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Nadella: Microsoft will sell war tech to democracies to “protect freedoms”

142 点作者 eysquared超过 6 年前

26 条评论

simonh超过 6 年前
I understand why people are uncomfortable with this, but in the end I&#x27;m with Socrates. If we accept the protection and benefits of a society, it is incumbent on us to contribute to it&#x27;s defence. Furthermore in a democracy we get to vote, and in doing so agree to be bound by it&#x27;s outcome even if we disagree with it. That&#x27;s the deal, like it or not.<p>Of course that doesn&#x27;t mean we can&#x27;t protest, or campaign for a different outcome, or explore legal means to prevent or limit policies we disagree with. Those are legitimate forms of engagement, they&#x27;re taking a stand and taking some personal moral responsibility I can respect. Ultimately though, our freedoms and those of our allies and neighbours have to be fought for if we are going to keep them. Iraq&#x27;s invasion of Kuwait could not be allowed to stand. Russia&#x27;s annexation of Crimea and bullying of Ukraine should not be allowed to stand. Britain&#x27;s occupation of the Chagos islands probably shouldn&#x27;t be allowed to stand either, it&#x27;s not a perfect world.<p>Of course there are extremely complex, dangerous issues that are hard to resolve out there. Those problems won&#x27;t go away by refusing to think or worry about them and refusing to do anything about it. Inaction is just as much of a moral choice with it&#x27;s own potentially catastrophic consequences.<p>I&#x27;m not advising anyone what to do. Sure, make up your own mind. But I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s obvious that refusing to engage is a morally superior position.
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Golfkid2Gadfly超过 6 年前
A lot of the “don’t want to work on killing people” rhetoric is arguably a bit naive. First, sometimes governments legitimately need to use weapons to defend us, and they don’t grow on trees. More relevant to big tech specifically, some of the technologies (facial recognition, AR etc.) can legitimately claim to help improve targeting (and thus reduce chances of killing innocent bystanders). It’s rarely black and white. At the end of the day, if you are an employee who (quite legitimately) is uncomfortable with it, is it ok to petition company should stop, as opposed to simply taking your labor elsewhere?
Tepix超过 6 年前
I don&#x27;t like it. But it raises another problem: What&#x27;s a democracy? Is Turkey a democracy? If not, why not? Is it a flawed [1] democracy then?<p>[1] Like the US? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;world&#x2F;americas&#x2F;america-democracy-rated-donald-trump-not-fully-democratic-us-president-report-the-economist-a8195121.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;world&#x2F;americas&#x2F;america-de...</a>
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hguhghuff超过 6 年前
If&#x2F;when the missiles start flying, I’d like to feel that the US systems are built by America’s best technology companies, which yes, very much includes Microsoft.<p>Other large, economically successful countries are spending huge on military tech and have their best people on it.<p>You’ll care when it matters.<p>If you’ve got a fundamental point of principle disagreement with the idea of there being a military, and the need for countries to project power, then you should perhaps consider working in a different corner of the it industry.<p>If anything, the world is heading to a much more militarized future. Rising economic powers are spending vast amount of money on building modern naval capability. Only a fool would think that now is the time to turn away from the countries need for increased military capability.
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ahartmetz超过 6 年前
The normalization of obvious lies in corporate communication. They are doing it for money and not selling to &quot;bad&quot; governments for maybe ethical, maybe PR, maybe staff protest reasons.
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natch超过 6 年前
Democracies can be just as bad as anything else if there is no protection from tyranny of the majority.
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tibbydudeza超过 6 年前
As we have seen in the case of the US even democratically elected govts do reprehensible stuff like the Iraq invasion and the Contras.
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jhanschoo超过 6 年前
&quot;Si vis pacem, para bellum&quot;—if you wish for peace, prepare for war.
pasta超过 6 年前
A lot of people are switching banks because they don&#x27;t like that their current bank is investing in war.<p>I think Microsoft is going to lose users over this. Not much for sure, but it&#x27;s naive to think people don&#x27;t care.
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berbec超过 6 年前
While I admire pacifists, the sad reality of the world is sometimes you have to stand and fight. Is making tech for war in the interest of ending the conflict, and dying, as quickly as possible &quot;for the greater good&quot;?
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seba_dos1超过 6 年前
Stallman: You have to protect freedom.<p>Nadella: We&#x27;ve got it.
ralph84超过 6 年前
&gt; Some 250 staff are said to have signed the letter<p>So 0.2% of 134,944. That takes vocal minority to a whole new level.
okonomiyaki3000超过 6 年前
It sounds like they&#x27;re doing this with very good intentions and so they will surely pave the way to... somewhere... a better world maybe? I don&#x27;t know, that doesn&#x27;t quite sound right...
dplgk超过 6 年前
Are we also upset about how many military computers run Windows?
devmunchies超过 6 年前
Freedoms such as killing millions a year with opiates? It’s all about letting the big global companies continue to operate in those countries, right?
m-p-3超过 6 年前
All I can foresee is the erosion of freedoms..
bunnycorn超过 6 年前
Meanwhile, I&#x27;ve seen today a video of a new product from a Russian manufacturer (Kalashnikov), of Kamikaze drones.<p>I applaud Nadella.
elken超过 6 年前
I&#x27;m just surprised people think that the Hololens is a useful piece of technology.
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RickJWagner超过 6 年前
The contested sale of 100,000 HoloLens sets....<p>I think Quark has a hand in this, somehow.
m23khan超过 6 年前
could this be tied to India and Pakistan conflict? Maybe Nadella senses $$$ for Microsoft given his connections with India.
DyslexicAtheist超过 6 年前
Github is now a defense contractor
eganist超过 6 年前
tl;dr: Microsoft will sell to any USA-approved entity because their number one goal is to maximize shareholder value as a USA-based corporation.<p>Unless they&#x27;re a public benefit corporation, an FFRDC, or one of any variety of non-profits, this is their only goal. (probably missed a few, but you get the point)<p>---<p>Obvious point aside, here&#x27;s a challenge: if this bothers you as an entrepreneur, start your next idea off as a public benefit corporation or equivalent, or roll your existing firm into one. Tread new ground. Need inspiration? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.navapbc.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.navapbc.com</a><p>Further reading: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Public-benefit_corporation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Public-benefit_corporation</a>
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Calashle0202超过 6 年前
So how come SpaceX employees don&#x27;t revolt over the use of their rockets for military payloads?<p>Elon Musk is literally out there launching a satellite surveillance network to help the military spy on the entire planet, meanwhile Microsoft employees are getting hung up on a headset that will maybe improve their aim, or maybe lead to fewer deaths in the field.<p>Besides that, was there ever a time where Microsoft wasn&#x27;t selling their services to the U.S. military? It&#x27;s hard to resist a contract from the world&#x27;s largest employer.
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rajacombinator超过 6 年前
Why is anyone surprised by this? For Microsoft employees to suddenly worry about the morality of their employer is somewhat laughable.
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senectus1超过 6 年前
Its an interesting conundrum. I dont have an answer for it.<p>Democracies are (supposed to be) representative of the masses. A few angry employee&#x27;s in a tech company are not.<p>Democratically speaking they dont have a right to demand a company doesn&#x27;t make software&#x2F;hardware used in war. Shareholders on the other hand are a perfectly acceptable place to object.
crb002超过 6 年前
Naughty naughty. Selling to DOD is one thing. Becoming an international arms dealer makes me willing to divest Microsoft and everything Microsoft hosted. Ahem <i>Github</i> <i>Linkedin</i> ...