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The Case for Formal Methods

117 点作者 stevekrouse大约 6 年前

7 条评论

spiralganglion大约 6 年前
Steve Krouse&#x27;s Future of Coding project is a fantastic resource for people working on programming languages, systems, editors, and other tools-for-making-our-tools. I heartily recommend anyone interested in the space spend some time poking around the <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org</a> website.<p>Some of my favourite episodes of the podcast:<p>• Compassion &amp; Programming: Glen Chiacchieri - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;026" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;026</a><p>• Exploring Dynamicland: Omar Rizwan - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;028" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;028</a><p>• The Edges of Representation: Katherine Ye - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;034" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;034</a><p>• Samantha John of Hopscotch on Learnable Programming - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;005" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;futureofcoding.org&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;005</a>
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jononor大约 6 年前
I found this talk (by the same person being interviewed) to be concise and convincing on how to do better than typical practice, without going to full formal methods.<p>Hillel Wayne - Beyond Unit Tests: Taking Your Testing to the Next Level - PyCon 2018 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MYucYon2-lk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MYucYon2-lk</a>
commandlinefan大约 6 年前
I&#x27;ve been hearing about formal methods and provable specifications as long as I&#x27;ve been programming (which is going on 30 years now), and I remain skeptical about them. This sort of thing appeals to me - I&#x27;ve skimmed over TLA+ and I like the appearance of mathematical formalism (after all, I spent 6 years getting a master&#x27;s degree in CS, it would be nice if I could ever actually apply any of it for once), but all the examples I&#x27;ve ever seen take up an incredibly long amount of time to specify&#x2F;prove things that are actually... ridiculously trivial, like a FIFO. Now it&#x27;s entirely possible that there&#x27;s something really significant here, and I just haven&#x27;t invested the time to dig down into this enough to understand it, but I feel the same way about React, and it seems like everybody on the planet has spent the time and effort making sense of React and has found it worthwhile - so why doesn&#x27;t anybody else seem to be applying formal methods?
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brbrodude大约 6 年前
Has anyone also read this book: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Modeling-Software-Finite-State-Machines&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0849380863" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Modeling-Software-Finite-State-Machin...</a> ? I&#x27;ve actually stopped at 56% or so when it starts plugging their proprietary solution as mentioned in one of the reviews, the previous part being the theory of it, I very much enjoyed it though.<p>I had not learned about automata theory and electric engineering formal methods before, so I&#x27;m still trying to piece it together, seeing if I can fit this to my work and such, seemed very promising and kind of a &quot;missing piece&quot; in the puzzle to me. In that it seems to really allow to better model system behavior in a way that potentially could bind it to a spec, give new tools for seeing blindspots, etc, at the same being abstract enough that you could capture much with actions, control values, conditions and states.
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pron大约 6 年前
I&#x27;ve written some comments about this interview on the TLA+ subreddit: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;tlaplus&#x2F;comments&#x2F;bc37db&#x2F;future_of_coding_podcast_38_the_case_for_formal&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;tlaplus&#x2F;comments&#x2F;bc37db&#x2F;future_of_c...</a>
paperplatoon大约 6 年前
this guy needs to formally verify his explanations. they are pretty weasly and convoluted. not sure anything of value in this
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Animats大约 6 年前
But first, a word from our sponsor.<p>(<i>&quot;SK: Before I bring you Hillel, a quick message from our sponsor.&quot;</i> That&#x27;s actually in the article.)
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