First-class air travel is in decline

Regarding the first class floor in Dubai, it&#x27;s not <i>that</i> empty, it&#x27;s just designed to seem spacious and quiet in order to differentiate from the crowded business floor. But you need to keep in mind that the vast majority of passengers there are just platinum card holders like myself, not actually flying first class. Indeed first class is slowly dying out, I think one thing they miss is that business class has become more and more comfortable across nearly all airlines (especially Emirates on the 380).<p>One thing they don&#x27;t mention is the proliferation of private terminals&#x2F;lounges for commercial flights. There&#x27;s a lot of these in LHR. They have their own security checkpoints, and you&#x27;re ferried by limo straight to the plane, to board first. So you get some of the advantages of flying private, but at a much lower cost (still upwards of 10k a year to get a membership I believe)

This isn&#x27;t news.<p>Premium airlines (eg Qatar) have long since realized that there simply isn&#x27;t sufficient demand for first-class so their newer planes don&#x27;t even have a first class cabin. A big factor is the business class is the new first class. To compare to flying 20+ years ago on international long haul:<p>- You&#x27;d be flying on a 747<p>- Economy would be slightly larger probably<p>- What was then &quot;business&quot; is probably more akin to premium economy now with better food<p>- Business now is better than first class then but first class then probably has more hand-holding. I mean look at a Qatar Qsuite if you want to see how far business has come.<p>I heard a story when Concorde was shelved that the decision to retire the product was:<p>- Planes would need to be brought up to modern standards, which was going to be expensive for 13 (originally 14) planes for a relatively small market. Seriously, the interior of those planes are small; and<p>- Retiring Concorde would bring passengers who would otherwise fly Concorde to flying first-class, which at the time was much more profitable.<p>Not sure how close to the truth this is but I can believe it. Obviously it&#x27;s sad that we lost a capability we once had (crossing the Atlantic in &lt;4 hours) but I wonder if BA&#x2F;AF looked at this too short term. I mean sure first-class is (was) more profitable but then you&#x27;re competing with every other airline when supersonic was a duopoly with a barrier to entry that was practically infinite.

I thought business just became first and premium economy became business class so airlines could get around blind booking restrictions against first class.<p>The apartment&#x2F;suite class is a relatively new marketing gimmick that has nothing to do with traditional first class.

The thing is that modern lie flat business class seats like United&#x2F;Polaris are already way more comfortable than first class was in the “old days.” There’s a big win to flying business. The incremental win of flying first given that you still need to deal with much of the same airport&#x2F;commercial airline stuff is fairly limited.

Would highly recommend the YouTube video below [0] from Wendover, which went pretty in-depth on the economics of airline classes a while ago, and how first-class was the least profitable for the airlines. :)<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc</a>

Excellent! First class is an environmental disaster.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;07&#x2F;27&#x2F;climate&#x2F;airplane-pollution-global-warming.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;07&#x2F;27&#x2F;climate&#x2F;airplane-pollutio...</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;documents.worldbank.org&#x2F;curated&#x2F;en&#x2F;141851468168853188&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;WPS6471.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;documents.worldbank.org&#x2F;curated&#x2F;en&#x2F;141851468168853188...</a>

I need to get to Point A...I am also 6&#x27;5&quot;<p>Ticket: $178 (the fare that shows up on initial search) Luggage fee: $40 Taxes and Fees: $35 Exit Row Seat which may or may not be crowded: $65 (each way)<p>Actual Cost: $400 (Numbers SWAG&#x27;d, but that&#x27;s approx what it costs to round trip from Denver to Baltimore)<p>All I want to do is take a 2 hour flight in relative comfort and the whole thing&#x27;s a bait n switch.<p>That doesn&#x27;t include the TSA Grope, the &#x27;no fluids pass security&#x27;, $12 a day far out distant remote parking, nor leaving the extra time to handle all of the extra fallderal.<p>I can see people getting disenfranchised with the whole deal.

Biggest reason I can think of is that airlines have so heavily invested in business class over last 10 years or so to the point where business is nearly as good as first class has been at a fraction of the price.<p>I&#x27;ve had the privilege of flying international first and business class flights several times over past few years using points (including Singapore Suites), and business class has gotten so good (lie flat reverse herringbone configuration) that there&#x27;s hardly a difference between the two except a slightly bigger seat and marginally better food but 3x the price.<p>We are living in the golden age of business class travel.

Flying private has always been one of my bucket list items, but the fact that flying US coast-to-coast private has the same carbon footprint as 10k Americans(!) use per year is kind of appalling. There&#x27;s a certain level of FU that&#x27;s hard to rationalize.

Wait, business class and first class aren&#x27;t the same? Never seen a plane with three classes.

As the article mentions, business class today often offers a comfort which was not long ago not even available in first class. Which also unfortuantely means that business class becomes less and less accessible for business travellers as companies are watching &quot;costs&quot; for most but upper management.

I fly first-class only when upgraded or flying on miles. It&#x27;s priced itself out of the market.<p>I fly business-class only for long hauls, especially if the airfare is covered and if I am supposed to be wide-awake a cogent the day following the trip. I usually specify contractually that flights longer than four hours are to be business-class or better.<p>I usually prefer the premium-economy seating because it is, for me, much more comfortable than the business-class seats. A recent premium-economy transcontinental trip on an Air France A380 was, without question, the very best ever.<p>Recent business-class seats have, for me, much in common with the rack, a mid-evil torture instrument; the design is such that there is no way to get physically comfortable since lying on my back is not an option.

<i>A new breed of supersonic executive jets will be even more polluting. The International Council on Clean Transportation, a think-tank, estimates that their emissions will be five to seven times greater than for standard jets. Boom, one of the startups hoping to produce these jets, has forecast that up to 2,000 such supersonic aircraft will be built by 2035.</i><p>They should make these guys go carbon neutral by installing CO2 scrubbers or similar for every plane they sell. There&#x27;s no reason we all have to suffer the consequences of the super rich wasteful behaviour.

My corp sends me out to conferences or remote offices several times a year, sometimes internationally. I can book business class if total in-air time is greater than six hours.<p>I know first class still exists but every time I fly biz class, that cabin is the ultimate premium cabin for the flight. There might be premium economy or whatever but biz class is functionally first class for the airlines and routes I typically fly (Delta, Air France)<p>As an aside, the new Delta One suites are _amazing_ and have totally ruined even &quot;regular&quot; business class lay-flat seats for me.

I think economic forces are party to blame for this. Business class has gotten so much cheaper and better these days that it&#x27;s hard to justify paying for first. The amount of competition among airlines trying to outdo each other in the quality of business class has led to really high quality products and low fares.<p>As a result, airlines are struggling to sell first. First cabins are regularly half empty. I&#x27;ve had many flights where I&#x27;m the only passenger in the first cabin, or with every guest having a separate seat for lounging and sleeping given low load factors.<p>A decade ago, business class wasn&#x27;t so good, with angle-flat or recliner seats. Even when the seats were lie-flat, they were seldom private and with direct aisle access. It wasn&#x27;t a comfortable experience, so for those who could, going first made sense.<p>This has led many airlines to reduce first class, or ditch it entirely. Singapore&#x27;s first class product went from 8 seats to 4. United killed its GlobalFirst product entirely. American hardly has any routes. Malaysian is ditching first. In the western hemisphere, the only airlines with a real first class product left are Swiss, Lufthansa, and Air France. British and American also offer first, though have a poor non-competitive product.<p>Asia and the middle east is the only place left where first class is alive and strong. (The lands of the nouveau riche)

Anyone who&#x27;s flown business or even Premium Economy on long-haul flights knows that this isn&#x27;t surprising.<p>Even Premium Economy on Lufthansa is basically what Business Class used to be - wider, bigger seats, no shared armrests, power ports, a large TV, unlimited drinks, food served on real plates with real knives and forks. You do need to share a lav with Economy, though. You even get a kit of an eye mask and other goodies.

A data point on the luxury level of Business: I once saw the Dalai Lama while boarding a flight to India. He was seated in Business, not First.

First class is probably all nice and cool but given how comfortable business is, I couldn&#x27;t care less about any fancier service. Just give me flat bed on 13h flight so I can sleep! Bigger screen? Don&#x27;t care. Fancier food? Don&#x27;t care.<p>That said, I&#x27;d love to one day fly the first class where they have a bar. Would be cool to sip cocktails and chat with fellow travelers!

TBH I think the airlines kinda fucked themselves on this one.<p>The whole meme was to make people walk through first class so that they would see what they&#x27;re missing. Problem is, most people are doing domestic hops and in most cases they just aren&#x27;t missing that much (I regularly do a 2 hop 40 minute then 1 hour flight that doesn&#x27;t even finish drink service by the time you&#x27;re ready to land).<p>International sure and I&#x27;m sure the airlines make sure they make bank on those flights. But if I&#x27;m going to take maybe 1 international round trip every couple of years I&#x27;m probably not going to spring for first class if I can instead put that money into whatever I&#x27;m doing where I&#x27;m going.

First-class air travel in American is in decline because American corporations can deduct business class airfare more easily than first class airfare.<p>IIRC, the only domestic airline in America with first-class is American Airlines. The other legacy carriers have gotten rid of it, premium economy is one of the fastest growing classes of air fare.

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;mqZDVV" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;mqZDVV</a>

It&#x27;s still pretty rare to have a private jet which can do transpacific flights -- particularly since it&#x27;s usually to&#x2F;from specific gateway cities, too. CX, SQ, JL, QR, EK F is more comfortable than a fractional-ownership G650 and costs about 10% as much.

Not surprised to read this. Glad to see a post outlining why 1st class travel isn&#x27;t as profitable as it seems, including how even Emirates, which sells the most 1st class seats notes that 1st and business-class constitute ~40% of its turnover - a significant but not majority portion. On a previous discussion, some were skeptical when I&#x27;d mentioned how the bulk of total airline sales and profit comes from economy, despite the higher average margin for business&#x2F;1st class tickets[1].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18358650" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18358650</a>

So if first class is empty, and economy class is packed, who is paying for the flight? If 1&#x2F;3 of the aircraft is dedicated to first class, are they paying 1&#x2F;3 of the total cost? If not, aren&#x27;t economy-class passengers effectively subsidizing first class?<p>On individual flights this no doubt happens, one class being full the other empty[1]. But if first-class travel is down across the board, and prices are not adjusted accordingly, we might be in a situation where the poor are indeed subsidizing the rich.<p>[1] Let&#x27;s not kid ourselves. Economy cabins are <i>always</i> packed.

One of the problems I see with first class is the overpricing. As a frequent domestic flyer (~once per month) it&#x27;s almost impossible to get enough points&#x2F;credit to make it affordable. I&#x27;d even personally pay for a first class upgrade on a business flight if it wasn&#x27;t $300+. A delta flight from Seattle or Portland to NY is roughly $450 depending on when you book. To then charge $300 for first class seems wrong.

Because First class is just overpriced business class on most airlines. I fly Business and First all the time with churned miles. First tends to offer more privacy, but if I had to, I wouldn’t mind paying cash for Business. I’d never pay cash for First.

I spoke to a manager at a major airline - he told me that their research told them that many of their first class passengers are now renting private jets instead. Just another artifact of our &quot;winner takes all&quot; economic systems.

Highly recommend &quot;Hard Landing&quot; by Thomas Petzinger Jr. if you&#x27;re interested in this sort of subject.<p>Unit economics for commercial aviation have changed substantially since the industry&#x27;s inception.

People that would have done that decades ago have private jets now, and it&#x27;s a terrible deal for the amenities offered in almost every other case.

If it keeps more availability open for award flights, that&#x27;s fine with me!

TLDR; First-class is disappearing in favor of business-class (which is good enough for many of the previous first-class fliers) or private flights (which are becoming more affordable).