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The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

207 点作者 cesidio超过 6 年前

37 条评论

afpx超过 6 年前
As an outlier poor kid who made money, I can really relate to this. This is a thought-provoking piece, and hits on a lot of things I think about often.<p>But, I think some of us aren’t necessarily in the hedonic treadmill game. Some of us keep working to gain more wealth not be of higher social status but because we fear being relegated back to poor-guy status.<p>Now, I often do want to be the non-rich guy again. I see many of my friends making 30k a year and enjoying life. And, I often take time off to hang with my old friends because it gets me out of my bubble and also because it’s more authentic to me. I get tired of wearing a mask.<p>But, I keep driving myself for wealth because I find it gives me security. As a poor kid, I can’t tell you how many times I was targeted by the power hierarchy. Being at the bottom of the social ladder hurts. You get abused and bullied. You have no voice or remedy when you (often) become the target of those with wealth. It hurts mentally, emotionally, financially, and - as the police are mostly paid to watch you - it can wind you in prison.<p>No, I can’t deal with that feeling. I want money because it gives me access and it keeps the creepers away.
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vorpalhex超过 6 年前
There is nothing which will make you happy. You must choose to be happy.<p>There is no job, no amount of money, no relationship, which will make you feel whole and happy and content and done. The opposite doesn&#x27;t hold - there are jobs and relationships and financial strains which will certainly keep you from being happy.<p>The goal isn&#x27;t for a job or a relationship to make you happy. It&#x27;s to enable other things which are your goals, which may or may not be happiness related.
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Karawebnetwork超过 6 年前
Money gave me stability.<p>Stability allowed me to have time for introspection.<p>Introspection allowed me to target issues in my life.<p>Fixing those issues is lowering my discomfort in life.<p>Money won&#x27;t fix anything for you but it will provide you an environment where you can.
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dx87超过 6 年前
Overall I agree with the article, and would gladly trade my high paying job for one that I actually enjoy, as long as I could be sure that I can make ends meet. The one disagreement I have is the assertion that we should be happy making &quot;just enough&quot; money that we need. &quot;just enough&quot; can change due to circumstances outside our control, so earning more than enough gives you some cushion for when things don&#x27;t go as planned. For example, a couple of years ago I was laid off due to budget issues at the company, and since I had been earning more than I needed, my wife and I were able to still live comfortably off savings while I was unemployed for a few months. If I had been earning &quot;just enough&quot;, I might have lost my home when I suddenly started earning nothing.
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djohnston超过 6 年前
“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.” ― Søren Kierkegaard
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rthomas6超过 6 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hedonic_treadmill" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hedonic_treadmill</a><p>We spend a lot of our time trying to add pleasure to our lives to (temporarily) boost us above our baseline happiness level, when really we should be spending that time learning how to change the baseline level itself.<p>Isn&#x27;t it odd that there are monks who live with nothing who are probably happier than any of us?
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vinceguidry超过 6 年前
Americans are becoming too rational and this is a major problem. When you over-value rationality, you expect to be able to have a rational answer to every question.<p>The hand-licking story that made the front page today illustrates this point perfectly. Approached rationally, the mom could not solve the problem, no amount of mental effort would yield a resolution or insight into the issue. When the mind expects an answer to a problem that it can&#x27;t solve, it applies more and more &#x27;force&#x27; until it breaks through. In this case, the force was destroying her family relationships. But this is what frustrated rationalism does. People don&#x27;t or can&#x27;t catch themselves before they create awful situations.<p>It is only when she applied an <i>irrational</i> approach to the problem, surrendering the need to control the situation, that she could finally understand what was going on.<p>I rail against excessive rationality on HN all the time, promoting a more cautious, traditional outlook on certain things like office politics. I expect coders to be exceptionally rational, I don&#x27;t have any issue with it.<p>But Americans in general are succumbing to the trend of expecting to be able to answer every question they ever have in their lives and throwing away their emotional health on meaningless symbols and missing the true core nature of what it means to be happy and healthy and whole.<p>Perhaps the starkest example of this phenomenon is when atheists lament that there aren&#x27;t any atheist churches. 50 years ago, if you were an atheist, you still went to church. They were still the pillars that communities revolved around, the very loom of the fabric of society.<p>Nowadays, we&#x27;ve thrown away every last bit of symbolism that brings people together and wonder why we&#x27;re so lonely. If things aren&#x27;t perfectly rational, people&#x27;s minds rebel immediately and harshly, like it&#x27;s my fault you don&#x27;t understand a concept requiring depth of study to really grasp.<p>I don&#x27;t know what the answer is, but I do know that the mind will create a myth if it doesn&#x27;t already believe in one. Money, job, marriage is the American Dream myth. It stems ultimately from positivism and expecting to be able to understand everything.<p>It doesn&#x27;t have to be this way. You might not be able to fix everybody else but you can fix yourself.
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ConceptJunkie超过 6 年前
My job gives me a good paycheck, but isn&#x27;t all that satisfying. It&#x27;s varied over the years with some jobs being better than others, but overall I can&#x27;t complain.<p>Marriage (because of the kids) has been much harder, and at times more stressful. But while I would trade my job in heartbeat, I wouldn&#x27;t trade my family for anything.<p>I would definitely say that I&#x27;m happy. But like people have said above. Happiness is something you choose. You have to choose to recognize the blessings in life, of which I have many, and to deal with the stress and problems (which I also have plenty) as they come, without letting them rule you.
jondubois超过 6 年前
&gt;&gt; happiness goes up with increases in income at the lower end of the scale, but then it falls with higher incomes<p>Income and wealth are two completely unrelated concepts. Income doesn&#x27;t mean much because you usually need to work harder to get more income; so the benefits are offset by the suffering of having to work harder.<p>Wealth, on the other hand doesn&#x27;t require any suffering - It&#x27;s just pure happiness. Wealth can buy you anything. The only downside is that it erodes your mental fortitude&#x2F;willpower but if you have enough wealth, you don&#x27;t need any willpower anyway because wealth makes all personality traits redundant - Everyone likes a rich person no matter what; to a rich person, personality is useless.
bryanlarsen超过 6 年前
Is happiness the right thing to aim for? Using words like &quot;content&quot;, &quot;satisfied&quot;, &quot;meaning&quot;, &quot;engagement&quot;, &quot;accomplishment&quot; or &quot;purpose&quot; can result in very different results.<p>The standard example is kids. Having kids, especially in a place without many social supports, such as the United States, results in a drop in perceived happiness, but an increase in satisfaction, which in the long term is better correlated with mental health.
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sethammons超过 6 年前
Two points jumped out at me: 1) &gt; Contrary to what most of us might predict, those earning over $100K are no happier than those with incomes of less than $25K<p>And 2) &gt; ... happiness and sense of purpose are both at their highest among people working between 21 and 30 hours a week, and misery increases in tandem with the number of hours worked thereafter. The results are consistent across genders.<p>I can&#x27;t say I agree with the first. I&#x27;ve gone from quite poor to upper middle class. Money does not make one more happy per se, but your ability to reduce stressors is much higher (and that can tip the balance to being more happy). Food running out? Unexpected bills&#x2F;repairs? Water heater broke? Several years ago, that would mean I have cold water for the next few months (true story, our on-demand water heater required manual lighting from outdoors for about 7 years - couldn&#x27;t afford a new one. Wind, rain, snow, day, night, go outside to light the pilot). With more income, that means I go out that evening and pick up a water heater (which I did when I could afford it!). My ability to now remove nearly all debts has made me feel so much better than I have for _years_. This only happened because I was firmly on the higher end of the middle class.<p>For the second part, I agree fully. All I want to do is work my property and spend time with my kids. I do want to work too, but I want that to take up much, much less of my time. If I could do 21 hours of work a week and maintain a similar ability to fix a water heater at the drop of a hat (or car issue, or whatever), that would be an easy sell.<p>As for happiness, you choose to be happy. And that is an easier choice when stressors are less present.
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b_tterc_p超过 6 年前
The authors assertion that swearing isn’t bad annoys me. Swearing isn’t bad, but that’s not the point. Not swearing in certain contexts is obviously just a social norm, not a rational evaluation. It’s ok and natural for social norms to change.<p>I would wager The overall thesis seems to be that non rationally proven social norms are negative influences is naive to the fact that (I would guess) strong social norms of any variety in a society lead to better community and happiness.<p>I feel that by arguing we change a bunch of established norms because we can be smarter than them, he’s unintentionally tripling down on the very effects he’s advocating against.
Loughla超过 6 年前
Like literally everything else, it&#x27;s about balance.<p>No, you shouldn&#x27;t let the world dictate your choices every single day.<p>But also you need to conform to some amount of societal standard. Social norms exist sometimes to keep society working and moving forward.<p>As for happiness, if you are trying to &#x27;get&#x27; happiness through external forces, you&#x27;re never going to be happy. That&#x27;s not a secret.
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docker_up超过 6 年前
Our combined income is about $600k USD, but funny enough we don&#x27;t consider ourselves &quot;rich&quot;. We consider ourselves &quot;upper middle class&quot; at least for the Bay Area, because we both work very hard, probably 10+ hours a day. Our mortgage on our house is less than 1 year&#x27;s income so it&#x27;s relatively low compared to others in the Bay Area. If one of us lost our jobs, we could still comfortably afford our mortgage but we would have to cut back on a lot of things.<p>Our children go to a private school that is close by, and our commutes are less than 20 mins away each. My wife makes 2x more than me and she works hard but loves her job. I&#x27;m a lot more relaxed with my job even though I&#x27;m older, but I get to spend a lot more time with the kids (ex. pickup from school every day, make dinner for them, etc).<p>We have enough money such that we don&#x27;t have to think about it, which is a luxury. We have never fought over money, but we have fought over other more mundane things like over how we raise our children. But overall, not having to worry takes a lot of conflict off the table that many other people ave to endure, so we consider ourselves very lucky.<p>So yes, I&#x27;m pretty happy these days. It hasn&#x27;t always been this way but once we both started making &gt; $400k combined, things got easier and easier. A lot of our happiness these days is predicated by how our children behave, are they fighting, do they have issues at school, etc.
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babygoat超过 6 年前
Happiness isn&#x27;t a state you can reach and just dwell in. As soon as you realize you&#x27;re happy and start to think about it, it evaporates. It&#x27;s a byproduct that sits in your periphery when you&#x27;re experiencing life to the fullest, whatever that means to you.
TheBeardKing超过 6 年前
I think your ability to be content is just a personality trait, and some have that ability to a much greater extent than others. For example, the saying &quot;ignorance is bliss&quot; seems to have some merit - many highly intelligent people just cannot be happy. It&#x27;s an unfortunate product of your brain chemistry, and it&#x27;s nothing you can choose to escape given average circumstances, as much as we romanticize the idea of &quot;finding happiness.&quot;
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howard941超过 6 年前
Why the great disparity in job satisfaction between UK and US lawyers? 64% of UK lawyers are satisfied compared to (unequal measures, yeah) Associate Attorneys who were at a 2.89 &quot;Bliss Score&quot; the unhappiest profession (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;pictures&#x2F;efkk45ehffl&#x2F;no-1-unhappiest-job-associate-attorney&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;pictures&#x2F;efkk45ehffl&#x2F;no-1-unhappiest-...</a>)<p>As for myself I am generally unhappy. I left the law and back to engineering which I love, I&#x27;m married but spend too little time with my wife because we&#x27;re in different cities and live apart most of the time, I&#x27;m sad most of the time when I&#x27;m not working, I don&#x27;t have any life battering chronic diseases, I take home enough money that I&#x27;m not indebted other than for my house and FFS am I grateful for that. So no, I&#x27;m not happy, but I&#x27;ve stopped expecting happiness so there is some satisfaction in not experiencing repeated disappointment.
angarg12超过 6 年前
Coming from a Mediterranean culture I can sympathise with the &#x27;money doesn&#x27;t mean happiness&#x27; maxim, but the opposite narrative is not much deeper.<p>In my life I moved from both extremes, from a poverty level wage in a dead beat job with a friend and family support network, to a high stress, high earning job, and something in between.<p>In all those situations I had sources of happiness and sources of unhappiness. As you move in life you make tradeoff that think will make you better off, some work and others don&#x27;t. Ironically my current high stress job makes me happier than the previous one, because I am able to learn, grow and do great things. I traded a bit of work life balance for something else and that&#x27;s ok; it might work for me and not for others.<p>So by all means avoid the rat race and live a more relaxed life, but also don&#x27;t be afraid to try different things and see what works best for you at each point in your life.
majui超过 6 年前
I don&#x27;t seek money, have a job, or got married, or other social markers of success, to be happy.<p>I did it to thrive in society; it increases my and my family&#x27;s chances of survival.<p>I&#x27;d be happier by myself, with enough money to live with, and without a job. Happiness is not the most important thing in my life.
rconti超过 6 年前
Am I happier not having to worry about money, having the stability of a life partner, and having something to do every day?<p>Yes.<p>I don&#x27;t have a control group for myself, though, but it&#x27;s sure a lot better than the turmoil of teens and twenties life.
triviatise超过 6 年前
The path to true happiness is to want for nothing.
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Konnstann超过 6 年前
The only time I&#x27;m concerned about money is when I think about the future. I make a lot of money when you consider that I live alone and don&#x27;t really go out much, but if I ever want to raise a family in a house that I own, what I make right now won&#x27;t cut it. I love my job, even though I&#x27;ll have to leave it and get a PhD later.<p>The only other reason I want more money is to be able to eat out whenever I want, and not feel bad about spending the money instead of saving it.
whitepoplar超过 6 年前
&quot;Money might not buy happiness, but I&#x27;ll take my fucking chances.&quot;
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momentmaker超过 6 年前
&quot;Everything in moderation, even moderation itself&quot;<p>Walk The Middle Way<p>Your natural state is bliss and peace but your mind&#x27;s thoughts and heart&#x27;s vibration pull you out of that state because the real you, the soul, the observer, the atman become identified with them.<p>That&#x27;s the great illusion - Maya.
oldboyFX超过 6 年前
The benefit of wealth is not happiness but freedom to spend your time and resources as you please. That allows you to focus on what matters which in turn gives you meaning and amplifies your ability to affect the world around you, for good or bad.
ffwacom超过 6 年前
Sebastian Junger’s work is relevant to this, and after a decade of thinking about happiness and looking back on my own experiences and others, he lays out explicitly what I couldn’t put into words. His book Tribe is worth the read, and he has two documentaries on Netflix, Restrepo and Korengal that touches on the issue lightly.<p>It answers the question of why cancer patients can miss being sick, why soldiers miss being on the frontlines and why I was happiest living in a third world hole in a beat up apartment vs the luxury I’m living in now.
mlcrypto超过 6 年前
All I need is a skateboard, a magic the gathering draft, a chart of the S&amp;P 500, a game of Halo, and a good pizza and I&#x27;m pretty happy
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mmsimanga超过 6 年前
If only people who are happy would shut up enjoy their happiness without telling the world. Okay you can tell your wife and brother but leave the rest of us out of it. I think this creates pressure on the rest of us to emulate you to be as happy as you or even worse some people fake happiness and this makes situation even worse because we are chasing fake happiness.
squirrelicus超过 6 年前
It&#x27;s not clear that happiness ought to be the goal. I mean, sure, we were bred by schools and culture to aim for happiness as if it was the goal, but being stressed and discontent isn&#x27;t necessarily bad. I believe that finding meaning in what you do ought to be the goal. Meaning is what fulfills, not happiness.
tixocloud超过 6 年前
Relative happiness places emphasis on external factors and tend to wear off after the initial attainment of these factors. True happiness comes from within and from the insight that regardless of whatever situation or problems you face, you have the means of overcoming them and you’re able to be happy just as you are.
village-idiot超过 6 年前
Happiness is a process, not a destination. I have seen far too many of my colleagues get the spouse, the house, and the children and then go &quot;.... oh shit, now what?&quot;.
scrumper超过 6 年前
Well he might not like conforming to the stereotype of a middle class university professor but he sure as hell enjoys having a massive chip on his shoulder about it.
hamilyon2超过 6 年前
This is the part that is new to me:<p>&gt; When we look again at the ATUS, happiness and sense of purpose are both at their highest among people working between 21 and 30 hours a week
advertising超过 6 年前
The pursuit of happiness is the most unhappy pursuit of all
chasd00超过 6 年前
Nature really hates things out of the ordinary. If you want to be out of the ordinary don&#x27;t expect it to be easy and pain free.
dawhizkid超过 6 年前
happiness is not the goal. meaning is.
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agumonkey超过 6 年前
maybe the &#x27;get more&#x27; is mostly a dynamic adaptive limit sensing mechanism. &#x27;get more until you feel satisfied&#x27; as opposed to &#x27;dont ever try&#x27;