No more XS4ALL is unthinkable

328 点作者 lucgommans超过 6 年前

27 条评论

XS4ALL is much more than a competent ISP. It is the essence of the Hacker. The founders are a mix between the EFF and RMS.This 10yo interview with one of the founders (Rop Gonggrijp) is fantastic and covers their fight against Scientology, lock picking, privacy, governments using terrorism as a pretext for power grabs, etc. (in Dutch)1 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptNDlLKYxA" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptNDlLKYxA</a>2 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9e4rlKIFW4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9e4rlKIFW4</a>3 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJMnrT4u0k" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJMnrT4u0k</a>4 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bek2Rrefwlw" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bek2Rrefwlw</a>End of an era.(Anecdote of what I personally greatly admired: they used to run a hybrid SSH server on their main website, "xs4all.nl", on port 80. the SSH protocol is a "server-first" one, but HTTP is "client-first", so if you pause the SSH banner for a few seconds, you can basically host both on the same port. this allowed me to defeat many a draconian proxy back in the day; nobody would block a huge ISP like xs4all.nl on port 80. Truly unique.)

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secure超过 6 年前

A similar ISP, very much alive and kicking, is <a href="https://www.init7.net/en/" rel="nofollow">https://www.init7.net/en/</a> in Switzerland. In particular, with their fiber7 brand (see <a href="https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/" rel="nofollow">https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/</a>), they tick all the boxes mentioned in the article: no caps, fully symmetrical gigabit fiber, ISP actively promoting and pushing net neutrality, ISP actively engaged politically, very knowledgable support staff, etc.

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timvisee超过 6 年前

Has been (and is) my ISP for more than 15 years. It's so sad to see it go, as decided by KPN. Apparently XS4ALL workers new about this decision just 30 minutes before the public announcement.It's also the ISP I definitely have the best support experience with, always happy to help, even with personal projects. It's tragic to see a brand like KPN (which is generally considered quite bad) kill XS4ALL which is generally seen as a quality provider. KPN says nothing will change for existing customers, but I don't believe in that.Sadly the alternatives are very limited. In the area I currently live in I seem to have two other choices, one of which is KPN. Neither come close to what XS4ALL _was_. These alternatives don't properly support IPv6, they force you to use some obscure and locked down router, etcetera.I hope some hardcore XS4ALL workers will fork the company to set up a new ISP to provide similar activities.

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skrebbel超过 6 年前

I really hope this customer petition effort has some effect. It's been amazing that their parent company KPN (for context: a run-of-the-mill huge telco) effectively let them alone, do their own thing, for so long. XS4ALL truly has been a force for good in the Netherlands.I wonder whether numbers are related - admittedly when faced with the choice for a new telco I ended up not choosing XS4ALL simply because they're more expensive than other offerings. Maybe they just gradually shrunk, year after year? That'd be an acceptable reason to shut down, despite how great the company is on other dimensions.

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danieldk超过 6 年前

I am an XS4ALL subscriber and this was very sad news. They are a great provider with a great history.Note that The Netherlands had another (tiny) provider with a similarly long history and hacker ethic, DDS:<a href="https://dds.nl" rel="nofollow">https://dds.nl</a>Ten years ago or so, I was a DDS subscriber. I once send an e-mail to support and was answered by a technically competent sysadmin. If KPN destroys XS4ALL, I might move to DDS again (if they offer fiber in my area).

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mcv超过 6 年前

I haven't been with xs4all since their earliest days because I had internet through my university back then, but I do know them from when they were still called Hacktic Netwerk.They're great. Their helpdesk is widely known to be the best. I've got my digital TV through them, and when I called their helpdesk because it failed to record an episode of Doctor Who, their helpdesk could point me to a website where I could watch it legally. They're geeks like me. In fact, I've known quite a number of people who work/worked there.I'd be really sad to see them go, and I agree with the article: it sounds unlikely that KPN will fight for digital rights the way XS4all has done.Wait, what is this going to mean for my email address? I hope they'll keep xs4all.nl email addresses active, or this is going to cause a lot of problems for me.

Carpetsmoker超过 6 年前

> I lived in Belgium for a while, a country that still has data caps on landline connections, and moved to Germany last year. I have not been able to find an ISP even remotely equivalent across three countries.I had the same issue when I moved to the UK; no equivalent ISP that I could find. Very disappointing :-(The entire thing reminds me of the Laurus debacle[1]; KPN wants to be a "consistent" brand, but in doing so they are alienating a small yet sizeable and incredibly loyal customer base. I was an XS4ALL customer for almost 15 years: from the moment I got my first apartment until I left the country. I never considered switching.[1]: <a href="https://www.npostart.nl/andere-tijden/26-05-2018/VPWON_1283688" rel="nofollow">https://www.npostart.nl/andere-tijden/26-05-2018/VPWON_12836...</a> (Dutch)

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ratel超过 6 年前

I have been a customer with Xs4all since I think 1993. When the uni decided it it might be a good idea to have at least some security policy on their network. Nowadays it just is small stuff I keep around for historical/sentimental reasons. It is to the credit of the good people at Xs4all that they kept their relative independence for so long after being bought. I won't be signing any petitions to keep the label. I would like the experience of a knowledgeable, innovating and activist ISP back which has been slowly deteriorating since the buy-out. I don't care about labels. Keeping the label around for service that is going to be far less is actually not a compliment. Like Ben and Jerry's made by Unilever.So thanks for all the help, discussions and service. It was fun while it lasted.

gpvos超过 6 年前

> It's not some locked down rebranded stuff like with most other ISPs, it's the real deal: your router, you configure it how you want it.Well, they did once force a Fritz!OS upgrade when I wasn't ready for it, even though I disabled the option that allowed them to do that. So they did have a kind of back door on that router at that time. Still a great deal though.

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kornelis超过 6 年前

Even though XS4ALL uses the KPN network, XS4ALL uses their own routers, switches, data centers, and can offer better service and privacy. Not a mere label, the brand XS4ALL. I chose to pay the somewhat higher price (set by KPN by the way) for that service.What I've noticed the past few days is that quite a few people who bemoan XS4ALL going away, actually chose different providers to get lower prices. Seems hypocritical to me, but also in line with what most people seem to prioritize.

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dreamcompiler超过 6 年前

Wait, what?> XS4ALL hosts the the European copy of the Internet Archive since 2004. When I was in their datacenter I saw the box (it has a nice Internet Archive label), but did not realize that it was a complete copy.Is this still true? No way does the IA fit in "a box" today. A building maybe, but not a box.

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vectorEQ超过 6 年前

really tragic. they brought internet to the netherlands and they get put down by some old phone company one who's network they started to pirate internet... it's the only really good isp in the netherlands even though these days is still only a fraction of their glory days. love xs4all, very good and nice company and did a lot of important work for the internet not limited to only the netherlands

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joelhaasnoot超过 6 年前

The other thing to realize is there is essentially two main players on the Dutch Internet market: ADSL (over phone lines run by KPN but any ISP can wholesale their services) and Cable (run mainly by a Ziggo/Vodafone). Cable requires a TV subscription and ADSL requires an active phone line. Both parties have invested in their network quite a bit and have triple/quad play packages (integrating TV, Internet, Phone and Cell Phone).I can in some way understand KPN needs to slim down their offering in order to better compete with Ziggo, but this will likely bite them in the but. Another brand Telfort is also being shuttered: it's their no-support, cheap brand. Generally services sold under KPN's brand are one of the most expensive.I have FTTH from XS4All. FTTH has unfortunately not been rolled out enough. One of the advantage is I can take just the internet line and not have to pay for a phone line or TV service I don't use. There's other ISPs that I could choose from, but Xs4all have a good package, not outrageously expensive.

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fmajid超过 6 年前

I ran technical operations for one of their competitors circa 1999-2000 and many of my employees were fan of theirs...

newfriend超过 6 年前

I used to play Quake 1 on an xs4all server I found on Qspy from the US. Have not heard that name since the mid 90s.

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yqt超过 6 年前

How weasily-worded:>They were bought in '98 by the former state-owned KPNAs if they couldn't avoid it. The owners of XS4ALL sold the business to KPN. They knew what KPN was going to do with it (dismantle all the "cool" stuff) and didn't care, they just wanted their cash.

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thijsvandien超过 6 年前

As recent as yesterday I still saw an XS4ALL commercial on national television. It doesn't make much sense to keep investing in a brand that will soon cease to exist, but perhaps the campaign was planned already before the sudden decision came in.

mrolla超过 6 年前

I feel like this was doomed to happen sooner or later, but I wonder if this happening now has anything to do with the new KPN CEO being appointed last April.

LittlePeter超过 6 年前

I have a not so good experience with them. They cut off our internet during Christmas because allegedly our Windows XP computer was part of a botnet.To me it looked like overzealous, self-righteous Internet policing, but OK.I do not remember if they warned us that they will cut it off, perhaps they did.Proving that the computer was reinstalled and virus free proved to be quite tedious. In the end I ended up cancelling them.

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matonias超过 6 年前

I recently moved away from them since it was much more expensive. I now joined T-Mobile (€40/month for 750mb/s) but they deliver their Wi-Fi with a Huwawei router. A free spy device from China! When I wanted to change it, I found out they do not support customers with different routers. What the .

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rocqua超过 6 年前

In my last move, I had to switch away from xs4all. I always was happy to use them. The ability to open all ports, an essentially static ipv4 address, and even full control over reverse-DNS.I was sad to leave them, I'm even sadder they are shutting down.

jillesvangurp超过 6 年前

Ah too bad, I used them back in 2000 for my first DSL connection. At the time they were one of the first providers offering this.

rkagerer超过 6 年前

Wow, just wow. I would like to buy some of your magic ISP beans please and plant them here in North America.

roffel超过 6 年前

Going to miss their expertise.

timwaagh超过 6 年前

now i'll get to laugh at my dad for being with kpn of all things. and i will no longer have to listen to his arrogant bs about xs4all. praise the lord.

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nopacience超过 6 年前

Plus they run an public IRC server on EFNET IIRC

walterbell超过 6 年前

SpaceX is launching global broadband LEO satellite internet over the next few years. They are developing their own silicon to reduce supply chain issues. Hopefully they bring real competition to the last mile globally, both on policy and price. Target latency is 35ms.<a href="https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/spacexs-falcon-9-rocket-will-launch-thousands-of-broadband-satellites/" rel="nofollow">https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/space...</a>

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