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The Whanganui River in New Zealand is a legal person

103 点作者 sricola大约 6 年前

12 条评论

chriselles大约 6 年前
I spend a LOT of time on the Whanganui River.<p>What a great article, thanks for sharing!<p>If it is a legal person then I know quite a few people who would like the Whanganui River to be held accountable for its actions in the destruction of personal property. Haha.<p>About 20km up the River is a wool shed I’ve been visiting since 2011.<p>On it is a marker of the highest known modern flooding level.<p>It was shockingly high.<p>Since that time there has been 2 major bouts of river flooding.<p>The most recent was metres above the last record high(above wool shed roofline).<p>That river is bipolar.<p>Absolutely beautiful and deceptively dangerous.<p>The Whanganui River is like an old girlfriend who will always have my heart, but it’s best we spent most of our time apart.<p>It changes literally right before your eyes.<p>Riverside erosion in real time, and rain upriver can raise the river height and speed faster than any other river I have spent time on.<p>It’s like nature on time lapse.<p>A good friend and mentor is on the local Iwi(Maori Tribe) governance board.<p>The best part is there is no mobile phone connectivity up the river.<p>Only hardline or satphone.
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alasdair_stark大约 6 年前
I canoed down the Whanganui over Christmas a couple of years ago. It&#x27;s one of New Zealand&#x27;s &#x27;Great Walks&#x27; with huts to stay in along the way.<p>We were told that the Māori considered the river to be a person and as a sign of respect we should not wash ourselves in it. Aside from that, it did not effect our trip.<p>If anyone is interested, there&#x27;s more information here - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.doc.govt.nz&#x2F;parks-and-recreation&#x2F;places-to-go&#x2F;manawatu-whanganui&#x2F;places&#x2F;whanganui-national-park&#x2F;things-to-do&#x2F;tracks&#x2F;whanganui-journey&#x2F;#page-id-7061" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.doc.govt.nz&#x2F;parks-and-recreation&#x2F;places-to-go&#x2F;ma...</a>
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sandworm101大约 6 年前
Legal personhood is much misunderstood. There is no grand set of rights attached to all persons. There are an infinite different types of persons, entities to which some rights are attached but never all. We in the west normally understand &quot;persons&quot; as in flesh-and-blood physical people but even then what rights a person has depends on all sorts of things, from the location of their birth, to their age, sex, mental capacity, education or wealth. And yes, race can still alter a person&#x27;s rights under the law. What matters is not the &quot;person&quot; label but what rights this court is willing to recognize at attach to this new type of person.
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inflatableDodo大约 6 年前
Here&#x27;s a link to the paper mentioned at the end of the article; &quot;Should Trees Have Standing?&quot; by Christopher Stone - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;iseethics.files.wordpress.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;02&#x2F;stone-christopher-d-should-trees-have-standing.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;iseethics.files.wordpress.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;02&#x2F;stone-christop...</a>
yayr大约 6 年前
I find this philosophical debate very fascinating. What actually is a person? e.g. one definition claims<p>PERSON = &quot;any entity that has the moral right of self-determination.&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mind.ilstu.edu&#x2F;curriculum&#x2F;what_is_a_person&#x2F;what_is_a_person.php" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mind.ilstu.edu&#x2F;curriculum&#x2F;what_is_a_person&#x2F;what_i...</a><p>so can a confinable area of nature like a river, a mountain, a planet etc. be such an entity with those rights? Who grants those rights? How is self-determination recognized?<p>For humans the latter is leading to the free will debate, see e.g. here for a start <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikibooks.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Introduction_to_Philosophy&#x2F;What_is_a_Person" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikibooks.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Introduction_to_Philosophy&#x2F;Wha...</a><p>so in essence, if a significant amount of humans agree, that the criteria for self-determination are not only the strict ones expressed by humans, why should a natural entity not be treated like a person?<p>edit: the initial reaction so far has been: it can not stand up in court so it cannot be a LEGAL person. So one could challenge: a company can as well not speak in court. The only ones speaking in court are representatives that got somehow chosen. Why could the same not be applied to the person in discussion here?
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paulhallett大约 6 年前
This is the second place in Aotearoa New Zealand to be given this status, the first being Te Urewera. The NZ government grants these rights due to their Tapu for the Maori people.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Te_Urewera" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Te_Urewera</a>
tjpnz大约 6 年前
It seems to be having a positive impact on pollution, I wonder if similar could be done for other rivers. For those who don&#x27;t know many New Zealand rivers are toxic cesspits thanks to years of intensive dairy farming. It&#x27;s something that successive governments seem unwilling to act on thanks to lobbying from the dairy industry.
teddyh大约 6 年前
Wasn’t there a river in the US who was going to get this too?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satwcomic.com&#x2F;a-whole-new-world" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satwcomic.com&#x2F;a-whole-new-world</a>
jaydenseric大约 6 年前
This is beyond stupid. A lot of practical questions were not answered in the article…<p>- What is the date of birth and gender of this &quot;legal person&quot;?<p>- Is it a New Zealand citizen?<p>- How will the river enroll to vote? How will the river pay it&#x27;s fines when it fails to vote?<p>- What will happen when the river breaks its banks and destroys property, and someone sues it for damages? Will it be in contempt of court for not showing up to appearances?<p>- If New Zealand enters a major war, can the river be drafted for military service? How do you fine or imprison a river for draft dodging?<p>- Where the river releases it&#x27;s fluids at the beach, is it engaging in public urination?<p>- If a policeman issues it with a lawful order, and it fails to comply, can it be arrested?
_bxg1大约 6 年前
Better them than corporations.
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khawkins大约 6 年前
This is philosophical drivel that has only the effect of making politicians seem like they care about the environment. The notions of harm or injustice with respect to the environment are all socially constructed human values we imbue them with.<p>If I dump waste in the river, the river or its creatures aren&#x27;t going to march into court and demand justice, people will. They will say they are acting on behalf of the interests of the river, its ecosystem, or its living things, but rivers are unthinking geographical features and the animals aren&#x27;t choosing these advocates.<p>You don&#x27;t need to engage in such theatrics to protect the environment.
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peeters大约 6 年前
Title is incorrect. It is <i>a</i> Maori River, not <i>The</i> Maori River being talked about here. It is <i>The</i> Whanganui River. National Geographic&#x27;s title is also confusing, but not outright incorrect as posted here.
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