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Against Willpower (2017)

132 点作者 user_235711大约 6 年前

17 条评论

__MatrixMan__大约 6 年前
I thought I came up with this independently--glad to hear it&#x27;s not just me.<p>I quit smoking by pretending there were three of me: past, present, and future. Initially, it was up to present me to conspire with past me to trick future me into doing what we wanted. This took the form of letting my social group see me tearing a cigarette into little pieces every time I usually would smoke one. Destroyed about two cartons this way. I knew they&#x27;d make fun of future me for being so wasteful if I ever started smoking again.<p>Once we got a bit of traction when it comes to reigning in that jerk (future me) we began to realize that diplomacy was more effective than trickery. The compromise now is exactly one cigarette per year. Five years in and I think all parties are happy with the agreement. There&#x27;s a sort of trans-temporal respect we&#x27;re building.<p>This may sound like the ravings of a madman, but people occasionally comment on how balanced and in control I seem to be. I think it&#x27;s a better way.
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goldemerald大约 6 年前
I feel like the other commenters here are missing the point of the article. The current scientific understanding of motivation and willpower is severely lacking. The author is pointing out this fact. And while he does not have a thorough discussion about a solution, it doesn&#x27;t take away from his thesis: willpower is poorly defined.
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dade_大约 6 年前
My experience managing my own procrastination for years makes me think this could be true. I go to the gym to avoid cleaning my aquarium, I&#x27;ll rewrite a software module for a personal project to avoid some undesirable work. The avoiding activity doesn&#x27;t seem to take any willpower, but does when they become the avoided activity. Last winter I didn&#x27;t go on vacation, but took 2 weeks off to catch up on personal projects and training, etc and what I realized is that those side projects require more than full time hours. As the story about the wine drinking lawyer in the blog post, maybe the problem is we don&#x27;t really appreciate how much stress we are under. It causes anxiety that makes it extremely difficult to act.
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darawk大约 6 年前
This article does nothing to demolish willpower as a concept. It&#x27;s strikingly poorly argued. Yes, there are tactical transformations of concepts or situations you can make to encourage yourself to do the right thing. If you want to diet, not keeping potato chips in the house is easier than having them there and white-knuckle resisting them every moment of your life (or it is for me at least). However, <i>both</i> of those things take a certain level of willpower. The second one may take exponentially more, and therefore be a bad choice to make, but it takes some level of will to even avoid buying the chips.<p>The author tries to present it as though the mere fact that you can have cognitive strategies for improving these decisions destroys the concept of willpower. But it doesn&#x27;t. Both of these things can be true. We need to get better at teaching people how to re-conceptualize things to improve their willpower, but they also need to have some in the first place! If you have no willpower, all the strategies in the world aren&#x27;t going to prevent you from eating that cupcake.<p>I will also add that I am a former addict, and had the same experience as his patient. A big part of quitting for me was indeed a reconceptualization of the issue. But that doesn&#x27;t mean it didn&#x27;t <i>also</i> take will. If you tell people in treatment that all they need to do is reframe their addiction, you&#x27;re lying to them, and they&#x27;re not going to get better. Yes, reframing is important, and so is a life-architecture that avoids dangerous situations, but there are going to be moments in their lives where their drug of choice is available to them, and in those moments, there is no substitute for will.
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Glyptodon大约 6 年前
Self-control is a really important skill and it seems to be somehow trained&#x2F;learned&#x2F;acquired. To the extent that it&#x27;s analogous to willpower I don&#x27;t find the author terribly persuasive.<p>Though I do agree it is pretty well known that ego depletion isn&#x27;t replicating and that there&#x27;s no magical way to strain your mind like some sort of non-fraudulent Uri Geller and achieve &quot;willpower.&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t think the article made its point cleanly.
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beat大约 6 年前
For those interested in this subject, I recommend reading <i>Atomic Habits</i>. A lot of what gets credited to &quot;willpower&quot; (whether a success or a failure) is really a function of habits. Becoming conscious of habits, and changing triggers, stacking habits, etc, are <i>far</i> more powerful than &quot;willpower&quot;.<p>And, as the author pointed out, &quot;willpower&quot; is used as an excuse for injustice. That should make us uncomfortable, not more comfortable.
dcow大约 6 年前
So what do we call it? Resolve?<p>It’s a very interesting article with a tantalizing suggestion that if we just redefine the problem, then we can pass the blame and find other solutions. But I don’t think I buy the logic. Take the litterbug example. The author argues that a more finessed understanding of what motivates people means we don’t have to hold people responsible for littering and can look at big soda for manufacturing litter in the first place. It’s tempting, who doesn’t hate soda these days? But if we don’t hold people responsible for their actions then who is? How do you structure ethics and laws in a socierlty built on preserving individual liberty if you delete ego?<p>I’m sure in psychology it’s useful to understand how priorities shift and evolve over time. I hear the point that scientific understanding is lacking. Great! But I’m not sure I’m onboard for the extent to which the author argues this should impact our society with respect to human ego. Maybe I’m just not ready to submit to the swarm...
jkingsbery大约 6 年前
&gt; Ideas about willpower and self-control have deep roots in western culture, stretching back at least to early Christianity, when theologians like Augustine of Hippo used the idea of free will to explain how sin could be compatible with an omnipotent deity.<p>Depending on one&#x27;s definitions, &quot;willpower&quot; and &quot;temperance&quot; are synonymous. While Augustine certainly wrote about self-control both in Free Will and Confessions, he was largely borrowing ideas from Cicero, who largely borrowed from Aristotle and Plato (see e.g., <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cardinal_virtues" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cardinal_virtues</a> for a history of this). I don&#x27;t understand why the author would only go as far as Augustine instead of the 800 years earlier than Plato. The distinction matters because this isn&#x27;t just a thing that Christians made up to figure out how to make life compatible with a deity we happen to believe in, it&#x27;s an idea that many thinkers independent of religious perspective have agreed with as an important aspect of having virtue, happiness, eudaimonia, or whatever other term one wants to use.<p>&gt; The limited-resource concept likely has its roots in Judeo-Christian ideas about resisting sinful impulses<p>Citation needed. It seems the much more common notion in Western or Judeo-Christian tradition is that all the virtues are practiced habits, and we therefore get better at them as we do them more often. This can be seen in either the writings or living example of at least the following: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, the St. Benedict, St. Anthony and the Desert Fathers, and Francis of Assisi, but probably in lots more.<p>If the author&#x27;s claim (that the Judeo-Christian taught the limited-resource concept) were true, then fasting or abstinence like many of us are doing now in Lent would make no sense - fasting is an exercise in willpower. If using willpower made you more likely to not use it later, making it more likely to sin, fasting would make you more likely to sin, not less likely, which would be the opposite of what it&#x27;s trying to accomplish.<p>If I recall correctly, I think many of them also said something about when free will is impaired, so although the author does the standard &quot;look, these people were simple and thought X,&quot; trope, I think it&#x27;s a great deal more complicated than that.<p>Obviously, the usual qualifications apply - one may not agree with any of the above, but it seems that one should represent it accurately.
sonnyblarney大约 6 年前
I think that patterns of behaviour, and avoiding circumstances and triggers, and even things like cognitive behaviour therapy can have a profound effect, so maybe it&#x27;s that &#x27;willpower&#x27; is important, but it&#x27;s only in a given context ...<p>Once I&#x27;m in the habit of going to the gym, it&#x27;s a lot easier. I&#x27;ve allocated the time. I know the ins and outs, my gear is ready, I know what I&#x27;m going to do, it&#x27;s the &#x27;natural course of action&#x27; for the day.<p>It takes much less &#x27;willpower&#x27; to rationalize doing (or not doing something) when the forces you&#x27;re up against are different.<p>Also, I think some people have much greater perspective of consequences. Some people live in the moment, and want the rush or feeling of whatever they&#x27;re about to do. Others can rationalize better how it will affect their lives down the line.<p>I&#x27;m just a little wary of somehow rejecting the notion that &#x27;will&#x27;, especially as it relates to choice ... doesn&#x27;t even exist.
dang大约 6 年前
Discussed at the time: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13559072" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13559072</a>
arthur5005大约 6 年前
Genuinely insightful. Great article.
mrrobotchicken大约 6 年前
I wish the article mentioned more about how John and Thomas are similar. Cause topic for me felt like &quot;men without self=control&quot; and gender is not mentioned once, baffling. Could not continue to read.
dwags大约 6 年前
if it works for you then keep on keepin&#x27; on
dragontamer大约 6 年前
I&#x27;ve taken precisely one psychology class in my entire life, back in High School. But the most important lesson of Psychology was that Psychology itself is a very young field filled with dangerous pseudoscience. (The only younger field is maybe Computer Science, but even Comp. Sci has mathematical traditions that go back centuries). There&#x27;s a ton of false-science which &quot;sounds correct&quot; but fails to yield any real results when under test.<p>For example, Sigmon Freud, while one of the first true scientific minds of Psychology, still created the theory of Psychosexuality. The full theories of psychosexuality is utterly insane by today&#x27;s standards (Ex: Freud&#x27;s theory that male children undergo an &quot;Phallic phase&quot; wherein they develop Oedipus Complex and sexual attraction for their mother: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Oedipus_complex" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Oedipus_complex</a>), but its important to study them if only to understand how easily pseudo-science develops. Also, lots of people still believe in Sigmon Freud&#x27;s ramblings, even today (Ex: Freud&#x27;s &quot;Anal Retentive&quot; and &quot;Anal Expulsive&quot; theories are still colloquial concepts, even as modern psychologists have dismissed the idea). So knowing the pseudo-science helps you dismiss the irrelevant stuff.<p>So under this context: is &quot;Willpower&quot; just as busted as a concept as Freud&#x27;s Psychosexuality? By demonstrating &quot;Willpower&#x27;s&quot; roots in Victorian-era literature, this article really speaks to those who have actually studied Psychology: this was a dangerous era that was filled with pseudo-science. And therefore, we must question the concept of Willpower.<p>----------<p>With that being said: pseudo-scientific concepts may give rise to true science. The pseudo-science of Alchemy gave rise to Chemistry (Robert Boyle: an Alchemist, is credited with both Chemistry and the modern Scientific Method). But its important to recognize pseudoscience, so we can advance as a people. Alchemists were very wrong about &quot;elements wish to return to perfection: closer to God&quot;... but those Alchemists were the ones who first defined the elements to begin with!<p>And Freud&#x27;s ideas of Id, Ego, and Superego ultimately gave rise to modern Psychology and experiments. Perhaps &quot;Willpower&quot; should be treated in the same respect. There&#x27;s clearly an element of self-control that exists, but it is perhaps poorly understood by... at least... laypeople.<p>Once again, I&#x27;m not very studied in Psychology. But I do know enough about Skinner-boxes and the strong scientific experiments that define addiction. Getting people addicted to something is a very well understood science (precisely exploited by Slot Machines and Loot Crates in modern video games). We all want a solution to addiction, but whatever the answer... its not well understood by laypeople yet.<p>-----------<p>The article may be a bit provocative by dismissing Willpower from the get-go. But I&#x27;m in agreement with its discussion. Perhaps willpower as a concept is at least partially incompatible with reality. But how is it wrong? What concepts of Willpower are false? And is there any nugget of truth we can extract from the concept of Willpower?
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angelorck大约 6 年前
Whats the concept of Will Power? You as an individual giving orders to yourself to act like in a certain way. And remember your so called will power is vulnerable to your surroundings and nature. And its gonna break you at some point. Instead of &quot;Will Power&quot; take &quot;responsibility&quot; for your actions and accept you have to change for your better future.
danschumann大约 6 年前
If you&#x27;re trying to get up and don&#x27;t feel like it.. flex one muscle really hard like your abs.. then a few seconds later your brain will let u get up
OldSchoolJohnny大约 6 年前
There is no such thing as &quot;willpower&quot; and there is also no such thing as &quot;motivation&quot; (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;swlh&#x2F;theres-no-such-thing-as-motivation-e02edd7de30" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;swlh&#x2F;theres-no-such-thing-as-motivation-e...</a>). These are both complementary pre-scientific beliefs. Modern, well done science is pretty conclusive on these matters and it needs to be more widely known so we can progress forward as a species.