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Tell HN: I Hugely Regret Using Stripe Atlas

321 点作者 mikob超过 6 年前
I signed my company up through Stripe Atlas thinking it would be more convenient and save me time, boy was I wrong. It&#x27;s been a time suck dealing with this company and their banking partners, I would recommend other founders who value their time to avoid this service. I&#x27;ve created an LLC in Delaware before using certain other googleable companies and it&#x27;s gone completely smoothly, so this isn&#x27;t my first rodeo.<p>First problem, Stripe will create a new, separate Stripe account for you to use with Atlas. So if you already had some transactions (hope you do if you&#x27;re forming a company) then you&#x27;re going to need to migrate them. For my company, they just created another account with exactly the same name and just one capitalization difference, pretty confusing. Migration is likely automatic with a cool company like Stripe, right? Nope, they only can migrate your customers -- everything else, subscriptions, coupons, tx data you need to write a script and DIY! Have fun wasting an afternoon updating all your API keys and re-testing too.<p>Side note, if you had special things like the Stripe startup school discount applied to your account, you&#x27;ll lose it on Atlas. Unless you open up another support ticket with Stripe and wait for a couple weeks.<p>Second problem, if you form a c-corp Stripe will create an account through SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) for you. You can go ahead and read the reviews on that bank yourself, but the biggest annoyance for me was a $25&#x2F;mo account maintenance fee. OK, not atypical for a business bank, but most banks don&#x27;t have a $25k+ min. balance for that fee! I do care about $300&#x2F;year for my company when I specifically payed for Stripe Atlas thinking it would be more convenient and save me money.<p>Third problem, want to switch to Azlo bank so that at least you don&#x27;t have to pay monthly fees? That&#x27;s great except Azlo will tell you that you need to talk to Stripe to do that, and <i>surprise</i> Stripe will tell you that... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;mikob&#x2F;3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bdb9" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;mikob&#x2F;3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bd...</a>

34 条评论

markonen超过 6 年前
1) It makes perfect sense that a new account is created and that transactions pre-incorporation are not automatically imported. Your new company is required to have accurate books; you can&#x27;t pretend that transactions executed before the company existed (ie. by you personally?) were actually executed by the company you&#x27;ve later incorporated.<p>2) SVB seems to be nobody&#x27;s favorite bank, but it&#x27;s quite clear to me that they have been chosen for their willingness to bank for <i>every</i> Atlas customer—including companies founded and operated by non-U.S. persons—without requiring an in-person visit. If this is not a problem for you then consider yourself lucky for having other choices.<p>3) Your third problem sounds like you&#x27;ve identified a better bank, but they have not accepted you as a client. How is that an issue with Stripe Atlas? They have simply identified and worked with a bank who was willing accept you.
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rememberlenny超过 6 年前
I can&#x27;t disagree more with the OP. I went through Stripe Atlas with an existing problem and didn&#x27;t have any issues.<p>I found the customer support incredible helpful. Whenever I had questions, I would always get a response within 24 hours. Even more so, I had times when I would get follow ups to on-going issues, making me feel like their customer support process was really solid.<p>I originally signed up as a C-Corp, but realized I wanted to change to an LLC before the process was completed. The support staff helped me and got me on the way very quickly.<p>I didn&#x27;t have any issues with my banking partner. I was actually able to get my Azlo account started even before my incorporation documents for an EIN number were completed, which was very helpful.<p>I&#x27;m not saying all of this other than because I strongly feel Atlas is a very good product. Similar to OP, I have incorporated before, and personally it was a total mess. The first time, I registered a Delaware C-Corp through another legal service I wont name, and found myself paying various costs to a Registered Agent, which was misleadingly introduced. Atlas does a much better job explaining the financial requirements around taxes, which I also didn&#x27;t have properly explained the first time.<p>Overall, I would strongly recommend Atlas - especially if you can get a discount through some startup program.
tptacek超过 6 年前
<i>and surprise Stripe will tell you that...</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bit.ly&#x2F;2HhbXjZ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bit.ly&#x2F;2HhbXjZ</a><p>... they&#x27;ll do anything they can to help you, will support you over live chat and email, but they&#x27;re not Azlo Bank and can&#x27;t open an account there for you? That sounds pretty... reasonable?
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arihant超过 6 年前
If you&#x27;re in the US, you can just walk into a bank of your choice and open a account. Stripe doesn&#x27;t care what you do with your SVB account. Just replace it with your new account number in Stripe payment settings and you&#x27;re done. This is not an endorsement, but I&#x27;ve been hearing good things about First Republic Bank.<p>If you&#x27;re not in the US, let me first point out that Azlo doesn&#x27;t even support international transfers. They do not have login system for multiple founders. I&#x27;m very sure they don&#x27;t work with ITIN and require SSN to open an account. Also, only one debit card. No checkbooks.<p>It appears that you somehow expect every step of the process to be smooth as butter. But nothing about running a startup will be like that. Transferring subscriptions from one Stripe account to another should be the least of your problems when porting an existing business with transactions to a c-corp. Talk to a lawyer and an accountant to understand what you got yourself into. Since you&#x27;re trying to migrate transactions before the incorporation into the company account, you should talk to them earliest you can.
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lettergram超过 6 年前
I personally went through the Stripe Atlas beta, no regrets. At the time the AWS credits saved me thousands of dollars. (On year 2 or 3 now, I don&#x27;t recall)<p>In terms of what you&#x27;re discussing though, I agree. Faced those same two issues.<p>What I did:<p>1. Keep utilizing my other stripe account(s). I have multiple web fronts, and each has it&#x27;s own stripe account. No issue there, actually zero funds go through the Stripe Atlas account. All the accounts are merged through one login, which is easy enough to see.<p>2. Closed the SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) account month two of the company. Opened an account with Capital One Spark Business, no minimum fees and the customer service has been good. Moved all my stripe accounts to dump into that account.<p>Honestly, Stripe should really partner with a better bank.<p>All Stripe does is provide an easy way to setup the C-Corp and help with some information. You&#x27;re still in charge of your business. I did enjoy the suggestions and reminders from Stripe Atlas regarding filings.
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ed超过 6 年前
Just wanted to chime in because I&#x27;ve been using Atlas for over a year and am very happy with both the service and the team at Stripe.<p>SVB sucks, true. But $300&#x2F;yr for a bank account should not be a deal breaker. You&#x27;ll pay way more than this just to operate the corporation and stay alive.<p>I think I pay around $800&#x2F;yr just to keep the corporation running (almost non-existent accounting, filing fees and franchise taxes to Delaware). And now that I&#x27;m a C Corp I have payroll taxes in addition to salary (~$2k&#x2F;mo). As always, be sure you really need a corporation before you create one. Most of the tax benefits you get with a corporation (e.g. write-offs), you get as a sole proprietor too.<p>Atlas also made filing 2017 taxes trivial, I never even spoke to an accountant, it was a very smooth process.
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burlesona超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve had a good experience with it, except that I agree the migrating to a new Stripe account was a big pain. It&#x27;s really not clear to me why Stripe couldn&#x27;t either (a) add Atlas to your existing account or (b) migrate your old account to the Atlas account. Either of those would have been very much better than the manual migration I did.<p>However, now that it&#x27;s long behind me, I do feel it makes things easier for tracking tax implications of stuff. The work I did testing things before incorporation is all sole-proprietor schedule C, whereas the stuff after incorporation is not. I imagine this is why Stripe has this rule, but it would have been nice if they&#x27;d just said so up front.
abcd_f超过 6 年前
Mods, can you patch the post to expand the bit.ly link?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bit.ly&#x2F;2HhbXjZ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bit.ly&#x2F;2HhbXjZ</a> -&gt; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;mikob&#x2F;3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bdb9" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;mikob&#x2F;3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bd...</a>
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edwinwee超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m really sorry for all the confusion. I work at Stripe and would like to dig into this more. Could you email me at edwin@stripe.com?
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qrush超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve just started to use Stripe Atlas and currently waiting on an EIN thanks to the govt shutdown.<p>So far their support has been very responsive and helpful, and even managed to hook up a referral code to a friend&#x27;s account AND to a separate account of mine that is processing payments via Stripe Connect.<p>I&#x27;m sorry you had a bad time, but just wanted to provide a counterpoint here.
hberg超过 6 年前
This is the reason I created the startup checklist (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;leonar15&#x2F;startup-checklist" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;leonar15&#x2F;startup-checklist</a>)... so founders could know step by step what needs to be done to set up their companies.<p>Since you&#x27;ll eventually have to understand all the legal aspects of operating a business, you might as well start off that way.
eeeeeeeeeeeee超过 6 年前
I completely disagree with this post. I setup an LLC late last year and it was a very pleasant experience via Atlas. They clearly show a checklist of what you need to do, or what you&#x27;re waiting on. They email you along the process, or if they need anything from you. If they need additional verification (IDs) they reach out to you.<p>I would definitely do it again through Atlas and I&#x27;ve told others to do the same.
spectre256超过 6 年前
Fellow Stripe Atlas company founder here. SVB is a bit annoying, but really $25&#x2F;month is probably not worth your time to worry about unless the company is VERY small.<p>Even in our situation, where we are a 2-person consulting company that isn&#x27;t taking any outside investment, and have to run pretty lean (since we only get to eat and have a house every month if we do enough business to cover it), it&#x27;s not worth our time to switch.<p>But at a higher level, the Stripe Atlas (and Stripe in general) people have been SO responsive and helpful that I&#x27;m surprised they haven&#x27;t sorted this out yet. It looks like they&#x27;ve even popped up in this thread, so I hope and suspect that will happen soon.<p>With the AWS credits and how generally easy it was, I would definitely recommend it to others who are looking.
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eries超过 6 年前
I’ve probably helped ten people start a company using Stripe Atlas over the past two years. I know some of them have grown frustrated with SVB and switched banks, but I don’t know any of them who’ve had a bad experience like OP did. Just thought I’d offer these extra data points
allenleein超过 6 年前
[Foreign founder]<p>As a foreign founder. I personally went through the Stripe Atlas last month, no regrets at all. The whole process took longer than I expected but it&#x27;s not their problems (passport name, pic issues...), and I have to say they have pretty solid customer service. Every time I have any issues, they replied my email within 12 hours.
ryanmercer超过 6 年前
&gt;So if you already had some transactions (hope you do if you&#x27;re forming a company)<p>Erm, I wouldn&#x27;t take a cent from a customer without being a proper company. Lack of legal protections, unnecessary tax complications etc.<p>&gt;Third problem, want to switch to Azlo bank so that at least you don&#x27;t have to pay monthly fees? That&#x27;s great except Azlo will tell you that you need to talk to Stripe to do that,<p>Um, I&#x27;m not sure why you you thought Stripe or Azlo should do this for you, a random company can&#x27;t close your company&#x27;s bank account for you and open another account at another bank for your company. You open an account with Azlo, make the minimum deposit. Transfer the rest of the money from SVB and ask SVB to close the account, fill out any necessary paperwork.<p>As far as banks in general, you can go to any bank of your choosing &quot;I&#x27;d like to open a small business account&quot; or &quot;I&#x27;d like to open a business account&quot; and they&#x27;ll say &quot;Great, sit right down! Do you have your...&quot; and rattle off a list of paperwork and identification you need. Small business accounts rarely have minimum balance requirements or monthly fees either.
briandear超过 6 年前
That’s nonsense. I switched my bank to Chase in my Stripe account settings, it took seconds.
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bborn超过 6 年前
Just want to disagree here. Atlas has been great for us, and we had some of the same issues ... moving accounts, closing SVB and moving over to Azlo, all of it went smoothly.
cue232s超过 6 年前
Stripe Atlas was pretty good for me. The most organized corporation I&#x27;ve created yet. I also stopped using and paying SVB, because I forgot about the account and actually never used by account for a whole year so they closed it. I opened an BOA account without issue. My only problem is that the mobile app isn&#x27;t great for ATLAS yet.
imroot超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve went through Stripe Atlas as well -- and didn&#x27;t have any issues whatsoever; When we decided that we didn&#x27;t want to be a C-Corp in DE, we made it before the actual setup, however, when we ran into issues with our process, their support folks were very very helpful and it was zero hassle switching banks.
nathan_f77超过 6 年前
I totally disagree with the conclusion, although I&#x27;ve struggled with some of these issues. The $25&#x2F;mo fee is annoying, and I had to manually migrate some of my subscriptions. But none of these issues have been dealbreakers, and the process has been very streamlined and easy in general. I would highly recommend Stripe Atlas, especially if you&#x27;re starting a company for the first time and don&#x27;t really know what to do. Going through Stripe Atlas was like having an advisor who helps you with every step, and it&#x27;s definitely worth any extra costs.<p>I&#x27;d like to switch to a different bank in the future, but I&#x27;m not a US citizen and I&#x27;m living in a foreign country, so the $25&#x2F;mo fee isn&#x27;t too bad.
osrec超过 6 年前
I think Stripe&#x27;s API is great, but the support has certainly suffered in comparison to the early days. More automated, unhelpful emails than I&#x27;d like. Maybe it&#x27;s inevitable that support and general helpfulness suffer when you grow as quickly as they have?
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nailer超过 6 年前
&gt; Stripe will create an account through SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) for you. You can go ahead and read the reviews on that bank yourself<p>As an SVB customer:<p>- Their UK experience, was, until recently, not updayted since about 2002. 8 point font, the entire width of the page, totally separate from the rest of their banking<p>- They want things confirmed on &#x27;company letterhead&#x27;<p>- They have four different versions of &#x27;balance&#x27; which makes things super confusing<p>- No &#x27;find as you type&#x27; search for transactions<p>- No analytics<p>- Their mobile app is incredible limited<p>- They alerted me to a 700 USD fraudulent card charge, which, after I spent a week investigating, turned out to be a 7 USD card charge<p>The people are great, but SVB sound like a new generation business bank, but they&#x27;re really not. Pick Starling or Monzo or anyone else.
nubela超过 6 年前
Can you recommend which other company you used to incorporate an LLC in Delaware?
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joss82超过 6 年前
Did you try using <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;priceur.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;priceur.com</a> ?<p>It simplifies stripe account migration (and also multi currency pricing).<p>It&#x27;s free for now. Enjoy!<p>Disclaimer: I built it.
vkaku超过 6 年前
I would stop using Stripe if they start dictating what bank I can use.<p>I use Stripe Atlas. I agree that the SVB minimum checking account fee is quite high. So I will look to move to Azlo. If Stripe tells me I can&#x27;t do that, I&#x27;ll start asking customers to wire my payments to the bank directly.<p>I think that I am happy with Stripe handling the paperwork and basic payments for me (and to compensate them for that), but I&#x27;d always want my freedom to run things without extraneous terms.
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shafyy超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve had a couple of friends use Atlas without any problems. I guess your&#x27;s is also a kind of an edge case with all the switching etc. Hope they resolve it quickly!<p>Another question: I also think that SVB sucks but is there a better alternative to it? I&#x27;ve heard of Azlo, but their services offering is not as broad as SVB&#x27;s (e.g. no international transfers)?
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lukethomas超过 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been using Stripe Atlas since the beta and I have experienced a few issues similar to the OP. However, I&#x27;ve also saved a ton of time because Stripe emails me about pending issues&#x2F;changes that I probably wouldn&#x27;t have known about.<p>SVB is ok - the fee is annoying and their UI kind of sucks, but I haven&#x27;t switched yet.
feistypharit超过 6 年前
I was looking at Atlas, but I don&#x27;t live in Delaware, so I&#x27;d still have to deal with managing the business in my home state all myself. That&#x27;s more forms and fees every year I have to do, in addition to the Delaware ones. In my view Atlas only solves half the problem (unless you&#x27;ve in Delaware)
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etaioinshrdlu超过 6 年前
My biggest problem with Stripe is that roughly 50% of transactions are declined! This is a huge business problem. Not uncommon either for Stripe users.<p>I suspect (without proof) that if you are a big trusted entity, Stripe and the whole financial system probably greases the wheels a bit to improve your success rate...
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etaioinshrdlu超过 6 年前
SVB has a reputation as having really bad tech, a bit overly beaurocratic and annoying in general.<p>With one saving grace, they are known to be highly tolerant of unusual situations. Might help if you are running a weird startup.
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laverick超过 6 年前
Anyone know good SVB alternatives that don’t require US residence? Any that can be opened remotely?
aviv超过 6 年前
Dear OP, if this level of minutiae upsets you, building a business may not be for you.
monochromatic超过 6 年前
I won’t do business with Stripe in general, due to their anti-rights stance in refusing firearm&#x2F;weapon transactions.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stripe.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;restricted-businesses" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stripe.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;restricted-businesses</a>
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