any sense in that context.
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phtrivier超过 6 年前
Elixir has great things &quot;of his own&quot;:<p>* the syntax is well though-of (`with`, destructuring, `|&gt;` are powerful<p>* message passing has great use-cases<p>And then it has problems that are not necessarily &quot;elixir-y&quot;, but are there nonetheless:<p>* it&#x27;s hard to model an application around the Actor model. It&#x27;s very easy to abuse it.<p>* it&#x27;s hard to maintain &#x2F; refactor a large application without help from the compiler before run-time<p>* it&#x27;s hard to maintain an application in a language with a young ecosystem and no &quot;seamless&quot; integration with a better established one (ports are <i>not</i> seamless.)<p>Quite frankly, I&#x27;m looking forward to writing a backend in Rust, to have a point of comparison.
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sb8244超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been fortunate to work with a CTO that sees the value in Elixir and also letting us push forward with it. It has been <i>excellent</i>. At this point we have about 20 engineers who have chosen to work in it close to full time for their services.<p>It&#x27;s hard to pick one big draw, but I&#x27;d say the biggest for me is that everything I wanted to do in rails has been possible in Elixir and then additional functionality not easily possible in rails is trivial in Elixir. I often consider the distribution techniques as &quot;enhancers&quot; as you could work around them with global locks and data stores, but you don&#x27;t need to.<p>I&#x27;m very bullish on Elixir and I&#x27;m curious to see where it will go. Looking forward to giving my talk about bringing Elixir into production (from a human and technical standpoint) at Lonestar Elixir conference.
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mrspeaker超过 6 年前
Could someone give a more concise reason for using Elixir? I have a &quot;rule of 3&quot; for checking out things - the third time I hear it mentioned and it seems interesting, then I&#x27;ll go check it out.<p>Elixir is past 3 times - so I will check it out for sure! - but this article didn&#x27;t seem to actually say anything (seemed more like a PR piece that was trying not to be technical, and the main argument appeared to be &quot;well, it&#x27;s not javascript!&quot;).<p>The part that actually talked about Elixir listed some Pros that didn&#x27;t seem that unique. What&#x27;s the &quot;killer feature&quot; of Elixir - or is it just a combination of &quot;good features&quot;?
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faitswulff超过 6 年前
If the erratically emphasized text bothers anyone else, you can get rid of it by running the following JS in console:<p><pre><code> document.querySelectorAll(&#x27;em&#x27;).forEach(el =&gt; el.replaceWith(new Text(el.innerText)))</code></pre>
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nickjj超过 6 年前
Sure.<p>I am building a quite involved video learning platform as we speak with Elixir and Phoenix. No regrets so far, and if anything as time goes on, I&#x27;m becoming more and more happy with the decision.<p>The community is really great and there&#x27;s a lot of quality libraries available. Not just libraries, but entire production systems too. For example <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;</a> is written with Elixir &#x2F; Phoenix and their platform is open source&#x27;d at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;thechangelog&#x2F;changelog.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;thechangelog&#x2F;changelog.com</a>. There&#x27;s so much good stuff in that repo to learn from.<p>Also the Elixir Slack channel has 20,000+ people in it and the official forums at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elixirforum.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elixirforum.com&#x2F;</a> are very active.
bnchrch超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been using Elixir to build applications for production use for 3 years now my summary is I and my whole team can (in contrast to languages I&#x27;ve used in the past):<p>- Ship faster<p>- Write simple, readable, reliable and fast code<p>- Scale easier and with less resources<p>- Onboard and train new hires into the code base quicker<p>I know I&#x27;m making it out to be a panacea which to be clear it isn&#x27;t as the deployment story still has some final pieces for the core team to work through but I will say I&#x27;ll continue to use it to build in the future
bicx超过 6 年前
I use Elixir daily for the past 8 months, and I love it. For my personal projects, I use a great Heroku-like service called Gigalixir (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gigalixir.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gigalixir.com&#x2F;</a>). No restarts or connection limits for the free tier, and it runs on your choice of Google Cloud or AWS behind the scenes. Elixir doesn&#x27;t have as many easy cloud deployment options as, say, JS, so this service is really helpful.
_asummers超过 6 年前
Yep. Would bet on it again. It&#x27;s proven itself to me and my employer, and has increased developer productivity and joy dramatically. Bad code looks bad, good design emerges organically, and macros let you hide the plumbing where needed, and optimize things away at compile time. Not even mentioning the wonderful world of OTP.
plainOldText超过 6 年前
Yes! And most likely in 2020 as well.<p>I&#x27;ve been programming intensively in Elixir for the past two years and it&#x27;s a wonderfully productive language, which allows one to write elegant systems that leverage the multi-core architecture of today&#x27;s machines effectively.<p>In addition, the networking capabilities and fault tolerance of the VM make writing systems which spawn machines and services a breeze; not the mention the ecosystem only gets better by the day.<p>So yeah, Elixir is one of my main tools when I want to get things done elegantly and productively. And if for some reason I need to speed things up a bit here and there, I just add a little rust into the mix. [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;hansihe&#x2F;rustler" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;hansihe&#x2F;rustler</a>
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nixpulvis超过 6 年前
Tangent: It&#x27;s proposed that Elixir has better error handling than Rust... but this doesn&#x27;t sit well with me, and I know the Rust community is in flux here as well. I personally like not having exceptions. It&#x27;s very easy to trace where an error is coming from when it&#x27;s a value like anything else. Yea it might be a bit more typing... this is the conflict. Rust does have an issue with the boilerplate involved with writing error types, but there are already attempts at fixing this as a crate: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;rust-lang-nursery&#x2F;failure" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;rust-lang-nursery&#x2F;failure</a>
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bsaul超过 6 年前
Question : How does OTP work together with things like kubernetes in the real world ? Designing around actors with OTP spawning and respawning part of the actor tree, while at the same time provisionning &#x2F; deprovisionning VMs if load is going up or down, sounds like either a dream if it works well, or a nightmare if there&#x27;s just a single glitch somewhere.
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whalesalad超过 6 年前
This post is killing me. I’ve been really really loving Elixir and for a while was fighting the “everything looks like a nail” syndrome once I learned it.<p>But now I have a contract that would really benefit from the runtime. That being said the existing environment has a lot of python expertise and I don’t have enough production Elixir experience to have confidence in myself to deliver something of the right caliber.<p>It’s a damn shame. This system has to process hundreds of thousands of API calls for workloads against a half dozen third parties that all have different rate limits and failure modes. It’s the perfect job for Elixir. It needs to be as fast as possible while isolating failures to the smallest unit possible.
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cuddlecake超过 6 年前
I love Elixir.<p>It&#x27;s the first language I genuinely enjoy reading and writing even in my private life.<p>If I wonder about the internals of a library I use, I can just look into the code and kind of understand what&#x27;s happening. Never had that with JS or anything.<p>I&#x27;m just a genuine fanboy.<p>Only drawback I feel is: Some libraries that would have been quite developed in JS are not that well developed in Elixir. Some libraries are quite dead and it&#x27;s hard to find alternatives (mostly obscure stuff)<p>But on the other hand, it often seems manageable to just write it yourself, or fork it and move on.
neathack超过 6 年前
I have never used Elixir, so maybe it&#x27;s a great language, maybe not. But I have to question the reasoning of the post simply going by the comments about other languages in the &quot;Conclusions&quot; sections — some of which I did use extensively.<p>Really, Go &quot;is the choice if you need to &#x27;sell it&#x27; to a &#x27;Boss&#x27;&quot; and the imperative programming style leads to more complexity? And Python&#x2F;Django can only be used if you &quot;don&#x27;t need anything &#x27;real time&#x27; and just want RESTful &#x27;CRUD&#x27;&quot;.<p>I get it, you guys like Elixir, but painting the world using such broad strokes doesn&#x27;t really sound like &quot;kaizen learning culture&quot; to me, but more like &quot;Negative Nancy&quot;.
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StreamBright超过 6 年前
Elixir just really nice. I gave it a shot again and it is super smooth experience nowadays. Distillery, mix, iex &lt;3 Also most of the libraries I care about are 2.0+ and now this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;aws-samples&#x2F;aws-lambda-elixir-runtime" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;aws-samples&#x2F;aws-lambda-elixir-runtime</a><p>The only downside is that the out of the box performance is subpar for http services but it is still acceptable.
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heurist超过 6 年前
Our team has had great success with Elixir over the last year and ported core node services to it over the last few months. We are very happy with the results. There are some things we haven&#x27;t been able to do with it, like intensive data processing (for which Python is still used), but if those libraries existed we would switch our Python services ASAP and be an entirely elixir backend.
phil_s_stein超过 6 年前
Why does the &quot;author&quot; love &quot;quotes&quot; so much? Makes me &quot;discount&quot; the &quot;article&quot; when every other phrase is &quot;quoted&quot;.
zerr超过 6 年前
Considering progress in statically typed languages with regard to programmer ergonomics, does it still make sense to go with dynamic languages?
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trashhalo超过 6 年前
I keep wanting to be hyped about elixer but the performance benchmarks confuse me. If you look at the tech emperor benchmarks[1] phoenix makes the list at #46 registering 16% of the performance of the top framework. I&#x27;m willing to sacrifice performance for readable maintainable code but it just surprises me that its that slow.<p>Anyone know whats going on there?<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techempower.com&#x2F;benchmarks&#x2F;#section=data-r17&amp;hw=ph&amp;test=fortune&amp;l=zg24jj-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techempower.com&#x2F;benchmarks&#x2F;#section=data-r17&amp;hw=...</a>
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rs86超过 6 年前
I have mixed feelings about using Elixir (or Erlang); as far as I understand the platform, it is about building fault tolerant systems&#x2F;high availability, specially in the presence of hardware failure. I think those are handled well by cloud service providers; they didn&#x27;t exist during the 80s.<p>I think performance is better compared to Ruby and Python, but then again my experience with web applications is that the domains are best modeled using classes.<p>For writing networking code and protocols, the binary pattern matching is amazing, though. The Plug libraries are a pleasure to use also.
lopatin超过 6 年前
Does anyone have experience with Elixir as well as Scala&#x2F;Akka. Afaik, these are the two largest Erlang inspired systems out there. I only have experience with Akka, and I&#x27;d love to hear a comparison.
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xvilka超过 6 年前
Very interesting language (and OTP platform), I wish I learned it earlier.
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atonse超过 6 年前
From a technology perspective, a thousand times yes. And the same for Ember JS (my other go-to).<p>But from a talent and recruiting perspective, I&#x27;m less enthusiastic. Elixir, yes, there&#x27;s growing talent. But Ember, boy it seems like nobody is doing it, and I&#x27;ve had to convince potential candidates that it&#x27;ll be worth their time for future employability to learn Ember.
ai_ia超过 6 年前
I started read Programming Elixir and Programming Phoenix. Elixir is amazing.
xena超过 6 年前
I would like it a lot more if it wasn&#x27;t forced on me by my coworkers.
butterisgood超过 6 年前
Did this article claim Haskell was slower than Erlang&#x2F;Elixir?! That’s never been my experience and I’ve shipped both!
troquerre超过 6 年前
What kind of problems are people using Elixir to solve in production? My impression is it’s mainly useful for highly networked applications with real-time features (i.e. chat), but it seems like for most applications you’d be better off picking rails or nodejs for the community&#x2F;ecosystem.
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dev_dull超过 6 年前
&gt; <i>No &quot;native&quot; type for JSON data. You always have to parse JSON into a Map and there are excellent libraries for doing this.</i><p>I guess the better question would be why is there not an easy, standard lib for doing this in <i>any</i> language in 2019?
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atombender超过 6 年前
I love Erlang&#x27;s OTP, but I would never go back to a dynamically typed language.<p>Most of my current work is in Go, which is a fairly strict language, and I value perhaps more than anything the ability to verify my program at compile time -- for one, I can do large-scale refactoringest, safe in the knowledge that my program won&#x27;t run until everything is again sound.<p>Go still leaves a lot to be desired, so I&#x27;ve been exploring options. I&#x27;ve started picking up Rust. I love the idea of zero-cost abstractions, though at the moment I find the mental overhead of a lot of the constructs (lifetime annotation, implicit operations that happen due to what traits you implement, the many baroque syntax choices, etc.) a little annoying. It brings to mind modern C++, which also has a lot of rules that you have to remember, from copy constructors to what the order of &quot;const&quot; in var&#x2F;arg decls mean, to the awkward split between functional and imperative styles.<p>Modern C++ looks interesting, and I&#x27;ve used it for a few projects. What bugs me the most is the warts still not fixed by the &quot;modern&quot; iterations: Include files (leading to long compilation times), lack of modules, unsafe pointers, etc. While I appreciate and understand template mechanics, I&#x27;m not overly impressed with some developments -- Rust traits and Haskell typeclasses just seem so much less messy than the current situation with type traits and concepts. There&#x27;s a tendency in &quot;modern&quot; C++ to offer multiple syntaxes for the same thing, none of which are very intuitive.<p>I&#x27;ve occasionally written small things in Haskell and OCaml, and I&#x27;ve considered doing a future project in OCaml now that multicore support is getting close. I looked at F# for a bit, too, but it comes across as having too much .NET&#x2F;Microsoft flavour for me. Same with C#. I&#x27;ve looked at Nim, but it&#x27;s too niche -- for the projects I&#x27;m going to work on, I&#x27;d have to write libraries for functionality that just isn&#x27;t there yet (e.g. gRPC).<p>Back to Elixir, though; the problem is of course that none of these other languages offer anything like OTP. The closest may be Haskell, with it&#x27;s Distributed Haskell project. But I&#x27;m not sure it&#x27;s anywhere close to being as mature. Maybe Pony is comparable, but that also seems quite niche at this point.
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qaq超过 6 年前
Depends on the project. I have a project that heavily relies on headless chrome for scraping dynamic pages I&#x27;d rather stick to Node and Puppeteer for this particular project. In general Elixir is a joy to use but some of the trade-offs BEAM(Erlang VM) makes might not match your requirements e.g. if you don&#x27;t need live code upgrades but project could benefit from static typing you might want to consider something else.
therealmarv超过 6 年前
Elixir is a niche (that&#x27;s the truth). Also in the article it is written &#x27;Relatively difficult to &quot;recruit&quot; developers with existing experience in Elixir&#x27;.<p>Why would a SW company invest in niche languages where the resources (software developers) are really expensive and really hard to get? Technologically it&#x27;s all great but economically that&#x27;s a nightmare.
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GordonS超过 6 年前
Has anyone had experience of both Elixir and F#?<p>I&#x27;ve dabbled with both - but really fell in love with <i>both</i> of them! I come from a C# background, so the static typing of F# is a big pull. OTOH, the simplicity of Elixir was an absolute delight - after just an afternoon, I felt like I had a decent grasp of it.<p>I&#x27;m conflicted, and would value some other opinions?
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abledon超过 6 年前
can people give real world business use cases for where they are using elixir? What industries are you working in? what actually gets done in the real world at the end of the day with the system you&#x27;re working on? e.g. are more ads served to web users? are you monitoring methane on IOT things strapped to cows in farm fields?
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pjmlp超过 6 年前
From someone that comes from Java&#x2F;.NET land, I hardly see a benefit, specially given the wealth of programming language options on those platforms.<p>Now for someone starting new, maybe the Erlang eco-system might be a good bet, and Elixir an entry point.<p>Still, not everyone has Ericson scale problems to solve.
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rthille超过 6 年前
Sees post recommends <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nerves-project.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nerves-project.org</a> for IoT Clicks thru Sees that Nerves is an excellent platform for IoT and only requires a base of 12MB and Linux. Quickly backs away.
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flixic超过 6 年前
Yes. I prototype in Node, but then usually move all the important stuff to Elixir.
honkycat超过 6 年前
Elixir is the best programming language I have ever worked with. I absolutely love it.<p>Elixir has totally spoiled me. The meta-programming ALONE is something I miss constantly when I have to use other languages.
mooreds超过 6 年前
If you are coming to elixir from a rails background, how does it compare? I looked a year or two ago and the number of packages was far smaller with elixir, which turned me off of it.
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diminish超过 6 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t pick Elixir because:<p>Rails has revolutionized web application development on Ruby, with Sinatra as the minimalist version and a lot of &quot;me too&quot; frameworks have been developed, and somehow I like them all.<p>* On Python, Django and Flask * On Elixir, Phoenix * On Crystal, Amber * On Javascript Express js for Sinatra. But on JS we didn&#x27;t get a successful Rails clone, but a storm of front end frameworks, finally Vue JS&#x2F;React and endless others.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t pick Elixir because The world is elsewhere: My choice is on JavaScript ES6, Vue, and a simple Express.js, Sinatra, Flask for most projects.
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cygned超过 6 年前
Interesting perspective on the JavaScript ecosystem.<p>I never had any debugging issues in particular, but the dependency hell drives me nuts, too.
hartator超过 6 年前
Was very excited by Exilir coming from Ruby, however found 2 issues that made it hard to work with:<p>- Pipelines are hard to debug. You can’t just throw a debugger just before the line with the issue.<p>- Phoenix is very bad at serving static files. It was a nightmare to import a new CSS template requiring to convert everything to work with bower first, or dump the files in the &#x2F;priv directory to make it work.
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undersheet超过 6 年前
This feels like an orchestrated upvoting and content marketing flash mob from the Elixir Slack channel. Google Trends shows that Elixir is declining. I love new languages but don&#x27;t like to be fooled.
subfay超过 6 年前
no it&#x27;s premature optimization, you won&#x27;t find any devs, 99% of elixir can be done in node + k8s.
gpmcadam超过 6 年前
Love Elixir.<p>But <i>every</i> other <i>word</i> being <i>emphasised</i> in this <i>article</i> was tiring to read.
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qwerty456127超过 6 年前
Isn&#x27;t Elixir the most efficient thing available?
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jondubois超过 6 年前
&gt;&gt; Node is a single-threaded event loop, if the process crashes for one user, it crashes for all the requests being handled by that process. i.e. one user can crash the server for hundreds&#x2F;thousands of people! This is a terrible design flaw<p>This is a design flaw on the part of the team who is using Node.js incorrectly and not a flaw of Node.js itself. There are many ways to implement error handling properly in Node.js so that a user cannot crash a whole server&#x2F;process and there are a lot of frameworks which implement this by default.<p>Elixir is over-marketed and over-hyped. It&#x27;s obvious that there is a big money machine behind it. The entire community is obsessed with evangelizing; they&#x27;re not getting organic growth; they have very aggressive marketing but it&#x27;s mostly founded on exaggerations and flat out lies.<p>In addition to what I&#x27;ve pointed out above, to say that someone can learn Elixir in just 1 week is another example of a lie. It takes years to fully understand the nuances of a language to the point that you can be good at it; there are always a lot of patterns to learn; especially for functional programming languages.<p>The Elixir ecosystem will never be as significant as that of Node.js because Elixir&#x27;s ecosystem is founded on hype. Part of the greatness of Node.js is that reality tends to exceed expectations; so-called &#x27;thought leaders&#x27; and &#x27;bloggers&#x27; have been working very hard to discredit Node.js from the beginning but they failed (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3062271" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3062271</a>).<p>I&#x27;m not going to consider using Elixir while it&#x27;s so clearly over-marketed and over-hyped.
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cjhanks超过 6 年前
I guess I feel like the annoying formatting is indicative of the community, immature.<p>Web developers seem to follow trends; Perl -&gt; DJango|RoR -&gt; Node.JS -&gt; Scala -&gt; GoLang -&gt; Elixir -&gt; Something. Or, something like that. To me, it&#x27;s like buying a $500 pencil and expecting that you should be capable of writing a better book.<p>If you get in bed with that crowd, don&#x27;t expect that your program and 3rd party dependencies are going to be stable in 2 years.
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