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Photography and racial bias

74 点作者 kwindla大约 6 年前

13 条评论

kwindla大约 6 年前
I posted this, and definitely wasn&#x27;t thinking of it as clickbait, or even as controversial. As Dan says, I think this history is both intellectually interesting and relevant to my work as an engineer, today.<p>Over time, as the technology of photography was invented and iteratively improved, film formulations came to work better for taking photographs of light-skinned people than of dark-skinned people. Inventors and engineers didn&#x27;t set out to disadvantage dark-skinned people specifically. But it happened anyway.<p>In the relatively short history of commercial &quot;AI&quot;, we&#x27;ve already seen examples of machine learning systems that followed a similar development path. Non-representative data sets[0], replicating existing bias[1], over-fitting data sets to the point where the outcomes violate non-discrimination laws[2], etc.<p>One way to help avoid making these mistakes is to think about how they were made in the past, in other engineering contexts.<p>[0]-<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2016&#x2F;04&#x2F;the-underlying-bias-of-facial-recognition-systems&#x2F;476991&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2016&#x2F;04&#x2F;the-u...</a> [1]-<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;10&#x2F;10&#x2F;17958784&#x2F;ai-recruiting-tool-bias-amazon-report" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;10&#x2F;10&#x2F;17958784&#x2F;ai-recruiting-t...</a> [2]-<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;3&#x2F;21&#x2F;18275746&#x2F;facebook-settles-ad-discrimination-lawsuits" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;3&#x2F;21&#x2F;18275746&#x2F;facebook-settles-ad-d...</a>
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jdietrich大约 6 年前
Dark-skinned faces are inherently more difficult to photograph. Dark skin is in the lowest range of values in most images, but the specular highlights of that skin can reach the highest range of values. Underexpose and you lose all shading; overexpose and you lose the geometric definition given by specular highlights.<p>Pale skin can be made easier to photograph in challenging lighting conditions by using a matte powder, which diffuses specular highlights and reduces the value range. This doesn&#x27;t work well on dark skin, because subtle shadows are less visible and you lose the impression of shape; you need the specular highlights, but they greatly increase the value range.<p>The problem with early colour films wasn&#x27;t really hue (all human skin falls into a remarkably narrow range of hues), but a lack of sensitivity and dynamic range compared to monochrome films. They coped with over-exposure reasonably well, but even slight under-exposure would obliterate the detail on dark skin. This limitation of chemistry was a constant problem in all forms of colour photography, but the social burden fell disproportionately on dark-skinned portraiture subjects. Later emulsions had far better rendition of lowlights and smooth compression of highlights, which vastly improved their performance with dark skin.
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js2大约 6 年前
Fascinating. For about a decade my father owned a one-hour photo lab back in the eighties. I worked for him.<p>When he purchased the equipment for his lab, he didn’t have a ton of money so the equipment was only semi automated. There were two machines, one to develop the color negative film and another to make prints.<p>I operated the printing machine. This involved sitting at a console and feeding each strip of negatives (typically 36 frames) one image at a time over a lamp which lit the negative from below. I then punched some buttons to make each print. I was assisted by a computer. But the computer was dumb. It looked at the negative and tried to average out the exposure so that the resulting print on average would be grey. 18% grey to be exact.<p>So my job was to look at this inverse negative that was 1” x 1.5”, figure out what the scene actually was, then override the computer’s exposure and color balance to get a correct print. 12 minutes later when the print had developed I’d know if I guessed correctly.<p>On a good day, I’d print about 100 rolls of film, 3600 prints, and maybe I’d have to redo about 36 of those.<p>Now this was in Miami and so I was printing picture of every subject and skin type under the sun.<p>And the funny thing is, I don’t recall ever noticing, particularly, that there were any issues with prints of persons of color.<p>What I do remember distinctly is that my dad and I never agreed on blue&#x2F;yellow color balance. I thought he made everyone look like Smurfs. I pleaded with him to look at the whites of people’s eyes. Never won that battle. It was his shop.<p>Also, beach scenes. Snow scenes. Cameras and film often (counterintuitively) underexposed those.<p>But this was long ago and maybe I didn’t notice or don’t remember.
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dang大约 6 年前
All: this post was flagged. But it is obviously intellectually interesting and therefore on topic here, regardless of one&#x27;s views on race and other issues. It&#x27;s full of fascinating detail, and even has a technical aspect for the less-curious among us who only find technical things interesting. I&#x27;ve turned off the flags and rolled back the timestamp on the post.<p>We can debait the title a bit, but a substantive article with a slightly baity title is not one that should be flagged. If the title is your issue, you&#x27;re welcome to let us know at hn@ycombinator.com, or suggest a better title in the thread, which we&#x27;ll happily use if we see the suggestion.<p>One last thing: if you&#x27;re going to comment on a thread like this, can you please top up on the site guidelines first? Especially this one: <i>Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.</i> Remember that we&#x27;re going for good conversation—respectful and two-sided—rather than ideological or political battle.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a>
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marmada大约 6 年前
It is unclear to me why there is &quot;inherited bias&quot; in film&#x2F;photography technology. Inherited bias implies that the biased film practices of the past have spilled over into the present, causing further racial bias in photography.<p>While it&#x27;s true that photography in the past was racially biased, it is unclear why modern photography is still racially biased. It may just be genuinely harder to photograph dark skin, after all, the article even says that attempts have been made to fix racial bias in photography.<p>All of this being said, even if photography is not racially biased and the issue is more technological rather than social, the problem should still be fixed.<p>I could also be wrong about all of this, and in reality dark skin is just as easy to photograph as light skin, but the article did not give a modern example of the racially biased &quot;Shirley card&quot;--except for facial recognition technology, but I didn&#x27;t really consider that photography in the traditional sense.<p>Edit:<p>While modern photography may not be racially biased, Kwindla does make an excellent point that machine learning is replicating the past mistakes of photography.
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neilv大约 6 年前
The 1995 Multicultural Shirley Card image in the article is beyond my skill, but I was a little confused by it, in a way that might be relevant to the article.<p>I&#x27;d expect it to let you calibrate for the black woman&#x27;s hair detail without blowing out the white dress, but this image on my screen (print? scan?) doesn&#x27;t seem to have done that.<p>It looks like the black woman&#x27;s hair is almost lost in this image, yet it looks like the photographer put a hair light on the blonde woman, and not on the black woman.<p>(Lighting: In the reflections in their eyes, it looks like two studio lights. A narrow hair light for the blonde, from camera left, might be a third. Also looks like a backdrop light behind, which might also be doing that small hint of rear lighting on camera right of the black woman&#x27;s hair, which emphasizes that the rest of the hair isn&#x27;t lit as well as it could be.)<p>(Outfit exposure: The gray outfit might be Gray Card gray, and you can also compare it to the white outfit. The black dress looks hopeless for exposure, at least in this print&#x2F;scan.)<p>(Focus: The blonde head looks in a bit softer focus, which might be accidental or glamorous.)
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Chris2048大约 6 年前
Can someone explain the following,<p>The author says: instead of seeking a solution, the technician had decided that my body was somehow unsuitable for the stage&quot;<p>But the technician said: &quot;We have a problem. Your jacket is lighter than your face, That’s going to be a problem for lighting&quot;<p>In what sense did the technician decide the author should be removed from the stage, and seek no other solution?
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philwelch大约 6 年前
For an illustration of how bad photography used to be, consider this photograph of the 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;sport&#x2F;2017&#x2F;apr&#x2F;20&#x2F;craig-hodges-michael-jordan-nba-chicago-bulls#img-2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;sport&#x2F;2017&#x2F;apr&#x2F;20&#x2F;craig-hodges-m...</a><p>You can barely make out Michael Jordan&#x27;s facial features. <i>Michael Jordan</i>, in a <i>team photograph of the 1990&#x2F;91 Chicago Bulls</i>.<p>The lesson here is to design technology so it works for everyone, not just people like you. Sometimes it&#x27;s a matter of literal skin color, sometimes it&#x27;s a question of physical size and shape or abilities.
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dusted大约 6 年前
This is interesting, I&#x27;ve always thought that makers of image capture equipment were striving to create technology to capture the world, as it is, without any bias towards any particular subject. Maybe, in a way they were, and they simply went for the lowest hanging fruit first? or maybe they simply put most effort where they believed that there would be most gain for least effort. The reason why they started at one point is not really important, the important thing is that they continue to strive to improve. Not because some group of people are excluded, but because, from a technical standpoint, they&#x27;re not done before they can capture and display an accurate, neutral, non-biased, factual representation of reality. Same goes for audio, I&#x27;m sure getting voice right had priority over music, and that some styles of music had priority over others, but, we&#x27;re not done before all SOUND, not just music, can be captured and represented accurately.
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dandare大约 6 年前
As fun of darker skin adult models, I always found it annoying how most adult videos mishandle dark skin. I always thought there must be something inherent in the technology that makes it not optimized for darker skins, especially in the hands of less skilled cameramen.<p>I hope no one will be offended by my comment, I mean it factually.
SpaceInvader大约 6 年前
Is there any way to read that not being logged in?
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haihaibye大约 6 年前
The people who invented the tech (US&#x2F;Europe&#x2F;Japan) optimised it for consumers around them.<p>If darker skinned people had invented it, or had been a richer consumer group things would have been different - to think otherwise you&#x27;d have to think greedy capitalists would give up piles of cash to be racist.<p>Why hate on inventors who create something cool just because it doesn&#x27;t quite work as well for all groups of people?<p>Surely this also left a gap in the market - someone could have optimized film for darker skin tones and made a lot of money?
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patrickg_zill大约 6 年前
Take a raking kind of light, and shine it on a beige to brown colored wall, so that the light will be stronger on one side and gradually fade in intensity (that is, less reflected light) across the field of view.<p>Now place a different shade of brown upholstered chair, in front of this wall.<p>Take a photo using the Hasselblad X1D, currently considered to have the most accurate color of mainstream cameras.<p>Now try to print it accurately, even with the best quality paper and a high end inkjet printer.<p>Even master printmakers will struggle with it.<p>Why?